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Demo units are hand picked, run at 100% brightness and are under bright shop lights. That said I remember people saying for the last two years that the demo models all look perfect, my local store has 6 tables of phones and they all looked different so I don't know what people are seeing?

I think the idea that's building that maybe software will bring a "fix" is about as likely as the old idea that the screen glue needs to cure to fix yellow displays.
 
Yes that’s what I’m hoping for. If anyone is interested, my settings for the 11 Pro were as follows:

Reduce white point: On, 70%
Reduce motion: On
Increase Contrast: On
Require attention for FaceID: Off
Attention aware features: Off

Increase contrast seemed to help me a lot on the 11 Pro so I’d recommend trying that before returning. That’s in Settings > Accessibility > Display & Text Size > Increase Contrast.

Timeconsumer, thank you very much for your recommended settings to get over PWM sensitivity. I got the 12 mini which is my first apple OLED iphone, and I never thought PWM would affect me, but it initially did (my settings have been True Tone and auto brightness since 2015). The flicker below 50% brightness was hurting my eye balls, but after turning off auto brightness, leaving at 50% brightness and your settings I’m not getting any issues.
I feel sadness for all the other members with PWM sensitivity who had to return their iPhone 12s though, that really sucks big time but hopefully as the whole line up is OLED, more people will complain about it and force Apple to acknowledge this very real problem and do something about it.
 
Demo units are hand picked, run at 100% brightness and are under bright shop lights. That said I remember people saying for the last two years that the demo models all look perfect, my local store has 6 tables of phones and they all looked different so I don't know what people are seeing?

I think the idea that's building that maybe software will bring a "fix" is about as likely as the old idea that the screen glue needs to cure to fix yellow displays.
I think we’re all grasping at straws and seeing what we want to see
 
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Crazy theory: maybe they’re testing it on demo units to check if any degradation occurs to the display over time before releasing it as a software feature?

That’s really the only reason I could think of as to why they would only have it on select demo units.
I think that’s a massive reach. Apple strikes me as the kind of company who does their testing behind closed doors, not using demo phones in a shop. Not only that, but I wonder if that could potentially set themselves up for a lawsuit due to the demo phones not being the same as the retail, if that is indeed the case. People in America will sue over anything.
 
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My black iPhone 11 arrived today and I'm in love. The screen is sooo much brighter than the iPhone 12, and not yellow at all. Yes, the resolution on the 12 is better, and it's a tiny bit smaller, but my eyes are happy, my head doesn't hurt and my bank account is feeling a tiny bit better, too. I packed up the 12 and it's going back tomorrow. Good riddance!
 
My black iPhone 11 arrived today and I'm in love. The screen is sooo much brighter than the iPhone 12, and not yellow at all. Yes, the resolution on the 12 is better, and it's a tiny bit smaller, but my eyes are happy, my head doesn't hurt and my bank account is feeling a tiny bit better, too. I packed up the 12 and it's going back tomorrow. Good riddance!
haha. glad to hear it! I am sure you won't be disappointed at all with the 11- it really is a great phone. Same amount of RAM as the 12, negligible difference in camera image quality, as you said almost the same size- and it is difficult to really see any difference in display quality between the two even though the 11 is LCD.
 
Hi all, long time site user, first time posting.

Received my iPhone 12 mini on launch day. Been using a 6s since 2016, so the mini was exactly what I was looking for to upgrade. Love the phone, especially the size, weight, etc, so was delighted initially.

Going to sleep Saturday night, I couldn't understand why my eyes hurt so much. Further digging into this on Sunday/Monday lead me to this discussion, and I've been following closely since. As I've come from a 6s, I've never owned an OLED screen before. I'm pretty certain my issue is from PWM (which I had never heard of before this).

I like to have my brightness pretty low, so going by what I've read, the flickering was at its strongest point initially. I never experienced headaches or dizziness as some on here have, but just a really uncomfortable, dull pain in my eyes. I adjusted my settings as suggested in this topic, and it has definitely improved, but my eyes are still not right and I'm not sure if its because they still hurt from getting aggravated so much initially (a totally new sensation, I've never had eye trouble, thankfully), or because the PWM is still aggravating my eyes every time I use the phone, even with the best settings to curb it somewhat.

