GOODBYE, APPLE.

[Hank Carter]

I don't know, I only saw it once I think? So you tell me: does Apple haunt you every day even if you don't open any music application, and reinstalls automatically the application that generates those spammy messages, so the only way to stop the spam is to leave the app installed but disable the notifications? (huh, doesn't sound like a definition for malware?)

If that is what it does, then yes, it is as annoying as Microsoft's.

BUT WAIT! I just got off my lazy ass to disable all those crap tiles flashing in the humongous start menu from when I installed this. Turns out that I have to disable them ONE BY ONE!

If someone told me this, I would think they are making this up! It's like when previous Windows came full of crapware needing uninstalling - but here it all comes embedded, so plain reinstalling won't help! Oh joy!

Here's your choice. Put up with what amounts to trivial nonsense that can be sorted out or go back to 4-10 year old dead end hardware from a company that no longer has any interest in anyone but casual users and emoji obsessed teenagers. Or you can follow Tim's advice and buy an iPad Pro.

Personally I have work to do and couldn't care less if the Office icon keeps reappearing. It's doesn't stop me from getting work done and I probably won't even notice it. I'm keeping my MacBook Air, but Apple is going to have to display a 180 degree change in attitude in regards to their product line to get me back after having been a customer for over 20 years.

 

[ITguy2016]

They have the right to be deluded. They've just been duped by marketing professionals.

I see a lot of "Ultimate Driving Machines" on the street, but I've never seen them piloted by "Ultimate Drivers".

Yes they do...just like Mac users who feel the user experience in macOS has a better user experience.
[doublepost=1479160416][/doublepost]

I recently reinstalled my Creative Suite apps on my 2010 Mac Pro running Sierra. It felt.....more fluid. Compare that to my 2015 custom built PC, it just does not run as well. There have been many bugs lately with the Adobe suite that I am not happy with. Some of them are resolved and only impacted the Windows side (if you enabled Rulers in the CC 2014 release, zooming in and out would be VERY VERY slow even when I had my GTX 980).

Things just get in your way on the Windows side. I find myself using my 2010 Mac Pro vs my 2015 custom built Windows machine 80% of the time. The other 20% is when playing games since I have a GTX 1080.

Please quantify "more fluid". As for the bugs you'll have to take that up with Adobe. They're not Windows' fault.
[doublepost=1479160507][/doublepost]

If you wish to continue the automotive analogies, IMHO, macOS is like a non-triptronic automatic transmission where Apple does most of the driving for the user and Windows is like a stick shift where Microsoft makes you drive for yourself. It all boils down to which experience you enjoy more.

Good analogy with one caveat...Windows is more like the steptronic automatic instead of a manual.

 

[Ethosik]

Yes they do...just like Mac users who feel the user experience in macOS has a better user experience.
[doublepost=1479160416][/doublepost]
Please quantify "more fluid". As for the bugs you'll have to take that up with Adobe. They're not Windows' fault.
[doublepost=1479160507][/doublepost]
Good analogy with one caveat...Windows is more like the steptronic automatic instead of a manual.

Uh yes it was Windows' fault as it never happened on the OS X side. It just feels more natural working with the Adobe suite on macOS.

 

[ITguy2016]

Uh yes it was Windows' fault as it never happened on the OS X side. It just feels more natural working with the Adobe suite on macOS.

No, it's Adobe's fault for programming a bug into the Windows version. Windows cannot prevent developers from writing buggy code. As for feel more natural on OS X I'm sure it does...to you. For others it feels more natural on Windows. As I said: Preference. I won't argue with your preferences.

 

[Larry-K]

Yes they do...just like Mac users who feel the user experience in macOS has a better user experience.

That would be an apt analogy if BMW called their vehicles "The Ultimate Driving Experience" but that is not implicit in their slogan. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" might in fact evoke a horrible experience in real terms, requiring more of the driver than a fat wallet, and a quest for status, as with a Formula One Car.

