Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[jm31828]

Somewhere in this or another thread it was measured in the regular 12 that 50% is where the least flicker occurred and that the depth of the flicker (sorry not the best scientific terminology) was the least.
I played around with it at different brightness settings and lower than 50% was brutal on the eyes... I couldn’t tolerate higher than 50% either- not sure about the flicker but that is too bright for me- 75% brightness with reduce white point all the way up to 95% was still way too bright for my sensitive eyes.

With all of this compromise and still getting some eye irritation I decided I need to return it. Really a bummer as I think this is the best phone I’ve ever had- I absolutely love the look, feel, and size of it (the mini).

 

[dan98]

iPhone 12 mini owner here sensitive to this issue. Couple thoughts: First, I'm very sensitive to motion sickness, particularly in a vehicle or while on a boat. At one point I bought a DLP projector and had to return it because I could easily detect the rainbow effect and couldn't watch a movie without feeling nauseous. I would hazard that both of the above are correlated to PWM sensitivity, and I'm curious if other people here have similar sensitivities.

My response to the PWM of the phone may be less extreme than others, as it induces dizziness but not quite nausea. Even so, it's been nasty to the point I was definitely planning to return the phone. However, I have been able to minimize the problem by following the advice of another poster - set the brightness to 100%, white point to 70%, high contrast on, Auto Brightness off. Additionally I have True Tone enabled and Night Shift on. I turned off Face ID awareness, though I'm skeptical that matters. So far, with these settings, I've been able to go a full day of heavy usage without issue.

One thing to be aware of is that iOS apparently forces a lower brightness if the device gets hot, but doesn't give you any indication of this. It effectively caps the physical brightness level, but the brightness bar will still show at 100% for example. For me, this happens while charging. You can tell if it's doing this by changing the brightness setting and seeing if it actually brightens the device at all points. I've seen it cap at varying levels - approximately 50%, 75% and 90%. Lower brightness means a lower PWM rate, which makes the problem more acute for me.

I'm also prone to motion sickness - not so much recently, but when I was a kid, I'd be the first one to be hurling during a car journey or flight.

I firmly believe that PWM messes with the balance system for many people, causing BPPV type effects.
Ignoring the symptoms can cause more permanent damage in my experience.
Symptoms like this should never be ignored if you value your health.

Doesn't running the phone at 100% brightness cause the battery to get zapped in no time?
Regardless for me the new Mini is a no-go. Definitely a pity - but I'll be sticking with the SE1 for the foreseeable.

 

[VadimVV]

I have seen a few posts with different flicker measurements on the 12 Pro, which is quite confusing. Yesterday I received my 12 Pro, of course I measured it right away, the results were very unpleasantly surprised.

Brightness level - pulsation coefficient (flicker index)
1. 100 % -7.3 %
2. 75 % - 7.9 %
3. 50 % - 8.9 %
4. 25 % - 11.4 %
5. 20 % - 41.4 %
6. 10 % - 99.6 %
7. 0 % - 74.5 %

The pulsation coefficient starts to increase dramatically below 25% brightness and this is very different from what I measured in the store on the first day of sales.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/iphone-12-is-flicker-free-dc-dimming.2262673/
I even started to think that what was discussed in this topic may be true - that in stores, phones have different software settings and have a very high brightness, or dc-dimming is used.

I went to the store again and again measured the 12 and 12 Pro screens. The 12 Pro showed similar results as my phone, while the regular 12 still ranged from 6.9% to 9.36%.

What is the reason, I don't know, different screen providers, different software settings in stores or something else. For me, this year the story is over, because 12 Pro, even at brightness levels above 25%, causes all the same symptoms as previous OLED iPhones - literally in 30-40 minutes doing the settings, I got eye strain and a headache. For myself, I made a decision that while the device flickers more than 1%, I will not buy it. I'll take regular 11 and return 12 Pro.

Good luck guys, I hope that the advancement of technology will still allow us to use modern phones and not get stuck with our SE, 7, 8, 11. Maybe next year.

Below are some photos with regular 12 measurements in the store.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I'm still annoyed by this situation. I genuinely don't want an 11 or SE 2020 - these are not premium devices and have a shopping list of negatives for me. They feel cheaper than my 7 plus especially with their lower resolutions.

I've informed Apple every year after using the X, XS, 11Pro, 12Pro that the PWM is killing my eyes and I'm sure other's are as well. From people disputing the X having an issue and there not being any articles on the web talking about PWM - fast forward 4 years later and this is now widely discussed and a problem for many of us. But being just 10% or less of the consumer base clearly means that manufactures are not going to resolve this issue. So we have to wait for the OLED trend to die and Mini/micro LED kicks in for when they want to sell us something "new" and shiney!