I'm resigned to having to return the phone, which I'm gutted about. But I'm not messing around with my eye health. Interested to see what anyone else does who was gonna give it a week or so. Bottom line for me is, the flickering is always there, so can't be good long term to try to 'adapt' to it. I took a slow-mo video on my 6s of a white browser screen on the mini, and the flickering is pretty crazy. Seeing as its a widely known issue with OLED, its disappointing that the new line up has no LCD options.
 
Hi all, long time site user, first time posting.

Received my iPhone 12 mini on launch day. Been using a 6s since 2016, so the mini was exactly what I was looking for to upgrade. Love the phone, especially the size, weight, etc, so was delighted initially.

Going to sleep Saturday night, I couldn't understand why my eyes hurt so much. Further digging into this on Sunday/Monday lead me to this discussion, and I've been following closely since. As I've come from a 6s, I've never owned an OLED screen before. I'm pretty certain my issue is from PWM (which I had never heard of before this).

I like to have my brightness pretty low, so going by what I've read, the flickering was at its strongest point initially. I never experienced headaches or dizziness as some on here have, but just a really uncomfortable, dull pain in my eyes. I adjusted my settings as suggested in this topic, and it has definitely improved, but my eyes are still not right and I'm not sure if its because they still hurt from getting aggravated so much initially (a totally new sensation, I've never had eye trouble, thankfully), or because the PWM is still aggravating my eyes every time I use the phone, even with the best settings to curb it somewhat.

I'm resigned to having to return the phone, which I'm gutted about. But I'm not messing around with my eye health. Interested to see what anyone else does who was gonna give it a week or so. Bottom line for me is, the flickering is always there, so can't be good long term to try to 'adapt' to it. I took a slow-mo video on my 6s of a white browser screen on the mini, and the flickering is pretty crazy. Seeing as its a widely known issue with OLED, its disappointing that the new line up has no LCD options.
Welcome to the PWM-affected support group :cool:

Seriously though, I’d definitely suggest the 11/8+/SE 2020 if you’re looking for an upgrade (Especially from a 6s). You’re correct re: getting used to it, it doesn’t seem like there’s a way to just get used to it, you’re either okay with the flickering or you’re not.

The good news is that the screens are a lot better this year in terms of flickering, so hopefully we’ll see that trend continue in the future.
 
For those who have been doing some more scientific testing on this thread, what are your thoughts on the more detailed discussion of the 12 Pro's PWM here?: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...l-Smartphone-with-Retro-Styling.504562.0.html

They mention that surprisingly, around 21% brightness seems to be the sweet spot for the least discomfort from flicker for those that are sensitive. As I look at their images and read the description, I am struggling to quite understand this- is it the lower difference between the highs and lows on the curves measured with each flicker that is easier on the eyes, or is it something else about this "sweet spot" that makes it seemingly less problematic?

This is very interesting to me because on my LCD phones (7, 8+, 11) I always kept brightness around that 20%-25% range because I also get sore eyes from a display that is very bright.... but on my Mini (no way to know, but am assuming it is similar to what was found above with the 12 Pro), I have been keeping it at 50% and then lowering brightness with 80% reduce white point. I am going to try turning down reduce white point to default or turning it off, and setting brightness at what appears to be around 21% to see if that may seem OK. But I am just curious on the science of what is described on the Notebookcheck page noted above- to discuss it in layman's terms. :)
 
Does anyone have issues with Macbooks and iPad Pros?

I haven't been able to use Macbooks since apple switched to LED.

I can use non iPad Pros models. But iPad Pros give me the same effect as the OLED iPhones.
 
For those who have been doing some more scientific testing on this thread, what are your thoughts on the more detailed discussion of the 12 Pro's PWM here?: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple...l-Smartphone-with-Retro-Styling.504562.0.html

They mention that surprisingly, around 21% brightness seems to be the sweet spot for the least discomfort from flicker for those that are sensitive. As I look at their images and read the description, I am struggling to quite understand this- is it the lower difference between the highs and lows on the curves measured with each flicker that is easier on the eyes, or is it something else about this "sweet spot" that makes it seemingly less problematic?