Apple, on the other hand, may imply that MacOS (or whatever they're calling it this week) is the 'Ultimate Computing Experience" in their marketing materials, but they do not explicitly state that in a slogan. Since UIs are very subjective experiences (and really, they're all pretty horrible), throwing in "Ultimate" would just open the manufacturer up to ridicule (which I'm okay with).

 

[ITguy2016]

That would be an apt analogy if BMW called their vehicles "The Ultimate Driving Experience" but that is not implicit in their slogan. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" might in fact evoke a horrible experience in real terms, requiring more of the driver than a fat wallet, and a quest for status, as with a Formula One Car.

Apple, on the other hand, may imply that MacOS (or whatever they're calling it this week) is the 'Ultimate Computing Experience" in their marketing materials, but they do not explicitly state that in a slogan. Since UIs are very subjective experiences (and really, they're all pretty horrible), throwing in "Ultimate" would just open the manufacturer up to ridicule (which I'm okay with).

Bingo! My point exactly. Several participants in this forum seem to have a problem understanding this.

 

[koyoot]

Bingo! My point exactly. Several participants in this forum seem to have a problem understanding this.

And you have problem with understanding that its not about UI.

 

[ITguy2016]

And you have problem with understanding that its not about UI.

Then give examples which are not UI related. Until you stop giving UI examples I have no choice but to discuss what had been brought up as the topic of discussion.

 

[mryingster]

I'm not sure I want to get involved in this flame war...

I've been an ardent Mac fan since forever. I've never had Windows in the home. I began using Windows XP in college during the whole Vista fiasco. Windows XP was not a fun experience compared to Mac OS X. It felt clunky and unintuitive. I really did not like it. Conversely, at the time I was using it, Apple had just released Leopard, and then Snow Leopard. To me, those were the pinnacle releases of OS X. I had fewer issues with those than any version before or since.

Now I've been using Windows 7 daily at work since I graduated. 6 years or so. Windows 7 is really nice. It's very stable. It looks good. I have huge up-times. Its just great for day to day stuff that one might do. I hate having trouble shoot security settings, and trying to do anything with networking is a nightmare. Sometimes it seems like the same setting needs to get flipped in multiple places! That's not an everyday thing though. That's an occasional occurance.

OS X El Capitan (and now Sierra) have declined greatly in my opinion. I have issues with Sleep, my mouse gets all jumpy if I don't reboot ever couple of days, and fast-user switching resets the window manager and logs everyone out. It's just a mess compared to what I would expect from Apple.

The thing is, I prefer a couple of things about OS X that I'm just stuck on. I like the finder. I know people bash it, but to me it is the most amazing file manager that works the way I like. Terminal. I like having the terminal and *nix there. I use it more than any other application. I like the control panels, I like how the system files are organized. I like being able to unpack applications.

In short, it's probably a case of you like what you are used to. As much as I am annoyed with Apple's computer lineup, and as great as Windows has been for me at work, I still just like Mac OS X. My next machine will not be Apple hardware. But I just can't let go of the software. For me, I think my next machine will be a hackintosh.

 

[ITguy2016]

I'm not sure I want to get involved in this flame war...

I've been an ardent Mac fan since forever. I've never had Windows in the home. I began using Windows XP in college during the whole Vista fiasco. Windows XP was not a fun experience compared to Mac OS X. It felt clunky and unintuitive. I really did not like it. Conversely, at the time I was using it, Apple had just released Leopard, and then Snow Leopard. To me, those were the pinnacle releases of OS X. I had fewer issues with those than any version before or since.

Now I've been using Windows 7 daily at work since I graduated. 6 years or so. Windows 7 is really nice. It's very stable. It looks good. I have huge up-times. Its just great for day to day stuff that one might do. I hate having trouble shoot security settings, and trying to do anything with networking is a nightmare. Sometimes it seems like the same setting needs to get flipped in multiple places! That's not an everyday thing though. That's an occasional occurance.

