The display implementation on the iPad Pros and Air 4 is different than iPad 6th-8th gen.
I use the iPad 6th-8th gen with no issues.
But the iPad Pros give me an instant headache.
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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The display implementation on the iPad Pros and Air 4 is different than iPad 6th-8th gen.
I use the iPad 6th-8th gen with no issues.
But the iPad Pros give me an instant headache.
The timing was coincidental, but I'm not about to keep using the X if there's a chance it's impacting my health. I figure I'll know within a month if my existing eye issues are caused by the OLED screen in the X or not.
Ah, gotcha. Good call, better to play it safe than mess around (potentially) with your health.
This might be a crazy question, but for those who are more sensitive to the PWM- is there a chance that this can cause actual eye damage vs. just discomfort with eye strain and such? I stumbled across a website yesterday (admittedly it was a site advertising a product to minimize PWM flicker on computer monitors) that said besides eye strain and headaches, PWM can cause eye damage such as macular degeneration (which for those who do not know, is loss of eye sight in the middle of your eye that then advances outwards- generally only seen in older people 70+).
Has anyone else ever heard that before? I had not- and it seems to me to be quite a reach considering that there are millions upon millions of phones (and computer monitors) out there of all brands that use PWM for dimming, and you would think there would have been news stories about this if indeed that was something that was happening to some people.
Edit: I found the link, I was wrong it was not a 3rd party product site, but rather the Viewsonic monitor website mentioning that vision loss from Macular Degeneration is sort of the worst case scenario that heavy exposure to PWM can cause long-term (assuming when looking at a big monitor vs. a small phone display, but who knows):
www.viewsonic.com
Has anyone else ever heard that before? I had not- and it seems to me to be quite a reach considering that there are millions upon millions of phones (and computer monitors) out there of all brands that use PWM for dimming, and you would think there would have been news stories about this if indeed that was something that was happening to some people.
Edit: I found the link, I was wrong it was not a 3rd party product site, but rather the Viewsonic monitor website mentioning that vision loss from Macular Degeneration is sort of the worst case scenario that heavy exposure to PWM can cause long-term (assuming when looking at a big monitor vs. a small phone display, but who knows):
How Flicker-Free Monitors Contribute to Eye Health - ViewSonic Library
Flicker-free monitors are an important part of eye care in a world full of screens. Learn about how to protect your eyes with the right display.
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That's an extreme possibility, although it would most likely be in conjunction with other factors where the PWM screen only exasperates an underlying risk factor.
That's what I kind of figured given the bold claim.... and it would likely have to be on big computer monitors, where a large display is flickering a few feet from your face for many hours per day (such as in a work environment 8-10 hours per day) vs a little phone screen for maybe a couple hours per day. But it was interesting nonetheless to see that- and I wonder if the risk is moreso for those who are sensitive to PWM than for those who are not? (given that the body is reacting to it in those who are sensitive vs. those who are not)
My 23andme genetic test reports that I am at risk of developing exactly that disease, Macular Degeneration. Since the test is fairly accurate, it also predicts intolerance to gluten and lactose and I actually have both, I find that it may be more than a coincidence that I cannot bear pwm.
By any chance, has anyone else in this thread done a genetic test and can confirm a similar correlation?
That is interesting about the genetic test and the gluten/lactose intolerance as well as risk for Macular Degeneration. Is there some connection with gluten or lactose intolerance and Macular Degeneration?
I am not saying this based on any true scientific knowledge, but just from what little we have seen, it seems to make sense that if one is at risk for something like Macular Degeneration- that maybe something like PWM that is a little "hard" on the eyes might be good to avoid.
On a related note, my 12 Mini has not been too bad, causing me headaches or anything- but I do get some minor eye irritation (dryness, sometimes watery eyes, they feel warm with more than a few minutes' use of the phone), and I have to keep the brightness up at an uncomfortable level to try to mitigate the worst of the flicker.
All of that made me realize it is probably not worth dealing with even though I REALLY like this phone. I am going to start the return process and send it back to Apple, and will go back to using my 11 which is really a great phone in its own right. I feel better knowing it is LCD with none of this flicker to try to work around, and I see no difference between the two in image quality from the cameras or even really in the display (even though I know OLED is superior as far as resolution goes). I truly am impressed with how great the LCD is on the 11.
