Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[jimmy_uk]

Is there any difference in PWM between the iPhone 12 Pro and Pro Max?

Notebookcheck measured the PWM (I’m getting slightly tired of typing both of those words) on iPhone 12 Pro Max to be at a lower frequency than iPhone 12 Pro, but didn’t go as into depth as they did in that review.

Anecdotally I tried my friend’s iPhone 12 Pro Max and didn’t experience the usual migraines I would get from iPhone X or even iPhone 11 Pro Max (which he’s tried to show me a video on) within a few seconds of using it. Although I should also note I had a double espresso and two coffees beforehand which may offset any potential migraines.

While we were out we looked at iPhone 12 and 12 Pro demos, which I got instant migraines from. iPhone 12 Mini is the worst of the three. I wanted to check in an Apple Store to be sure but they only offer express pickup.

Also interesting to note: the colors on the iPhone 12 Pro appeared notably deeper with more contrast than iPhone 12 and Pro Max. I checked all of the settings including Accessibility and none were enabled so there is definitely some panel variance going on. The demos in the Verizon store didn’t exhibit the same difference.

I noticed my eyes become very mildly strained and dry while using the 12 Pro Max but didn't immediately turn into a headache like all the previous OLED iPhones. Unfortunately, I muddied the waters by trying a standard 12 the next day (thinking I didn't like the Pro Max size and weight) which ended up giving me terrible eye strain which became a multi day migraine. I couldn't use the 12 Pro Max anymore as my eyes were messed up so returned both sadly.

I'm annoyed I did it this way as it still has me wanting to try a 12 Pro Max as there is nothing else on the market for me in the flagship tier. But it's a long wait for delivery and alot of hassle to return. I'm pretty sure the PWM is bad enough it's not worth the risk for me.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Against my better judgment I have an iPhone 12 Pro Max being delivered soon. I’ll be the first to admit that ordering it was probably a mistake, but I’m ready to move on from my 8+ (I’d even consider an iPhone SE) and I didn’t want to skip a year of at least trying a new iPhone, especially as an enthusiast that appreciates the design and changes Apple makes every year. It will be boxed back up after the first sign of a migraine or headache.

 

[jimmy_uk]

An easy to follow explaination of PWM

 

[1369281]

An easy to follow explaination of PWM

That's a pretty good video. I like the examples he shows. I have some concerns with two things he stated:

1. He says most displays use PWM. I would argue that.
2. He says 100% brightness eliminates PWM. That's not always correct.

Thanks for posting this!

Best of luck, @MICHAELSD, with your 12 Pro Max!

 

[MICHAELSD]

That's a pretty good video. I like the examples he shows. I have some concerns with two things he stated:

1. He says most displays use PWM. I would argue that.
2. He says 100% brightness eliminates PWM. That's not always correct.

Thanks for posting this!

Best of luck, @MICHAELSD, with your 12 Pro Max!

Honestly I’m thinking about returning it without even opening the box/trying it, but I’ll report back if I do.

 

[asus389]

I apologize if this has already been answered. It is often said that if you use a PWM OLED display at 100% brightness that this will have the least eye strain because the display is at its "minimum flicker". However, the newest iPhones have two brightness levels listed in specs: a "max (typical)" brightness and a "max (HDR)" brightness. The latter being higher. Does this mean the "typical" 100% isn't really 100% as far as minimizing flicker is concerned?

 

[jimmy_uk]

That's a pretty good video. I like the examples he shows. I have some concerns with two things he stated:

1. He says most displays use PWM. I would argue that.
2. He says 100% brightness eliminates PWM. That's not always correct.

Thanks for posting this!

Best of luck, @MICHAELSD, with your 12 Pro Max!

Both fair and accurate points to raise. Overall the video could be helpful to those who contine to ask "what is PWM" and can't be bothered to do any research.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Honestly I’m thinking about returning it without even opening the box/trying it, but I’ll report back if I do.

You've got to give it ago now that it's coming. You've been charged and have 14 days. 🤞

 

[Roadstar]

You've got to give it ago now that it's coming. You've been charged and have 14 days. 🤞

This. Now that you've got it coming anyway and maybe have to return it, it would make all the hassle more worthwhile if you get at least some concrete test results out of it.

 

[MICHAELSD]

This. Now that you've got it coming anyway and maybe have to return it, it would make all the hassle more worthwhile if you get at least some concrete test results out of it.

I suppose it could be useful for Apple to know whether what they’re doing is enough for their most PWM-sensible users to be able to use the latest iPhones.

However, I’m not optimistic that that will be the case until there‘s a breakthrough in display technology that affords them the ability to offer comparable display quality while completely eliminating any type of flickering.