OS X El Capitan (and now Sierra) have declined greatly in my opinion. I have issues with Sleep, my mouse gets all jumpy if I don't reboot ever couple of days, and fast-user switching resets the window manager and logs everyone out. It's just a mess compared to what I would expect from Apple.

The thing is, I prefer a couple of things about OS X that I'm just stuck on. I like the finder. I know people bash it, but to me it is the most amazing file manager that works the way I like. Terminal. I like having the terminal and *nix there. I use it more than any other application. I like the control panels, I like how the system files are organized. I like being able to unpack applications.

In short, it's probably a case of you like what you are used to. As much as I am annoyed with Apple's computer lineup, and as great as Windows has been for me at work, I still just like Mac OS X. My next machine will not be Apple hardware. But I just can't let go of the software. For me, I think my next machine will be a hackintosh.

Bingo! My point exactly. Several participants in this forum seem to have a problem understanding this.

 

[ActionableMango]

I like the finder.

Brave statement.

 

[pat500000]

I'm not sure I want to get involved in this flame war...

I've been an ardent Mac fan since forever. I've never had Windows in the home. I began using Windows XP in college during the whole Vista fiasco. Windows XP was not a fun experience compared to Mac OS X. It felt clunky and unintuitive. I really did not like it. Conversely, at the time I was using it, Apple had just released Leopard, and then Snow Leopard. To me, those were the pinnacle releases of OS X. I had fewer issues with those than any version before or since.

Now I've been using Windows 7 daily at work since I graduated. 6 years or so. Windows 7 is really nice. It's very stable. It looks good. I have huge up-times. Its just great for day to day stuff that one might do. I hate having trouble shoot security settings, and trying to do anything with networking is a nightmare. Sometimes it seems like the same setting needs to get flipped in multiple places! That's not an everyday thing though. That's an occasional occurance.

OS X El Capitan (and now Sierra) have declined greatly in my opinion. I have issues with Sleep, my mouse gets all jumpy if I don't reboot ever couple of days, and fast-user switching resets the window manager and logs everyone out. It's just a mess compared to what I would expect from Apple.

The thing is, I prefer a couple of things about OS X that I'm just stuck on. I like the finder. I know people bash it, but to me it is the most amazing file manager that works the way I like. Terminal. I like having the terminal and *nix there. I use it more than any other application. I like the control panels, I like how the system files are organized. I like being able to unpack applications.

In short, it's probably a case of you like what you are used to. As much as I am annoyed with Apple's computer lineup, and as great as Windows has been for me at work, I still just like Mac OS X. My next machine will not be Apple hardware. But I just can't let go of the software. For me, I think my next machine will be a hackintosh.

Flame war? It's not a flame war. It's a nice episode of "The View." We are all having a nice cup of coffee or whatever and having nice chat about Windows and MacOS.

Both OS are great.

Use whatever you need to get your stuff done. Tim Cook is the one who is trying to divide windows and mac osx users...not us.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Tim Cook is the one who is trying to divide windows and mac osx users...not us.

Have you watched TV lately? See any ads for Apple other than iPhone and Apple Watch? Remember those great ads for Mac vs PC years ago (now you see plenty of Can't do that on a Mac ads for Microsoft). Remember how Macs used to be all over the TV shows? Have you noticed that PC's are starting to pop up in shows like NCIS LA?

Doesn't look like Tim is even trying anymore...

 

[pat500000]

Have you watched TV lately? See any ads for Apple other than iPhone and Apple Watch? Remember those great ads for Mac vs PC years ago (now you see plenty of Can't do that on a Mac ads for Microsoft). Remember how Macs used to be all over the TV shows? Have you noticed that PC's are starting to pop up in shows like NCIS LA?

Doesn't look like Tim is even trying anymore...

That's what I'm saying....not caring is causing more separation.

 

[AidenShaw]

Remember how Macs used to be all over the TV shows?