 

[jm31828]

I have seen a few posts with different flicker measurements on the 12 Pro, which is quite confusing. Yesterday I received my 12 Pro, of course I measured it right away, the results were very unpleasantly surprised.

Brightness level - pulsation coefficient (flicker index)
1. 100 % -7.3 %
2. 75 % - 7.9 %
3. 50 % - 8.9 %
4. 25 % - 11.4 %
5. 20 % - 41.4 %
6. 10 % - 99.6 %
7. 0 % - 74.5 %

The pulsation coefficient starts to increase dramatically below 25% brightness and this is very different from what I measured in the store on the first day of sales.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/iphone-12-is-flicker-free-dc-dimming.2262673/
I even started to think that what was discussed in this topic may be true - that in stores, phones have different software settings and have a very high brightness, or dc-dimming is used.

I went to the store again and again measured the 12 and 12 Pro screens. The 12 Pro showed similar results as my phone, while the regular 12 still ranged from 6.9% to 9.36%.

What is the reason, I don't know, different screen providers, different software settings in stores or something else. For me, this year the story is over, because 12 Pro, even at brightness levels above 25%, causes all the same symptoms as previous OLED iPhones - literally in 30-40 minutes doing the settings, I got eye strain and a headache. For myself, I made a decision that while the device flickers more than 1%, I will not buy it. I'll take regular 11 and return 12 Pro.

Good luck guys, I hope that the advancement of technology will still allow us to use modern phones and not get stuck with our SE, 7, 8, 11. Maybe next year.

Below are some photos with regular 12 measurements in the store.
View attachment 1680083View attachment 1680094View attachment 1680095View attachment 1680096View attachment 1680098

Thank you so much for the testing you have done and for taking the time to share all of your findings with us here!

 

[jm31828]

I'm still annoyed by this situation. I genuinely don't want an 11 or SE 2020 - these are not premium devices and have a shopping list of negatives for me. They feel cheaper than my 7 plus especially with their lower resolutions.

I've informed Apple every year after using the X, XS, 11Pro, 12Pro that the PWM is killing my eyes and I'm sure other's are as well. From people disputing the X having an issue and there not being any articles on the web talking about PWM - fast forward 4 years later and this is now widely discussed and a problem for many of us. But being just 10% or less of the consumer base clearly means that manufactures are not going to resolve this issue. So we have to wait for the OLED trend to die and Mini/micro LED kicks in for when they want to sell us something "new" and shiney!

Any thoughts or things you had read about possible long term health effects from pwm- even for those not terribly sensitive?
I’ve been wondering that as I debate returning my mini- I seem not to be having much trouble now and I can deal with it- love this phone but I don’t want to risk any potential long term issues.

 

[Aleksid1]

We discuss here OLED flickering, but do you know many people use flickering LED lamps at home and office? I can frequently observe it participating in many Zoom conferences. These cheap LED lamps flicker at 50 or 60 Hz. And nobody care this problem. Laws don't protect people from these lamps or screens.

 

[tonybarnaby]

For what it’s worth, Zollotech on YouTube had issues with the PWM on iPhone X/XS, which he says were improved on iPhone 11 Pro and all but eliminated on iPhone 12 Pro.

I’ve had to skip OLED models for the past three generations so I’m willing to give iPhone 12 a try.

He’s one of the only people I have come across that can use the 12 series but couldn’t use the previous models.

 

[TDDM]

He’s one of the only people I have come across that can use the 12 series but couldn’t use the previous models.

IIRC he could also use the 11 Pro models as well, I think he’s been using it for the past year with no issues on his end.

 

[tonybarnaby]

IIRC he could also use the 11 Pro models as well, I think he’s been using it for the past year with no issues on his end.

Good to hear, but I’m not going to waste my time on the 12. If the 13 is as good as I’m hoping, I’ll probably try it out.

 

[MICHAELSD]

IIRC he could also use the 11 Pro models as well, I think he’s been using it for the past year with no issues on his end.

It would be nice if Apple were to release an option in Accessibility so those sensitive to the flickering can still use newer iPhones, even if it required planning and hardware changes during the phone’s development process.

I’m surprised it’s been three years and they haven’t addressed this in a more meaningful way.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’m considering buying an iPhone SE during Apple’s shopping event. I likely won’t cancel my iPhone 12 Pro order, it would be just in case iPhone 12 doesn’t work out for me.

