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960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,795
1,674
Destin, FL
Any chance that 120 hz refresh rate could cause eye strain? Noticed that if I read on my ipp 10.5 for more than about 20 minutes, my eyes get tired and I develop a headache. Reading on my ipp 9.7 was always as good as reading on my kindle.
Turn the brightness down. 120Hz is too fast for human eyes to detect. The 50Hz range of yesteryear was the one that messed with many people. 60Hz seems to be the sweet spot that is above our capacity to notice. 120Hz is doubly so.

Most eyestrain cases I have seen with iPads involved iPads with the brightness cranked to maximum. The new iPad is brighter than ever before. Crank it back to 50%, or as I would recommend as low as you can tolerate, without straining and you should be good to go.

Been staring at iPads for at least 10 hours a day for over six years.
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I thought the new iPad used the slower refresh rates with static screens like reading and only increased refresh rate when needed. Reading should use the slower rate unless you are scrolling at the same time and that would give me a headache.
This is a valid point. The new iPad Pro does have a dynamic refresh rate that can fall back to 24Hz, if I remember properly. This could indeed cause eye strain. Hmmmm. Something for me to investigate.
 
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casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
7,599
5,770
Horsens, Denmark
Turn the brightness down. 120Hz is too fast for human eyes to detect. The 50Hz range of yesteryear was the one that messed with many people. 60Hz seems to be the sweet spot that is above our capacity to notice. 120Hz is doubly so.

Frankly not true. Fighter pilots can determine the model and make of a plane, seeing only the wing for a 1/1,000th of a second.
There's a difference between our capacity to detect something, and how the experience is. As someone else pointed out, since LED-LCDs don't flicker, but instead produce a constant light source, where the refresh rate is the update rate for the content, not the light source, it'll give a nice experience looking at it, almost regardless of refresh rate, but the fluidity of the motion will be impacted.
 

cap7ainclu7ch

macrumors 6502
Jun 30, 2010
454
513
Could we be looking at some defective units here? The whole sharpness thing seems to be the problem and could totally cause headaches when your eyes are trying to constantly focus.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,795
1,674
Destin, FL
Frankly not true. Fighter pilots can determine the model and make of a plane, seeing only the wing for a 1/1,000th of a second.
There's a difference between our capacity to detect something, and how the experience is. As someone else pointed out, since LED-LCDs don't flicker, but instead produce a constant light source, where the refresh rate is the update rate for the content, not the light source, it'll give a nice experience looking at it, almost regardless of refresh rate, but the fluidity of the motion will be impacted.
Funny that you mention that statistic. You probably failed to notice where I live and work. You are incorrect in most of your reply. You are also out of context with my reply.
 
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casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
7,599
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Horsens, Denmark
Funny that you mention that statistic. You probably failed to notice where I live and work. You are incorrect in most of your reply. You are also out of context with my reply.


I don't know so much about Florida I must admit, and where you work I don't think I have any chance of knowing?
In any case, care to elaborate on how I'm wrong? – Not as in a snarky way, I'd just like to learn :)
 

Komb.at

macrumors newbie
Jun 19, 2017
1
0
I have noticed this eye strain as well and so far a cannot really explain it. But i have a new theory: i may have developed a habit of reading WHILE scrolling. Now on my old ipad air 1 this wasn't really possible unless i either scrolled really slowly or in fast and big chunks. I think the 120 Hz are just enough to make the text readable, but also slow enough to be hard on the eyes at certain scrolling speeds. I'll spend a day or two where i forbid myself simultaneous reading and scrolling.

I could bevery wrong though....
 

