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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
- Thread starter Kitkad
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I hope so much that Apple changes something on the iPhone 15/Pro, regarding the display.
I can certainly use my iPhone 12 Pro for another 2-3 years, but I also want something new for the future.
I do not give up hope that I can use one of the new iPhone.
I can certainly use my iPhone 12 Pro for another 2-3 years, but I also want something new for the future.
I do not give up hope that I can use one of the new iPhone.
I have a 13 Mini that I think mildly bothers me, but it's mostly not too bad.
For someone who is PWM sensitive as well as being sensitive to a screen that is bright, what are everyone's thoughts on which is better in regards to PWM?:
-Setting brightness to 95%, with Reduce Whitepoint at 95%
-Setting brightness to about 25%, with Reduce Whitepoint at 50%
Would the PWM frequency and "depth" be essentially the same with either of these combinations, since Reduce WhitePoint also has some impact on PWM?
For someone who is PWM sensitive as well as being sensitive to a screen that is bright, what are everyone's thoughts on which is better in regards to PWM?:
-Setting brightness to 95%, with Reduce Whitepoint at 95%
-Setting brightness to about 25%, with Reduce Whitepoint at 50%
Would the PWM frequency and "depth" be essentially the same with either of these combinations, since Reduce WhitePoint also has some impact on PWM?
Increasing WP is usually slightly better than reducing brightness (i.e. has a lower flicker %)
Here's a test of the two settings you mentioned, performed with a Radex Lupin, on an iPhone 14:
- Brightness 95%, RWP 95%
- Flicker %: ~9.17%
- Brightness 25%, RWP 50%
- Flicker %: ~15.5%
Thank you so much for sharing!! That's quite a difference- I really appreciate the information!
What percentage is considered acceptable for people with some sensitivity- is below 10% ideal, or is it truly much lower than that?
And lastly, I currently have a 13 Mini- have you seen any data on how that model compares with these values? I thought I had read that it was pretty similar on both of these settings- but I can't find that site again so I am not sure.
If your 13 mini “mildly bothers” you, then you’re pretty lucky. I tested several 13 minis and, while some of them were a bit easier on my eyes, most of them pierced my retinas. So much that I gave up on them, and decided to wait for the 15 pro.
If the 15 pro fails me, I already know I will get a 3rd gen SE and stick with it for as long as I can.
Got a question for you. My mom got an iPhone 12 and she has astigmatism. She started using and she’s noticed that screen seems fuzzy to her. I hope it isn’t the pwm that’s affecting her
This is up in the air! Most information I've read says that <5% should be aimed for, for there to be no impact.
But PWM is such a personal matter, and likely impacted not just by the flicker %, but also by someone's other potential health issues, eye issues, etc. Not to mention the actual display used in the specific phone that you're using. For example, if one needs glasses to read, but doesn't use them always when browsing the phone temporarily (such as me, for example), then I find that not using glasses will cause more eye strain (which seems logical), and as a consequence, will make the effects a bit worse.
I've been using the iPhone 14 for over a month now, and am fine with it.
I do make sure not to use it in a really dark environment, as then the flicker % goes up to 25%+, and I can definitely feel something of a discomfort then. Most of the time, in normally lit environments, the iPhone's auto-brightness settings will hover at around 10-12% flicker ratio.
Nothing exciting here. I’m still on 12 Pro Max with mild eye strain during an hour or more of use. That’s probably normal ish for most people. I’m not yet experiencing headaches.
I love the camera. The call quality is maybe meh. Hard to tell, as I don’t often use voice calls since my dad passed away and I am not either talking to him or medical staff as much. My iPhone 11 actually was fantastic for voice calls during that time period.
I’m also able to switch between the 12 Pro Max and my S22 Ultra and S23 Ultra screens and my Pixel 7a display with no noticeable issues. Which is unlike the case with my 14 Pro Max or my 13 Pro which caused me issues using other OLED screens.
I love the camera. The call quality is maybe meh. Hard to tell, as I don’t often use voice calls since my dad passed away and I am not either talking to him or medical staff as much. My iPhone 11 actually was fantastic for voice calls during that time period.
I’m also able to switch between the 12 Pro Max and my S22 Ultra and S23 Ultra screens and my Pixel 7a display with no noticeable issues. Which is unlike the case with my 14 Pro Max or my 13 Pro which caused me issues using other OLED screens.
I have a dilemma.
Recently the iPhone 14 suddenly dropped the price at just 830€ in a retailer. Here, Apple sells that smartphone at 1.011€, so it has a good discount.
However, in September we will see the final iPhone 15 (A16, 6GB RAM), and the 15 Pro (A17, 8GB RAM). We will be able to test those screens, although some sources say the 15 Pro display will be the same as the 14 Pro one. Others say it will be a much lower consumption one.
I don't know if I will be sensitive to the iPhone 14 screen, although after testing it in-store, sometimes (yes, not always) I get headaches and nausea. I think it depends on the store illumination.
So, despite the fact that the iPhone 14 being at just 830€ is a great deal, I think it is a better decision to wait until September, and test if the screens on the iPhone 15 or the 15 Pro are good for my eyes, because the iPhone 13 screens pierce my eyes, and I suspect the 14s ones won't be much easier on me.
Fingers crossed. If none of this works out, I think I will have to settle with an SE 2022
Recently the iPhone 14 suddenly dropped the price at just 830€ in a retailer. Here, Apple sells that smartphone at 1.011€, so it has a good discount.
However, in September we will see the final iPhone 15 (A16, 6GB RAM), and the 15 Pro (A17, 8GB RAM). We will be able to test those screens, although some sources say the 15 Pro display will be the same as the 14 Pro one. Others say it will be a much lower consumption one.