I wasn’t prepared to wait in line at an Apple Store (malls were packed today) so I’ll be doing all of my testing at home, which makes this a little inconvenient.

On the plus side I feel that iPhone SE has the best LCD Apple has put on an iPhone, even better than iPhone 11. Notebookcheck’s measurements also back that up, the contrast ratio/black level are impressive.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Regarding iPhone 12 Mini, I’m not surprised people are having the most issues with that phone. It has the most visible flickering in every video I’ve seen.

 

[tonybarnaby]

It would be nice if Apple were to release an option in Accessibility so those sensitive to the flickering can still use newer iPhones, even if it required planning and hardware changes during the phone’s development process.

I’m surprised it’s been three years and they haven’t addressed this in a more meaningful way.

Seems par for the course for apple. I can’t imagine them ever implementing dc dimming or anything

 

[jm31828]

Regarding iPhone 12 Mini, I’m not surprised people are having the most issues with that phone. It has the most visible flickering in every video I’ve seen.

I think the small size of it somewhat diminishes the effect- at least for me.

I have realized that my mini is really not bothering me, so I am keeping it.

 

[1369281]

Testing for PWM: When testing, make sure that the room's lighting is not affecting the results. If you're in Apple Store or Best Buy, for example, I recommend performing your tests underneath the table where it's dark.

PWM in other light sources: It is unfortunate that there are no laws (AFAIK) for flicker frequency. I use Waveform Lighting's flicker-free light bulbs in my house. They are 100% flicker-free and extremely color accurate. Highly recommended.

 

[Aleksid1]

In Russia there is a recent federal law which prohibit sales of LED lamps with fickering more than 10%. Regrettably such lamps still appear in shops. And there is no law which control flickering of displays in smartphones, tablets and computers.
I'm wonder that authorities in USA, Canada, EU, my country don't protect people against flickering screens. It's shame.

 

[user1234]

We discuss here OLED flickering, but do you know many people use flickering LED lamps at home and office? I can frequently observe it participating in many Zoom conferences. These cheap LED lamps flicker at 50 or 60 Hz. And nobody care this problem. Laws don't protect people from these lamps or screens.

It's a huge problem. I still mostly use incandescent from the pile I bought before they were outlawed in the EU. Still legal to use existing supply. I have tried to many LED bulbs and haven't found any good ones that are flicker free. Some are tested flicker free, but then they may change the design or a different factory makes them with a different design so there's no guarantee the one I buy will be flicker free.

I'll buy equipment to analyze flicker soon and then I will buy a few LED bulbs and test to see which I can use. Most really bright ones that have been tested flicker free have bad color reproduction.

A lot of stores around here have installed flickering LED lights. There is one in particular I can't go into if I'm tired or I get tunnel vision and have balance issues. Even on a good day it's problematic.

I really hope there will be a law requiring flicker to be labeled and a hard limit of 10% max.

 

[Aleksid1]

Just to add some mess to this problem. Incandescent lamps also flicker a little (60W lamp has 16% of pulsations). I checked it using my Radex Lupin tool, but I have no problem with these lamps - my eyes are OK. Probably because these pulsations are very soft.
Halogen lamps with 12V power supply show 5-10% of pulsations. Also OK for my eyes.
Good LED lamps show less than 1% of pulsations. I buyed some LED lamps for my home. I highly recommend to use 2700K or 3000K LED lamps with warm light for home (NOT 4000K).

And a bit more mess. I have UV luxmeter which measures UV-A and UV-B light (between 320-390). As you know day light even in cloudy weather have some ultraviolet radiation. Also Incandescent and Halogen lamps emiits some UV-A/UV-B rays like in light from a window in cloudy day. But it's intersting, that all my LED lamps, all smartphones with IPS or AMOLED screens, all computer displays with LED backlite and all tablets have NO UV-A/UV-B light - zero emission. Initially I thought that AMOLED screens produce UV-A/UV-B rays that hurt my eyes, but my UV luxmeter shows nothing - only visible light.

 

[karinatwork]

Undoubtedly there must be something wrong going on, feeling strain or not.
OLED may be that kind of technology that reveals itself like a harmful one in the future and gets remembered as a dark spot in screen history...

By the way, how are you liking your iPhone 11? Are you getting used to how big it is? Hope you are using it with no health issues!

No issues! No yellow screen! Bright and beautiful! I have attention aware turned on and everything. No headaches, no eye strain, no nothing. I put a very thin case on (Totallee), and it's beautiful and light. And I do love the rounded edges.