MarkB786

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 20, 2016
755
1,304
USA
Not a brightness issue for me. Hard to explain, but eyes just have a more difficult time focusing on text. I use my iPad for working on MS Office documents, writing reports, and for reading journals, newspapers, kindle books, etc. Not for games or graphics. Again, no trouble on my last few iPads. First time I have experienced this.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,795
1,674
Destin, FL
I don't know so much about Florida I must admit, and where you work I don't think I have any chance of knowing?
In any case, care to elaborate on how I'm wrong? – Not as in a snarky way, I'd just like to learn :)
Certainly, the stat you used about fighter pilots identifying an aircraft in as little as 1/1000th of a second is based on persistence of vision and little to do with 'frames per second' or refresh rate.

My reply was snarky, and I apologize. I do not wish this to become a technical discussion on vision, but just to let the OP know that most of the time, eye fatigue is caused by the brightness cranked up to maximum on mobile devices. 50% is probably bright enough for most, will increase you battery life and you should feel an immediate effect on effort of vision.
 
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MarkB786

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 20, 2016
755
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USA
...but just to let the OP know that most of the time, eye fatigue is caused by the brightness cranked up to maximum on mobile devices. 50% is probably bright enough for most, will increase you battery life and you should feel an immediate effect on effort of vision.

Noted. I suppose with the bigger screen and more nits, I will try turning the brightness down while reading to see if that helps. I am used to running my ipp 9.7 at 75%+, but maybe a lower brightness is now in order.
 

casperes1996

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2014
7,599
5,770
Horsens, Denmark
Certainly, the stat you used about fighter pilots identifying an aircraft in as little as 1/1000th of a second is based on persistence of vision and little to do with 'frames per second' or refresh rate.

Could you elaborate on the difference here? The recognition still happens at that speed, so I don't see how it's different?
Thanks for info :)
 

Perene

macrumors 6502a
Jun 29, 2015
835
321
Netherealm
I am used to running my ipp 9.7 at 75%+, but maybe a lower brightness is now in order.
75%? There's your answer.

I think 20-30% is more than enough, except when watching movies, that's when I recommend turning Night Shift off and increasing brightness. Also try to read with a black background and white text (if you want to use an ebook reader, try "FoxIt PDF", it has this setting), this will reduce the amount of light spread by your display.

Another thing is, you want to make every attempt to avoid ceiling lights because no matter how warm or dim a ceiling light is, the location of the light source is alerting - just like how the sun is probably the most alerting and energizing when it's at its highest point in the sky. Even bathroom lights that are high up on the wall can be alerting due to their high location. The least alerting light source locations are at eye level while you're standing or lower. Think about the location of the sun while it's about to set.

I strongly recommend this solution:
https://www.howtogeek.com/213464/ho...le-watching-tv-and-gaming-with-bias-lighting/

Having a light on behind your monitor, away from you but not located in a place that can be easily spotted by your eyes while using the iPAD, greatly reduces eyestrain at night.

And turn "automatic brightness" off, it won't help if you want to do this.
 
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AppleRobert

macrumors 603
Nov 12, 2012
5,729
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75%? There's your answer.

I think 20-30% is more than enough, except when watching movies, that's when I recommend turning Night Shift off and increasing brightness. Also try to read with a black background and white text (if you want to use an ebook reader, try "FoxIt PDF", it has this setting), this will reduce the amount of light spread by your display.

Another thing is, you want to make every attempt to avoid ceiling lights because no matter how warm or dim a ceiling light is, the location of the light source is alerting - just like how the sun is probably the most alerting and energizing when it's at its highest point in the sky. Even bathroom lights that are high up on the wall can be alerting due to their high location. The least alerting light source locations are at eye level while you're standing or lower. Think about the location of the sun while it's about to set.

I strongly recommend this solution:
https://www.howtogeek.com/213464/ho...le-watching-tv-and-gaming-with-bias-lighting/

Having a light on behind your monitor, away from you but not located in a place that can be easily spotted by your eyes while using the iPAD, greatly reduces eyestrain at night.

And turn "automatic brightness" off, it won't help if you want to do this.