This is very interesting to me because on my LCD phones (7, 8+, 11) I always kept brightness around that 20%-25% range because I also get sore eyes from a display that is very bright.... but on my Mini (no way to know, but am assuming it is similar to what was found above with the 12 Pro), I have been keeping it at 50% and then lowering brightness with 80% reduce white point. I am going to try turning down reduce white point to default or turning it off, and setting brightness at what appears to be around 21% to see if that may seem OK. But I am just curious on the science of what is described on the Notebookcheck page noted above- to discuss it in layman's terms. :)
Today I returned my mini 12. I’ve used different set ups as I posted those past days, used eye drops to “reset” my eye strain yo avoid rigged results , and my verdict is that it didn’t matter any kind of different configurations, brightness levels etc. Exposure to that kind of screen drove to ineludible eye strain and moderate headache within few hours of use.
I’m happy that some people are in the border regarding usability and can afford to enjoy some models or configurations, others like me just can’t.
It was a sad moment when I returned mini 12 since it’s all I ever wanted as a logical evolution for my OGSE. I’m torn between keeping it until it brokes or swallow a bigger size (11) and drown my love for small size, one handed smartphones
 
Today I returned my mini 12. I’ve used different set ups as I posted those past days, used eye drops to “reset” my eye strain yo avoid rigged results , and my verdict is that it didn’t matter any kind of different configurations, brightness levels etc. Exposure to that kind of screen drove to ineludible eye strain and moderate headache within few hours of use.
I’m happy that some people are in the border regarding usability and can afford to enjoy some models or configurations, others like me just can’t.
It was a sad moment when I returned mini 12 since it’s all I ever wanted as a logical evolution for my OGSE. I’m torn between keeping it until it brokes or swallow a bigger size (11) and drown my love for small size, one handed smartphones
So sorry to hear that. :(. I can feel the pain- I look at this little device and it is PERFECT in most ways, and I would be so disappointed as well to have to return it. Jury is still out for me on that....

I only use it in small spurts- anywhere from a couple of minutes to maybe 30 minutes if it is a longer session reading news or whatever. Did you find that you were OK in shorter sessions like that- and your symptoms really only came on with much longer use- such as an hour or more watching videos or something?
 
So sorry to hear that. :(. I can feel the pain- I look at this little device and it is PERFECT in most ways, and I would be so disappointed as well to have to return it. Jury is still out for me on that....

I only use it in small spurts- anywhere from a couple of minutes to maybe 30 minutes if it is a longer session reading news or whatever. Did you find that you were OK in shorter sessions like that- and your symptoms really only came on with much longer use- such as an hour or more watching videos or something?
Contrary to other people that claim eye strain and dizziness within a few moments or minutes of use, I need an hour or two to start feeling any harm. Problem is that it persists for some hours or days and if I keep using the phone, it won’t go away.

Regarding the use you give to it in short bursts: maybe it’s possible to do so, but I usually spend ~4 hours of screen on time on average, so not willing to spend 1000€ in a phone I’m not allowed to use extensively :(
 
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Contrary to other people that claim eye strain and dizziness within a few moments or minutes of use, I need an hour or two to start feeling any harm. Problem is that it persists for some hours or days and if I keep using the phone, it won’t go away.

Regarding the use you give to it in short bursts: maybe it’s possible to do so, but I usually spend ~4 hours of screen on time on average, so not willing to spend 1000€ in a phone I’m not allowed to use extensively :(
Yeah, last thing you would want is to spend that much on a beautiful phone only to feel you need to limit yourself, forcing yourself not to use it much. :(

Sorry again to hear that! I really wish Apple would do something about these displays, increasing the PWM frequency to really high numbers 500 or above which seems to be the magic number that is no longer problematic for sensitive people.
 
Yeah, last thing you would want is to spend that much on a beautiful phone only to feel you need to limit yourself, forcing yourself not to use it much. :(

Sorry again to hear that! I really wish Apple would do something about these displays, increasing the PWM frequency to really high numbers 500 or above which seems to be the magic number that is no longer problematic for sensitive people.
Sadly, I think we are out of luck and there wont be any LCD phones in the next years in Apple.