 

[karinatwork]

Give it a day or two. After I stopped using my 12 mini, I still had headaches that would come and go for 2 or 3 days, couldn't focus, and was getting nauseous. I called it the "Is it covid, or just an iPhone 12 mini" game

Took me almost 5 days. Don't give up yet on your 11.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Hi all. I have bounced in and out of the PWM threads for several years and thought I would share my latest experience (it's wordy so TL;DR is at the bottom).

A little history, I have been one to question if, in my situation, it was possible I was bringing on the symptoms because I was aware of the 'potential' pwm impact on my eyes and hyper focused enough to replicate the symptoms. This has happened to me in other types of situations. I went 8 Plus out the gate over the X because I didn't like the size of the X. So when the Xs series came out, I was already well aware of the this thread. I tried the XS Max, felt I had sensitivity, and immediately returned it because I still loved the 8 Plus. Last year, I really wanted the 11 Pro Max. I tried it numerous times....even taking with me on vacation to the Dominican Republic to utilize the camera. I kept having symptoms that people described, however I was slightly hung up on dropping $1500 on a phone, have a hard time with change (trusty 8 Plus with the classic design vs the new design and face ID), and never really allowed myself to just relax and enjoy the phone. As soon as I was close to the 14 day window, I was compelled to take it back.

I tried the 11 and HATED it. I hated the fonts, got hung up on the drop in resolution, felt it was narrow, etc. Tried it numerous times. Hated it.

Went back to the 8 Plus which was feeling long in the tooth and back in August when I got a new puppy, I decided to try the 11 one last time for the camera as I was taking tons of pics that the 8 Plus couldn't handle with an energetic pup. This time, I set the 11 up exactly how I wanted it to look, put the 8 Plus in the drawer, and just started using the 11 exclusively. No more constant side-by-side comparisons and hyper focus. And, I fell in love with the phone I once hated. I love everything about my 11 aside from not being able to get 512GB. I can watch an NFL game on that screen and see the sheen on the helmets. By not comparing it side by side and pixel peeping for hours, I have realized just how excellent the screen on the 11 is.....and.....zero symptoms.

Decided to try the 12 Pro Max. This time I was not concerned with change, not concerned with money, and was able to just use the phone as it is meant to be. Time after time, I get what I describe as a dull ache right behind my eyes, eyes feel strained, maybe a mild headache, and sometimes slight nausea. It's not like I get migraines, sharp pains, etc. but it's enough to where it is very noticeable and once I am back on my 11, all is well.

So, I will be keeping my 11 for the next year and see what happens with the 13. I have no scientific evidence, I have no idea how far reaching this is, no idea why it happens to some, had no success with any of the dozens of suggested tweaks, have ruled out Face ID for me, and can offer no expert advice on the topic. I really think the answer may be more simple than many allow it to be. I think some eyes are sensitive, most are not, and the only way to know is to actually try the phone. Best of luck to all of you as you pursue solutions.

TL;DR: I am 100% confident I cannot use the 12 Pro Max due to OLED but have zero issues with the iPhone 11 and have gone from hating the phone originally to loving it for all that it is.

 

[now i see it]

Eyes never evolved to stare at flickering pixels

 

[MICHAELSD]

Is there any difference in PWM between the iPhone 12 Pro and Pro Max?

Notebookcheck measured the PWM (I’m getting slightly tired of typing both of those words) on iPhone 12 Pro Max to be at a lower frequency than iPhone 12 Pro, but didn’t go as into depth as they did in that review.

Anecdotally I tried my friend’s iPhone 12 Pro Max and didn’t experience the usual migraines I would get from iPhone X or even iPhone 11 Pro Max (which he’s tried to show me a video on) within a few seconds of using it. Although I should also note I had a double espresso and two coffees beforehand which may offset any potential migraines.

While we were out we looked at iPhone 12 and 12 Pro demos, which I got instant migraines from. iPhone 12 Mini is the worst of the three. I wanted to check in an Apple Store to be sure but they only offer express pickup.

Also interesting to note: the colors on the iPhone 12 Pro appeared notably deeper with more contrast than iPhone 12 and Pro Max. I checked all of the settings including Accessibility and none were enabled so there is definitely some panel variance going on. The demos in the Verizon store didn’t exhibit the same difference.

 

[jimmy_uk]

There a whole website dedicated to those of us suffering fron PWM or strain from OLED and LCD. Like this thread, they have also have a monster one here https://ledstrain.org/d/21-usable-smartphones/1128

Sadly from what I have read there isn't a solution or even a recent flagship phone that avoids these issues.