Geez, I have just started using my iPad with a lamp light needed now as nightfall approaches. I was starting to get a headache and the lamp on my left side was visible to mostly my left eye. The lamp is now totally behind me and where do I send my payment to you instead of getting my vision checked by a doctor. :)
 
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scupking

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2010
797
395
I notice that the pro 10.5 will go dimmer then my air 2 when both set to the lowest brightness. I just don't get this eye strain thing. I have had the iPad 3, mini 1, mini 2, air 1( returned for a bad yellow screen), air 2 and now pro 10.5. Never had an issue with any other iPad or any other screen I can think of. I will play around with it for a few more days.
 

MisterEd

macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2006
306
8
It was really strange to see this thread, as I thought I was just having problems with my own eyes.

I’m having the same problem as others in this thread who talk about strained eyes, and after trying to continue regardless it’s caused headache and some weird kind of dizziness.

I’ve done quite a bit of reading on mine now, and the only way I can describe it is as if I can’t quite focus on stuff properly. Which doesn’t make any sense, as the screen seems perfectly sharp to me and everything on this device looks clear and stunning. It’s almost like some kind of phasing or perhaps the variable refresh rate is causing it. When I look at text it’s definitely clear, but my eyes are straining for some weird reason. Super strange.

I’ll continue experimenting for the next few days but it seems like I’ll have to return the iPad at this point.
 

Perene

macrumors 6502a
Jun 29, 2015
835
321
Netherealm
Geez, I have just started using my iPad with a lamp light needed now as nightfall approaches. I was starting to get a headache and the lamp on my left side was visible to mostly my left eye. The lamp is now totally behind me and where do I send my payment to you instead of getting my vision checked by a doctor. :)
This is how my bedroom looks like at 4:50 PM
http://imgur.com/a/j0nW6

I am capable of using the iPAD in the bed or in a table I am going to install next to the wardrobe without any eye strain. Bias lighting is the way to go. I can also use this LCD from the image, since the photos make the light from the lampshade appear to be much brighter than it really is. The trick is to light the entire room without at any moment you been able to look directly into the lamp, which must be hidden from your sight. You also need to calculate how much light is needed for each room, click here for more details. In the Imgur link there's only one LED with 803 lumens and the room has 10.64 m². I prefer warm-white (3000K) despite what that article says. Warm could be better in the evening so as not to upset your sleep pattern. Cool light would be telling your brain that it is daytime and time to work which is not what you need.

If we're talking about extended nighttime use, warm color temperatures really are healthier than cool ones. Warm light (not just LEDs, but of any lighting device) is going to have a lower percentage of blue and green wavelengths. Blue and green wavelengths severely block melatonin production at night, leading to many of the maladies associated with shift work syndrome.

There are other things that I recommend to reduce eye strain, such as visiting your doctor to get new prescription for your eyeglasses - after a few years the anti-reflective coating is no longer there. Get a new anti-reflective treatment from a reputable brand. I have myopia, and doing this after ditching my old glasses improved my experience while spending some time using the iPAD. I don't recommend a coating specially developed to block blue light because you can't turn this off (unless you don't use the glasses) and it appears the screens look like they have Night Shift on 24/7.

Using good (also from a known brand) sunglasses that block glare during the day... killing all the lights inside the bedroom when you are going to sleep (it has to be in total darkness...) will help, too. And about reducing brightness, you need to do this not only in your iPAD, it has to be done in all eletronic devices.

When the Airpods were released some people complained about the same symptoms that are mentioned here about this new iPAD:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpods-and-headache-ear-pain.2022765/page-5#post-24518901

It turns out they are more sensitive to Bluetooth, and the above link says that if your health isn't ideal then you may be less prone to accept how the Airpods affect YOU. In other words, some feel this way because they have been subjected to "abuse" and aren't equipped to deal with this new technology as others have.

Not many people complain about the Airpods, and I haven't felt (after all this time) the side effects mentioned by these few. I suspect this is also the case for the iPAD Pro 10.5. There are many ways in which we can get eye strain, and testing effectively if the new screen from the iPAD is the sole culprit won't be possible if we don't pay attention to everything I mentioned before.