Now producers are embarrassed to have that arrogant glowing Apple - they'll blot it out so that it looks like one of the aluminum Windows systems.

 

[zephonic]

Now producers are embarrassed to have that arrogant glowing Apple - they'll blot it out so that it looks like one of the aluminum Windows systems.

View attachment 672301​

Or, you know, maybe Apple stopped paying for product placement and the producers are not going to give it to them for free...

 

[AidenShaw]

Or, you know, maybe Apple stopped paying for product placement and the producers are not going to give it to them for free...

As pat500000 said:

"Doesn't look like Tim is even trying anymore..."​

 

[ActionableMango]

Or, you know, maybe Apple stopped paying for product placement and the producers are not going to give it to them for free...

Apple claims they have never paid for product placement, so in fact producers have been giving it to them for free.
http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Gets+Free+Product+Placement+in+TV+Shows+Movies/article24679.htm
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-product-placements-in-tv-and-movies-2012-8

 

[flat five]

Now producers are embarrassed to have that arrogant glowing Apple - they'll blot it out so that it looks like one of the aluminum Windows systems.

​

apple also blotted it out on the latest MBPs

 

[mijail]

Here's your choice. Put up with what amounts to trivial nonsense that can be sorted out

A spammy/malware-like application that can be uninstalled is something that "can be sorted out".
But if the spammy/malware-like application is baked-in and made uninstallable/auto-reinstalled by the manufacturer of the OS, you are hosed, by definition. Also, if they do this kind of thing in clearly visible ways, imagine what they must be doing there where you can't see it.

And you insisting that "this can be sorted out" is significative. Seems like, to you, "sorted out" means "OK, Microsoft, do whatever you want with my computer".

or go back to 4-10 year old dead end hardware from a company that no longer has any interest in anyone but casual users and emoji obsessed teenagers. Or you can follow Tim's advice and buy an iPad Pro.

My 3-year-old computer stills WorksForMe everyday, all day, and earns me my money. I am not sure I'd buy anything more powerful right now - certainly I'm not looking.

Personally I have work to do and couldn't care less if the Office icon keeps reappearing.

Hope you don't mind the computer restarting while it's being used as a server

It's doesn't stop me from getting work done and I probably won't even notice it.

So you're just accepting the inevitability of it, right?

I'm keeping my MacBook Air, but Apple is going to have to display a 180 degree change in attitude in regards to their product line to get me back after having been a customer for over 20 years.

Customer here for 21 years now (Windows 95 brought me into the Mac world!). Testing the Windows waters from time to time (also having to maintain Windows computers for family, or live with them at work). Always come back disgusted.

Note again: I'm not really defending Apple. What I'm saying is that Windows is not a solution, for any value of "solution". Consider Linux and then we might talk.

 

[Roykor]

Until the Start Menu fails to open up which has happened to me on a FEW computers. Or until the next big Windows update causes issues with your webcam. Or when you got to work and surprise surprise you need to wait an hour for the big update to run.

Look, I was all for Windows 10 at the time it was released. I even spend $600 for two copies. But the latest updates and breaking stuff that existing computers with Windows 10 have been able to run without issues just gives me a bad taste. Windows 7 was the last good OS Microsoft released.

Well, i have my share of problems with OSX too. Its not flawless. Updates to a newer OS from Marverics was big trouble for me. Drivers that stop working, my profile with errors, the continuously loosing the connection with my NAS, etc etc etc.. I think OSX is a very nice OS. But Windows is a nice OS too. Problems can always peek around the corner on both sides.

fact is that Apple is nog having a good configured up to date 2016 computer for graphics. And it doenst look like they have plans to change this.

So, hi PC

 

[antonis]

It's common knowledge that Microsoft has gone a long way under the new CEO's guidance. The h/w was always there, now the s/w also starts to get in the right track. Meanwhile what has apple done to keep on top ? Releasing more wristbands and removing ports...like a Pro. Oh, and one of the main features of the next major 10.12 upgrade will be new redesigned emoticons...again. Can't wait, eh ?