One note I will add is that I’m going to leave auto-brightness on instead of obsessing over which brightness level causes the least headaches like I did on iPhone X. If I’m going to use the latest and greatest iPhone then I should be able to enjoy it without having a compromised experience, otherwise it’s simply not worth it.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I apologize if this has already been answered. It is often said that if you use a PWM OLED display at 100% brightness that this will have the least eye strain because the display is at its "minimum flicker". However, the newest iPhones have two brightness levels listed in specs: a "max (typical)" brightness and a "max (HDR)" brightness. The latter being higher. Does this mean the "typical" 100% isn't really 100% as far as minimizing flicker is concerned?

Yes, that seems to be an accurate observation. There is still flickering at the typical 100% brightness, which was also the case with past OLED iPhones.

I would be curious to measure HDR content to see if there’s still measurable flicker at the brightest peaks.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Has anyone sensitive to previous generations managed to use 12 Pro Max? I'm sure I've read that some have found it less strenuous but ultimately still an issue. But surely some have experienced the improvement?

Unfortunately for me (and my sanity) I'm still thinking about trying one again, this time in isolation rather than at the same time as another oled iphone. I can't help but feel I didn't give it a fair chance by using a standard 12 at the same time which clearly for me was terrible for my eyes. It's an itch I can't ignore because I desperately need a new phone and I'm stuck on wanting a flagship.......🤦‍♂️

I know I shouldn't (but my local store has stock for collection tomo) - the devil on my shoulder says "do it", the angel says "avoid the hassle and stress".

 

[MICHAELSD]

Apparently iPhone 13 is “definitely” getting a LTPO display according to new reports.

Apple Watch Series 6 uses a LTPO OLED, and has practically no flicker at 60Hz with an incredibly low amplitude:

Although it should be noted that the PWM on previous Apple Watch generations has had a similarly low amplitude, which explains why we don’t have any issues with the Apple Watch. I think this proves Apple could be doing more to address this on the iPhone.

For comparison this is the amplitude curve on iPhone 12:

For further reference this was iPhone X:

It does seem to be improved at between ~ 25-75%, though not as drastically as I’d like.

 

[user1234]

Apparently iPhone 13 is “definitely” getting a LTPO display according to new reports.

Apple Watch Series 6 uses a LTPO OLED, and has practically no flicker at 60Hz with an incredibly low amplitude:

This was Apple Watch Series 4 pre-LTPO:

Although it should be noted that the PWM on previous Apple Watch generations has had a similarly low amplitude, which explains why we don’t have any issues with the Apple Watch. I think this proves Apple could be doing more to address this on the iPhone.

For comparison this is the amplitude curve on iPhone 12:

For further reference this was iPhone X:

It does seem to be improved at between ~ 25-75%, though not as drastically as I’d like.

Great graphs here, but I just want to point out that the Apple Watch series 4 did have an LTPO backplane.

Apple Watch Series 4 - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

”LTPO OLED Retina display with Force Touch”

There seems to be a lot of confusion going around about this, probably because Apple marketed the always on display so hard in conjunction with LTPO.

Anyways, we can see that the Apple Watch does a lot better at any given brightness than the OLED iPhones do. I don’t know what requirements Apple has for color accuracy on the watch, but I’d bet it’s not as high as for the iPhones, which makes it possible to run at lower brightness without PWM.

I hope LTPO in the iPhone will mean no or minimal flicker at any brightness, but I have my doubts it will be prioritized over color accuracy. The current situation with 100% flicker at 10-25 % is not good so I hope they can at least improve on it. I’m hopeful for the iPhone 13, but I’m also skeptical it will provide the long awaited solution.

 

[now i see it]

The rumored "SE Plus" is what I'm waiting for. At this point, if I know there's an OLED screen in an iPhone, I'll get eyestrain and headaches just thinking about it subconsciously

 

[daviddcmd]

I'm wondering why I'm OK with the 11 Pro Max but not ok with the regular 11 Pro and the entire 12 lineup.

Any theories?

 

[jimmy_uk]

I'm wondering why I'm OK with the 11 Pro Max but not ok with the regular 11 Pro and the entire 12 lineup.

Any theories?

Guess you have a very specific sensativity and the 11 Pro Max is operating in a way that doesn't trigger this? Software, display controller, PWM rate, your settings etc.

 

[jimmy_uk]

The rumored "SE Plus" is what I'm waiting for. At this point, if I know there's an OLED screen in an iPhone, I'll get eyestrain and headaches just thinking about it subconsciously

We're waiting until 2022 for that, or least SE2022 according to the leaks. 😫

 

[MICHAELSD]

Great graphs here, but I just want to point out that the Apple Watch series 4 did have an LTPO backplane.

Apple Watch Series 4 - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

”LTPO OLED Retina display with Force Touch”

There seems to be a lot of confusion going around about this, probably because Apple marketed the always on display so hard in conjunction with LTPO.

Anyways, we can see that the Apple Watch does a lot better at any given brightness than the OLED iPhones do. I don’t know what requirements Apple has for color accuracy on the watch, but I’d bet it’s not as high as for the iPhones, which makes it possible to run at lower brightness without PWM.