By the way, do you guys think 11 Pro is worth a try? I've read that it has 290 Hz and the youtuber zollotech claimed he didnt have isues with 11 pro and 11 pro max. Apple doesnt have 11 pro available anymore so I'd have to check for other stores that allow a very possible return of the product.
 
Sadly, I think we are out of luck and there wont be any LCD phones in the next years in Apple.

I think it would help it they went way up with the PWM frequency on their OLEDs. For example OnePlus can pull 458,7hz PWM ratings with displays on phones that cost half or 2/3 of the iPhone prices, so technically anything shouldn’t be keeping Apple in that 240-290hz range.
 
I think it would help it they went way up with the PWM frequency on their OLEDs. For example OnePlus can pull 458,7hz PWM ratings with displays on phones that cost half or 2/3 of the iPhone prices, so technically anything shouldn’t be keeping Apple in that 240-290hz range.
The answer behind that is likely that OnePlus has a slimmer profit margin than Apple- Apple does not want to cut into that fat bit of "gravy" with each phone. :(.
 
I think it would help it they went way up with the PWM frequency on their OLEDs. For example OnePlus can pull 458,7hz PWM ratings with displays on phones that cost half or 2/3 of the iPhone prices, so technically anything shouldn’t be keeping Apple in that 240-290hz range.
That'd be fantastic! I've already phoned, emailed and told shop workers about this PWD stuff to make them aware.
 
Sadly, I think we are out of luck and there wont be any LCD phones in the next years in Apple.

By the way, do you guys think 11 Pro is worth a try? I've read that it has 290 Hz and the youtuber zollotech claimed he didnt have isues with 11 pro and 11 pro max. Apple doesnt have 11 pro available anymore so I'd have to check for other stores that allow a very possible return of the product.
Zollotech also doesn’t have any issue with the iPhone 12 series either so, YMMV.
 
Does anyone have issues with Macbooks and iPad Pros?

I haven't been able to use Macbooks since apple switched to LED.

I can use non iPad Pros models. But iPad Pros give me the same effect as the OLED iPhones.
I had a 2016 MacBook for awhile and never had any issues. Does Apple have any LED MacBooks...I thought they were all LCD?

I use iPads extensively, including iPad Pro’s from 2015 - 2020. I have (thankfully) had no issues.

Apple LCDs have never been a problem for me, including more recent LCD devices with FaceID. It’s just their darn OLEDs that get me.
 
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I had a 2016 MacBook for awhile and never had any issues. Does Apple have any LED MacBooks...I thought they were all LCD?

I use iPads extensively, including iPad Pro’s from 2015 - 2020. I have (thankfully) had no issues.

Apple LCDs have never been a problem for me, including more recent LCD devices with FaceID. It’s just their darn OLEDs that get me.
LCD and LED are essentially the same thing with computer displays, they are LCD screens with LED backlights- that has been the case on laptops for many, many years. With TV's there was a difference back in the day when older LCD's had fluorescent bulbs for backlights vs. the LED TV's that had the same LCD screen, but had LED lights behind as backlights instead.

But on laptops, as far as I know it has always been LED lights for that backlight due to the small space there.

And yeah, those are not generally problematic for most people because they have no flicker like the newer OLED displays do.
 
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LCD and LED are essentially the same thing with computer displays, they are LCD screens with LED backlights- that has been the case on laptops for many, many years. With TV's there was a difference back in the day when older LCD's had fluorescent bulbs for backlights vs. the LED TV's that had the same LCD screen, but had LED lights behind as backlights instead.

But on laptops, as far as I know it has always been LED lights for that backlight due to the small space there.

And yeah, those are not generally problematic for most people because they have no flicker like the newer OLED displays do.
Earlier MacBooks and all iBooks and Powerbooks used CCFL backlights as well as most PCs from that era. They switched to LED sometime in 2007 I think. I had issues with the first LED models since they used PWM, but I never had an issue with my early 2013 MacBook Pro 15" Retina. Not sure if it used PWM but I didn't have an issue. The best laptop I have ever owned largely because of the display.
 
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