Green Button - Maximize, Not Full Screen

[azpc]

For all of you who are satisfied with the Green full screen button - great. Glad to hear it!

This is only a request for an option to change the default behavior of the Green button. Why request an option? (Please see my earlier comments in addition to these comments from around the web.)

Enjoy and have a great day!


Evidence: (This is a small sampling of why Apple needs to provide a Maximize option.)

Comments from OSX Daily

"Perhaps a future version of Mac OS X will allow users to manually adjust the green maximize button behavior without having to rely on Option+clicking or third party utilities."

"I’ve dug around and scoured for defaults write commands to change the green button behavior back to the old default in prior versions of OS X, but have yet to find anything. If you know of a solution that doesn’t involve using a third party app, do let us know in the comments."

"frikkin maximize problem!!!!"

"I prefer to simply press the green button and get the maximized window. Period."

Comments from Mac Yourself

"In this instance, imho, Mac has it wrong and Windows has it right."

"Mac has many features that beat Windows, but this isn’t one of them. Maybe mac could allow users to change the zoom-button settings in preferences according to the desires of the user.

"This was one thing that always puzzled me when I had to work with a friend’s Mac..I thought he had screwed up some OS setting – I didn’t realize this was the default behavior. It really sucks."

"I think this should be an option. I’m cool with mac users preferring their intelligently randomsizing, they can have it. Just give me the choice. I do think you can go too far with too many choices. But I don’t think this is too far."

"This has probably only been my gripe with OSX, ever. For personal use and for development, the only thing that has consistently kinda irked me."

Comments from Tekrevue

"In helping many users transition from Windows to OS X over the years, we’ve found that it’s also one of the areas that new Mac users find most confusing."

"Totally agree. It looks like Apple prefers worse functionality over copying the behavior of Windows."

"Dude, I hear you. I HATE the new functionality. I do not want to go into Full Screen mode, as it inhibits the Cmd-Tab capability; I run dual-screen so the screen supporting full screen is virtually useless if you quickly need to check out another app.

I still need the ability to quickly have a Safari window fill up the entire screen estate without the headache of being in full-screen mode, especially when I am constantly dragging windows back and forth between screens."

From Perfect Fit Computers

"If you’re coming to a Mac, having been familiar with the world of Microsoft Windows, it seems like a normal request: Maximize means “use the maximum amount of screen space”.

I use Mac OS X daily. And I love it. But I grew up on Windows, and find myself always wanting to truly maximize (without going into full screen mode, which is something else entirely).

From Rededit

"I have a feeling I'm not going to like this. I almost never use full screen. I prefer to simply maximize my windows so I can still see the menu bar. I already use spaces, so I have no need to have extra spaces for full screen apps. I'm hoping there will be a (hidden?) option to turn this off."

From Switching to Mac

"One very, very common question/complaint from folks who have recently switched from Windows to Mac is the green button. It’s a totally valid question – the resizing behavior has always annoyed me too, and I made the switch years ago.

Request:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Or send Tim Cook at Tweet at Twitter.

 

[MEJHarrison]

Evidence: (This is a small sampling of why Apple needs to provide a Maximize option.)

Comments from OSX Daily

"Perhaps a future version of Mac OS X will allow users to manually adjust the green maximize button behavior without having to rely on Option+clicking or third party utilities."

"I’ve dug around and scoured for defaults write commands to change the green button behavior back to the old default in prior versions of OS X, but have yet to find anything. If you know of a solution that doesn’t involve using a third party app, do let us know in the comments."

"frikkin maximize problem!!!!"

"I prefer to simply press the green button and get the maximized window. Period."

Comments from Mac Yourself

"In this instance, imho, Mac has it wrong and Windows has it right."

"Mac has many features that beat Windows, but this isn’t one of them. Maybe mac could allow users to change the zoom-button settings in preferences according to the desires of the user.

"This was one thing that always puzzled me when I had to work with a friend’s Mac..I thought he had screwed up some OS setting – I didn’t realize this was the default behavior. It really sucks."

"I think this should be an option. I’m cool with mac users preferring their intelligently randomsizing, they can have it. Just give me the choice. I do think you can go too far with too many choices. But I don’t think this is too far."

"This has probably only been my gripe with OSX, ever. For personal use and for development, the only thing that has consistently kinda irked me."

Comments from Tekrevue

"In helping many users transition from Windows to OS X over the years, we’ve found that it’s also one of the areas that new Mac users find most confusing."

"Totally agree. It looks like Apple prefers worse functionality over copying the behavior of Windows."

"Dude, I hear you. I HATE the new functionality. I do not want to go into Full Screen mode, as it inhibits the Cmd-Tab capability; I run dual-screen so the screen supporting full screen is virtually useless if you quickly need to check out another app.

I still need the ability to quickly have a Safari window fill up the entire screen estate without the headache of being in full-screen mode, especially when I am constantly dragging windows back and forth between screens."

From Perfect Fit Computers

"If you’re coming to a Mac, having been familiar with the world of Microsoft Windows, it seems like a normal request: Maximize means “use the maximum amount of screen space”.

I use Mac OS X daily. And I love it. But I grew up on Windows, and find myself always wanting to truly maximize (without going into full screen mode, which is something else entirely).