I hope LTPO in the iPhone will mean no or minimal flicker at any brightness, but I have my doubts it will be prioritized over color accuracy. The current situation with 100% flicker at 10-25 % is not good so I hope they can at least improve on it. I’m hopeful for the iPhone 13, but I’m also skeptical it will provide the long awaited solution.

Thanks for pointing that out. I checked the Series 3 (amplitude depicted below) and there was a definitive improvement once Apple switched to LTPO on Series 4:

Also notable regarding the Apple Watch is that there are only three or four brightness levels, compared to 100+ on the iPhone. I’ve said before I would welcome a setting that replicates this, even if it meant being limited to a handful of brightness levels.

 

[barry.wiestling]

Regarding iPhone 12 Mini, I’m not surprised people are having the most issues with that phone. It has the most visible flickering in every video I’ve seen.

I have a 12 mini and I thought I was going crazy that I could see the flicker. I came from an X where I didn’t notice it at all.

 

[daviddcmd]

Why is this still an issue. From the original pole it looks to be a big issue. Does Apple notice these things on MR? Are they being cheap with lower frequencies, what are the reasons for the lower frequencies? Moving forward if this continues I am out of the Iphone market which I've been in from the original Iphone.

 

[TDDM]

I was thinking of creating an anonymous google survey form for us to nail down some specifics about this issue, what kinds of questions would be most useful? I want to respect privacy, so I‘m not sure how in-depth to go. Here’s a rough draft of what I have so far:
-Which devices do you have trouble with?
-How long does it take to develop symptoms after using a flickering device?
-How long do your symptoms last after using a flickering device?
-Where is your discomfort located? (Temple, above eyes, below eyes, etc)
-How long have you had this issue?
-Roughly, how long do you spend on screens per day?
-Do you use eye drops/corrective glasses/warm compresses/filtered glasses (If so, do they provide any relief?)
-Do you have issues with PWM only? Or do you also have issues with certain non-PWM screens?


Does anyone have any suggestions for helpful questions? I’d ideally like to circulate this within this thread, the XR eye strain thread, the Mac eye strain thread, etc and see if there’s some kind of common underlying factor.

As soon as I get a finalized list of questions, I’ll create the survey and post it here.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’ve been using an iPhone 12 Pro Max for the past 48 hours and I can confidently state that all of my assumptions going into it came to fruition:

While setting up iPhone 12 Pro Max I did notice the faintest hint of a migraine lingering in the back of my mind, which wasn’t surprising. I used it for about a half hour without any major signs of a headache. Then I put the phone down and went for a walk with my dog, and began noticing the throbbing pain behind my eyes that started the second I began using iPhone X.

The good news is that I think I was right in my assumption that it was worth trying a new iPhone this year since it does seem like Apple has done the most to address this issue since iPhone X was released. However, what they’ve done isn’t nearly enough.

I can use iPhone 12 Pro Max for longer periods than I could use iPhone X, and I would get a terrible migraine just from looking at a YouTube video on an iPhone 11 Pro Max. Now this may be entirely anecdotal since the second time I tried iPhone X I was able to use it for a day before the headaches began to come back. Even right now while typing this on iPhone 12 Pro Max I’m getting migraines and a tension headache, so maybe the migraines that started with iPhone X just needed time to resurface.

I was going to say that I do feel that it’s improved at ~ 25-75% brightness since I noticed immediate migraines at the extremes of the brightness scale (~ 10% and at near max brightness) but the iPhone 12 Pro Max is sitting at 39% brightness right now and I’m noticing migraines.

I must be particularly sensitive to PWM because I can visibly see the flicker at times, especially on white backgrounds. I find text more difficult to focus on than it is on a LCD display. It’s almost dizzying staring at the display while typing this. It just seems off.

I was almost prepared to come here and state that they’ve just about fixed it on this generation; however, the more time I’ve spent with the phone the more I’m realizing that isn’t the case. I can’t state with certainty that it’s better in any meaningful way than the PWM implementation on iPhone X was.

I would like to try iPhone 12/iPhone 12 Pro since it does seem like it uses a new 60Hz mode that’s similar to DC dimming at between 22-50% brightness, which I couldn’t confirm is also implemented on iPhone 12 Pro Max. Unfortunately I would expect the end result to be the same.

As nice of a phone as iPhone 12 Pro Max is, realistically there’s no way I’ll be able to continue using it without dealing with constant migraines 24/7. I’d also be worried about the potential long-term health consequences.

Bottom line: I can’t say the PWM implementation on the iPhone 12 series for me is any better than it was on iPhone X, as much as I was hoping this would be the generation with the most drastic improvement. I don’t think the most PWM-sensible users will be able to use an iPhone again until they get rid of the flicker entirely.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Everyone who is sensitive to PWM should send a tweet @tim_cook and also send Apple feedback here.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Everyone who is sensitive to PWM should send a tweet @tim_cook and also send Apple feedback here.

Apple is definitely aware of the issue, they just haven’t made it a priority to do what’s necessary to fix it. Still, additional feedback helps.