My only gripe on the 11 is how big it is. I will just continue with the 11 until maybe next year in hopes that Apple can implement DC dimming on their OLED displays or increase the PWM frequency to such a high level that it is not problematic for anyone.
This might be a crazy question, but for those who are more sensitive to the PWM- is there a chance that this can cause actual eye damage vs. just discomfort with eye strain and such? I stumbled across a website yesterday (admittedly it was a site advertising a product to minimize PWM flicker on computer monitors) that said besides eye strain and headaches, PWM can cause eye damage such as macular degeneration (which for those who do not know, is loss of eye sight in the middle of your eye that then advances outwards- generally only seen in older people 70+).
Has anyone else ever heard that before? I had not- and it seems to me to be quite a reach considering that there are millions upon millions of phones (and computer monitors) out there of all brands that use PWM for dimming, and you would think there would have been news stories about this if indeed that was something that was happening to some people.
Edit: I found the link, I was wrong it was not a 3rd party product site, but rather the Viewsonic monitor website mentioning that vision loss from Macular Degeneration is sort of the worst case scenario that heavy exposure to PWM can cause long-term (assuming when looking at a big monitor vs. a small phone display, but who knows):
How Flicker-Free Monitors Contribute to Eye Health - ViewSonic Library
Flicker-free monitors are an important part of eye care in a world full of screens. Learn about how to protect your eyes with the right display.
My eye vision is definitely getting worse, e.g. particularly during my driving, I can tell from the same distance, I couldn't recognize things as clearly as before...
One more observation, I went to the Apple store with my friend, I adjusted iPhone 12 screen's angle and I can immediately see the changing light and color from the screen, however my friend couldn't tell any change. It seems my eyes are more sensitive to something.
Welcome to the PWM-affected support group
Seriously though, I’d definitely suggest the 11/8+/SE 2020 if you’re looking for an upgrade (Especially from a 6s). You’re correct re: getting used to it, it doesn’t seem like there’s a way to just get used to it, you’re either okay with the flickering or you’re not.
The good news is that the screens are a lot better this year in terms of flickering, so hopefully we’ll see that trend continue in the future.
Do we have a PWM-affected support group? If yes, can you add me in? I hope to seek advice on how to maintain a good eye (brain) health while dealing with those screens going forward...
What I’ve read, there seems to be at least some kind of correlation between the refresh rate and the PWM flicker rate, so I’m somewhat hopeful that also the flicker could get less annoying with a higher refresh rate.
iPhone 12 mini owner here sensitive to this issue. Couple thoughts: First, I'm very sensitive to motion sickness, particularly in a vehicle or while on a boat. At one point I bought a DLP projector and had to return it because I could easily detect the rainbow effect and couldn't watch a movie without feeling nauseous. I would hazard that both of the above are correlated to PWM sensitivity, and I'm curious if other people here have similar sensitivities.
My response to the PWM of the phone may be less extreme than others, as it induces dizziness but not quite nausea. Even so, it's been nasty to the point I was definitely planning to return the phone. However, I have been able to minimize the problem by following the advice of another poster - set the brightness to 100%, white point to 70%, high contrast on, Auto Brightness off. Additionally I have True Tone enabled and Night Shift on. I turned off Face ID awareness, though I'm skeptical that matters. So far, with these settings, I've been able to go a full day of heavy usage without issue.
One thing to be aware of is that iOS apparently forces a lower brightness if the device gets hot, but doesn't give you any indication of this. It effectively caps the physical brightness level, but the brightness bar will still show at 100% for example. For me, this happens while charging. You can tell if it's doing this by changing the brightness setting and seeing if it actually brightens the device at all points. I've seen it cap at varying levels - approximately 50%, 75% and 90%. Lower brightness means a lower PWM rate, which makes the problem more acute for me.
My response to the PWM of the phone may be less extreme than others, as it induces dizziness but not quite nausea. Even so, it's been nasty to the point I was definitely planning to return the phone. However, I have been able to minimize the problem by following the advice of another poster - set the brightness to 100%, white point to 70%, high contrast on, Auto Brightness off. Additionally I have True Tone enabled and Night Shift on. I turned off Face ID awareness, though I'm skeptical that matters. So far, with these settings, I've been able to go a full day of heavy usage without issue.