I don't know if I will be sensitive to the iPhone 14 screen, although after testing it in-store, sometimes (yes, not always) I get headaches and nausea. I think it depends on the store illumination.
So, despite the fact that the iPhone 14 being at just 830€ is a great deal, I think it is a better decision to wait until September, and test if the screens on the iPhone 15 or the 15 Pro are good for my eyes, because the iPhone 13 screens pierce my eyes, and I suspect the 14s ones won't be much easier on me.
Fingers crossed. If none of this works out, I think I will have to settle with an SE 2022
I can see why the deal is appealing but waiting for the 15 series would be a good bet as we are so close to release and you might end up wondering "What if" should you get a 14 now. There will be plenty of sales on the 14 series once the 15's are out.I have a dilemma.
Recently the iPhone 14 suddenly dropped the price at just 830€ in a retailer. Here, Apple sells that smartphone at 1.011€, so it has a good discount.
However, in September we will see the final iPhone 15 (A16, 6GB RAM), and the 15 Pro (A17, 8GB RAM). We will be able to test those screens, although some sources say the 15 Pro display will be the same as the 14 Pro one. Others say it will be a much lower consumption one.
I don't know if I will be sensitive to the iPhone 14 screen, although after testing it in-store, sometimes (yes, not always) I get headaches and nausea. I think it depends on the store illumination.
So, despite the fact that the iPhone 14 being at just 830€ is a great deal, I think it is a better decision to wait until September, and test if the screens on the iPhone 15 or the 15 Pro are good for my eyes, because the iPhone 13 screens pierce my eyes, and I suspect the 14s ones won't be much easier on me.
Fingers crossed. If none of this works out, I think I will have to settle with an SE 2022
I suspect the 15 series displays will be the same as the 14's and for me likely still totally unusable like every OLED iPhone before it - but I'm still going to try a 15PM and 15+. The iPhone 11 has shown up again on the UK refurb store which I'd say is a lot better than settling for an SE despite its age.
If the 15 series doesn't work for me I'm covered by my iPhone 11 for next year but I will definitely buy a few Android phones to find out if it's just Apple's modifications to the LG and Samsung OLED screens that's the issue. I say this every year but this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back if I still cannot own a flagship iPhone. My stubbornness of sticking with iOS will have to end if Apple insists on messing with all of their product displays leaving them unusable for me (PWM and dithering).
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I’m traveling and been on my 12 Pro Max solid hours. Like 6 hours solid watching movies and texting and stuff like that. And I’m doing great. It’s a refurbished one. I don’t know why I can use this phone but I thank goodness I can. I was able to use it before when I had my original one. After trying all the 12 models that year. That’s why I decided to take a chance on this one.
It’s so weird. I don’t know what’s going on. I really don’t. I wish we could identify and come up with a formula to help everyone. But there’s nothing like that.
I get migraine from the promotion display on the pro models
Interesting. I will need to do some digging on the claims for this one......
I can't find out who makes this display and why this highest PWM display on the mobile market is being supplied for a mid-range phone.
It's potentially good news if the claims are real. Except for: Honor "a state-owned enterprise controlled by the municipal government of Shenzhen".
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Does anyone with PWM sensitive eyes tested this phone?
There was more discussion about this on /r/pwm_sensitive and people returned it due to eye strain.
3840Hz is an improvement but is still flickering. It might help some people here and it's good this issue is getting attention but Honor should NOT call this flicker-free.
Hi all,
crazy this is still going on since 2017. I first noticed the problem with the X and lately with the 14 Pro which I brought back to buy instead a second hand 11.
one thing that I don’t understand, and makes me unconvinced that it is PWM, is that I am not sure the optical nerve, the cones, the rods can resolve such high frequency. If the optical sensitive elements cannot see the modulation, why should it matter? Is anyone aware of measurements of the eye sensitiv frequency response?
also has anyone experience with LED OR micro LED displays, is that better (they should not require PWM)
crazy this is still going on since 2017. I first noticed the problem with the X and lately with the 14 Pro which I brought back to buy instead a second hand 11.
one thing that I don’t understand, and makes me unconvinced that it is PWM, is that I am not sure the optical nerve, the cones, the rods can resolve such high frequency. If the optical sensitive elements cannot see the modulation, why should it matter? Is anyone aware of measurements of the eye sensitiv frequency response?
also has anyone experience with LED OR micro LED displays, is that better (they should not require PWM)
The OFF/ON nature of these displays causes our iris to open and close - our eye starts to contract like a muscle. The lower the frequency of this flicker the bigger our iris contractions and the more we feel eye pain. Eye pain/fatigue can lead to headaches and/or nausea or the feeling of motion sickness.
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Our only hope for no PWM in future iPhone phones.
As much as I cringe in saying this, I think what we need is for a TikTok influencer to make some video showing the effects of PWM in a very TikTok viral way.
“Look at what your iPhone is actually doing…”
Then Apple would pay attention.
Sites like MacRumors have given this issue zero exposure over the past 7 years. Not even one article.
“Look at what your iPhone is actually doing…”
Then Apple would pay attention.
Sites like MacRumors have given this issue zero exposure over the past 7 years. Not even one article.
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It is quite disheartening that these eye-strain issues are being largely ignored by Apple and others. I will stick with my iPhone 11 as long as possible, but after it dies I may just leave the Apple ecosystem if I have to, or at least keep buying refurbished 11s.
If only it was as simple as leaving the Apple ecosystem. It seems that Samsung phones have similar issues.