Both OSes have bugs or design flaws. I'm sure everyone can find macOS's issues easily. Hint: you don't even have to go to another site.

 

[Hank Carter]

Note again: I'm not really defending Apple. What I'm saying is that Windows is not a solution, for any value of "solution". Consider Linux and then we might talk.

Linux doesn't run all production tools. You can get Maya, Nuke, Resolve etc, but it doesn't run Premiere, AE and many others. That's not a problem for a larger company where they can set up machines with different OS depending on the needs of individual workers, but that's not an option for everyone.

Ultimately I think you are missing the point. You can cut this anyway you want but at the end of the day the simple fact is that no matter how good MacOS is the hardware is a joke and there is no relief in sight. Apple will never again produce something like the cMP or HP 640/840 series. Not going to happen as long as the current management is on place. It's over until further notice, so it really doesn't matter if MacOS is superior to Win10. That's the same logic that killed SGI.

 

[mijail]

Hoooooly ****. Windows 10 doesn't update the Explorer windows when a file changes?????
Mind you, it NOTICES that the date changed and updates it - but the window doesn't sort again!!

Maybe hoverboards was asking for too much, but... FFS... in 2016 we can't even have self-updating explorer windows?? I'LL BET EVEN UBUNTU HAS THEM, FFS!!
[doublepost=1479339324][/doublepost]

Linux doesn't run all production tools. You can get Maya, Nuke, Resolve etc, but it doesn't run Premiere, AE and many others. That's not a problem for a larger company where they can set up machines with different OS depending on the needs of individual workers, but that's not an option for everyone.

I don't know what you do, but in the companies I have worked it was always rather "do what you want as long as you get the work done". For context, I'm a software developer and it was always small-ish companies. Maybe I was lucky.
But I'd fight hard before letting that "luck" go.

Ultimately I think you are missing the point. You can cut this anyway you want but at the end of the day the simple fact is that no matter how good MacOS is the hardware is a joke and there is no relief in sight.

I guess I'm lucky, because for me it still is good enough. And when it stops being, I'll have options to avoid the Pit of Despair - I mean, Windows.

Apple will never again produce something like the cMP or HP 640/840 series. Not going to happen as long as the current management is on place. It's over until further notice, so it really doesn't matter if MacOS is superior to Win10. That's the same logic that killed SGI.

Funny how in the 90s the argument was exactly the contrary: "yes, the hardware is more powerful, but without software it's useless". I still think the same.

 

[Roykor]

Naming Windows an "Pit of Despair" is narrow minded. Hail MacOS and the rest is garbage. Not my cup of thee. I see my computer as an tool. The OS on it is just a part of the puzzle. I work now with W10. It didn't change my workflow, it didn't change my end product. Only a other name on the box and a few minor way of handling things.

Good for you that your older system still handles your work. I need raw power. For exemple, i just saved a photoshop file with an 5x2,5 meter project. The fila weights 19GB. I am so glad that i switched to an PC and these files load under a minute. My 6 core i7 with 32gb mem, an Samsung 950 pro ssd, and extra 1GB SSD for bulk and a Nvidia 1070 on board is running circles around a maxed configured 6 core MacPro which would cost me also 6000 euro, and still need to look for external storage. My system cost 2600 euro. I think Apple really lost it there.

I haven't found a single reason to stay with Apple so far. I was afraid about Windows. Simply because reading those "Pit of Despair" comments on these forums where Apple is the holy grail and the rest sucks. If Apple comes with a new system.. i will look into it in some years. For now, my system kicks ass, and i can update it anytime I want, and even keep the cost kinda low compared to Apple. But to be honest, I have a bad taste in my mouth when it comes about Apple in the last years. I am even looking to replace my Apple eco system at home.

Interesting too see that many in my graphic sector are switching too or are all-ready switched. They are done with the way Apple is treating us.

Thats my rant, sorry. good luck guys