One thing to be aware of is that iOS apparently forces a lower brightness if the device gets hot, but doesn't give you any indication of this. It effectively caps the physical brightness level, but the brightness bar will still show at 100% for example. For me, this happens while charging. You can tell if it's doing this by changing the brightness setting and seeing if it actually brightens the device at all points. I've seen it cap at varying levels - approximately 50%, 75% and 90%. Lower brightness means a lower PWM rate, which makes the problem more acute for me.
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I changed my mind at the last minute to upgrade to the 12 Pro.
Apple’s online store reflects a December 18th-28th delivery date, but a few retailers have the Pacific Blue 128GB model in-stock so I’m optimistic it will ship sooner. If not, I may switch back to the iPhone 12 to make sure I’m able to use the new iPhones this year.
Apple’s online store reflects a December 18th-28th delivery date, but a few retailers have the Pacific Blue 128GB model in-stock so I’m optimistic it will ship sooner. If not, I may switch back to the iPhone 12 to make sure I’m able to use the new iPhones this year.
PWM aside, oddly enough Notebookcheck found the color accuracy on iPhone 12 to be ~ 30% better than iPhone 12 Pro.
This could simply be due to panel variances though. iPhone 12 and 12 Pro are close enough that I’m still having a difficult time choosing.
I don’t think I’ll regret stepping up(?) to the Pro model if it ships sooner rather than later. There are still some arguments to be made for the lighter aluminum build of the 12, and immediate availability.
This could simply be due to panel variances though. iPhone 12 and 12 Pro are close enough that I’m still having a difficult time choosing.
I don’t think I’ll regret stepping up(?) to the Pro model if it ships sooner rather than later. There are still some arguments to be made for the lighter aluminum build of the 12, and immediate availability.
For what it’s worth, Zollotech on YouTube had issues with the PWM on iPhone X/XS, which he says were improved on iPhone 11 Pro and all but eliminated on iPhone 12 Pro.
I’ve had to skip OLED models for the past three generations so I’m willing to give iPhone 12 a try.
I’ve had to skip OLED models for the past three generations so I’m willing to give iPhone 12 a try.
The flicker is still pretty bad on my mini- slow mo video of it even at the “sweet spot” 50% brightness looks like a strobe light.
It seems like the Mini has the worst flicker out of all the new iPhones.
There have been people in this thread that weren’t able to use the Mini that have no problem with the 6.1” iPhone 12.
I'm going to keep the 12 mini. With the settings I mentioned I can tolerate the screen, but it's still a little uncomfortable and inconvenient. I'm not the type who upgrades every year, but I'll be trading this in if a successor to the mini comes out with the problem fixed or reduced. If I hadn't destroyed my 2016 SE, I'd go back to using it.
How do you figure 50% brightness is the sweet spot? I thought there were some measurements provided earlier in the thread that suggest 100% or near that is the best setting to reduce the variation in brightness from PWM. In my unscientific experience, I get dizzier at 50% than I do at 100%.
I wish I had a better understanding both how the phone behaves and specifically what factors induce illness in us sensitive folk.
My current understanding of the phone behavior is:
1) PWM is fixed at 226.2HZ, regardless of brightness (on the iPhone 12)
2) Brightness setting affects the duty cycle, meaning how long the LEDs are lit per cycle
And for which factors induce illness, my understanding is:
1) The rate of flickering
2) The variation in brightness for each subpixel per cycle (since they don't fully black out except at very dim settings)
I wouldn't be surprised if my understanding of phone behavior is off and the brightness setting affects both rate of PWM and duty cycle. This article about PWM on the 12 Pro suggests maybe this is the case.
Anyway, related to these questions is the matter of whether it's better to dim the display by reducing white point or if that's a waste of time and we should just lower brightness. Based on some slow-motion captures I've made (and just logically thinking about it from a developer's perspective) it looks like white point simply transforms the color of the pixels, while brightness is communicated uniquely to the display controller and actually changes PWM or duty cycle. If that is the case, then I would assume changing white point is the better method, as lower PWM rate seems to be a major factor in inducing illness.