I suspect even in ideal conditions we will need to adapt ourselves to how this new screen works. This isn't the first time someone complains about 120Hz
http://www.overclock.net/t/1528094/120hz-eye-strain
 
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GreedPanic

macrumors newbie
Jun 20, 2017
1
0
The most important thing for smooth motion is a consistent framerate. The worst thing is going from a high framerate to a low framerate, it is visually jarring and can cause problems like people are describing, eye strain, fatigue, or motion sickness. Sometime it's better to run at a smooth 60hz (or even 30hz) than jitter back and forth between 120hz<>60hz. Perhaps this is a fundamental problem with their adaptive framerate solution. Certain apps like web browsers just can't guarantee consistent rendering times, javascript code can execute at any time and new complex objects can be revealed as you scroll. It would be best if apple provided a per-app frame rate limiter instead of a global switch.
 

AppleRobert

macrumors 603
Nov 12, 2012
5,729
1,133
Wow, any light more dominant on one side for either eye gives me eye strain or fatigue or even feels like a headache is coming on.

Nothing wrong with my 10.5 in my case now, gotta watch out for the lighting I’m using my iPad in. Learn something new every day I suppose, just wish I new this sooner.
 

baypharm

macrumors 68000
Nov 15, 2007
1,951
973
I have noticed the same thing. It is not there on my ipad air. But this new 10.5 inch unit sure does cause eye problems. And I can't figure why. The text is sharper, it has anti-reflective coating which helps with glare (though I am not a fan of this coating), and it's brighter. I had to return mine today. Gone back to my Air. No problems with that one.
 

MarkB786

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 20, 2016
755
1,304
USA
I have noticed the same thing. It is not there on my ipad air. But this new 10.5 inch unit sure does cause eye problems. And I can't figure why. The text is sharper, it has anti-reflective coating which helps with glare (though I am not a fan of this coating), and it's brighter. I had to return mine today. Gone back to my Air. No problems with that one.

It is a mystery. Even after turning down my brightness and using my 10.5 exclusively for the past three days, the headache is there. When I go back to my 9.7 ipp, it feels like a major relief and I enjoy using it. No strain, no headache. The words seem to naturally float off the screen. On the 10.7, the words feel like they are trapped in the screen. I don't know how else to explain it.
 
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aypues

macrumors regular
Feb 25, 2012
159
21
San Diego
Have you guys with eye strain tried turning off the 120 frame rate in settings?
It didnt help me a whole lot. I think for me the problem is the anti reflective coating is kind of pink or something making colors weird. I can't focus well either. I actually prefer my iPad 4 display.
Also, fingerprints are majorly visible on the 10.5" screen. I barely see them on my iPad 4 and they're everywhere. On the 10.5 the fingerprints were very pronounced.
 

MarkB786

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 20, 2016
755
1,304
USA
Have you guys with eye strain tried turning off the 120 frame rate in settings?
It didnt help me a whole lot. I think for me the problem is the anti reflective coating is kind of pink or something making colors weird. I can't focus well either. I actually prefer my iPad 4 display.
Also, fingerprints are majorly visible on the 10.5" screen. I barely see them on my iPad 4 and they're everywhere. On the 10.5 the fingerprints were very pronounced.

Going back to 60hz hasn't helped me either. I also noticed that the fingerprints change the shading on white pages. At first I thougth I had an uneven display, but it was just lots of fingerprints.
 

darkarn

macrumors 6502a
Apr 8, 2017
839
343
Singapore
Now that this is mentioned, I am kinda worried. I do have issues with framerates in games, which forced me to quit PC gaming for now especially FPSes. Let me dig up my threads (in other tech forums) and see they are of any relevance here
 

Deacon-Blues

macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2012
670
853
California
I was about to get a 10.5 but this eye strain issue is freakin me out. I haven't had eye strain since 2007, and I damn sure don't want to experience it again if i can avoid it. This thread needs 100% more poll.
 
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