From Rededit

"I have a feeling I'm not going to like this. I almost never use full screen. I prefer to simply maximize my windows so I can still see the menu bar. I already use spaces, so I have no need to have extra spaces for full screen apps. I'm hoping there will be a (hidden?) option to turn this off."

From Switching to Mac

"One very, very common question/complaint from folks who have recently switched from Windows to Mac is the green button. It’s a totally valid question – the resizing behavior has always annoyed me too, and I made the switch years ago.

One more quote for you:

From MacRumors

"I like how the green button works and when I don't want that behavior, I simply grab the top-left corner and drag and the bottom-right corner and drag which solves my problem rather nicely."

If I was being a butthead, I'm sure I could find multiple quotes about how people like the new behavior. Yes, some people are asking for it. But that's all you've proven. Without any metrics of how many people prefer the new behavior vs. the old behavior, you've only proven that 17 people don't like it. And if you find 100 more quotes, you'll only prove that 117 people want this option. You can't present one side of the argument and then attempt to convince us it's the ONLY side in this battle. There are some (like myself) who are fine with how that button functions.

Look, even the people who disagree with you about how that button should work are supporting you in your attempt to get this option added. Have you contacted Apple? You keep posting this over and over and over. You do realize that posting it here does absolutely nothing to alert Apple, correct? You do realize that even if you convince every last person who reads this that this is the ONLY way, that as far as Apple is concerned, this conversation never happened, right? You have people who agree with your thoughts on how that button should behave and they agree with everything you're posting. You have people who disagree with your thoughts on how that button should behave and they also are supporting your desire for a new option. I'm not sure who you're trying to convince here. Whomever that may be, I doubt they have the power to make any changes whatsoever.

By the way, when I size my windows manually (by dragging the corners), they seem to retain that preference. So the next time I open that application, it seems to remember my sizing. Wouldn't it be easier to make the window the size you want manually and never mess with the green button again? After the initial setup, that's 0 clicks! Just open the app and it's already "maximized" to your preferences. I've not done a ton of testing, but it seems to work fine for me.

So, to recap... If you don't like the new behavior, you can:

1. Learn to deal with it
2. Hold the Option key down while clicking the button
3. Double-click the title bar
4. Contact Apple and hope they listen
5. Look into 3rd party solutions
6. Size your windows by manually dragging the corners
7. Use Windows instead of OS X.

And people say Apple isn't giving them options...

 

[zhenya]

Yes, I am aware of several third party utilities. In fact, I sent a list to Tim Cook. While I am very glad they exist, there are two issues that exist with third party utilities.

Compatibility issues & cost issues.

Yes I know they are cheap, however, new Mac users are not expecting to need extra utilities to do "fundamental" tasks. Needing to add extra software to maximize a window leaves a bad taste in their mouth before they really get a chance to enjoy the Mac.

There is no need for 3rd party utilities when Apple already provides two different ways to get this behavior. Sorry that it's not by checking a box to make the green box do what you want, but frankly, it's a very Windows point of view to say 'I can accomplish this goal easily using these other methods, but I MUST have the option to do it MY way.' And then Microsoft caves, and there is a 3rd or 4th way of going about doing the same thing.

Fortunately OS X is not Windows.

 

[bladerunner2000]

One more quote for you:

From MacRumors

"I like how the green button works and when I don't want that behavior, I simply grab the top-left corner and drag and the bottom-right corner and drag which solves my problem rather nicely."

If I was being a butthead, I'm sure I could find multiple quotes about how people like the new behavior. Yes, some people are asking for it. But that's all you've proven. Without any metrics of how many people prefer the new behavior vs. the old behavior, you've only proven that 17 people don't like it. And if you find 100 more quotes, you'll only prove that 117 people want this option. You can't present one side of the argument and then attempt to convince us it's the ONLY side in this battle. There are some (like myself) who are fine with how that button functions.

Look, even the people who disagree with you about how that button should work are supporting you in your attempt to get this option added. Have you contacted Apple? You keep posting this over and over and over. You do realize that posting it here does absolutely nothing to alert Apple, correct? You do realize that even if you convince every last person who reads this that this is the ONLY way, that as far as Apple is concerned, this conversation never happened, right? You have people who agree with your thoughts on how that button should behave and they agree with everything you're posting. You have people who disagree with your thoughts on how that button should behave and they also are supporting your desire for a new option. I'm not sure who you're trying to convince here. Whomever that may be, I doubt they have the power to make any changes whatsoever.

By the way, when I size my windows manually (by dragging the corners), they seem to retain that preference. So the next time I open that application, it seems to remember my sizing. Wouldn't it be easier to make the window the size you want manually and never mess with the green button again? After the initial setup, that's 0 clicks! Just open the app and it's already "maximized" to your preferences. I've not done a ton of testing, but it seems to work fine for me.

So, to recap... If you don't like the new behavior, you can:

1. Learn to deal with it
2. Hold the Option key down while clicking the button
3. Double-click the title bar
4. Contact Apple and hope they listen
5. Look into 3rd party solutions
6. Size your windows by manually dragging the corners
7. Use Windows instead of OS X.

And people say Apple isn't giving them options...

Most people are complacent. You'll never get an answer that satisfies you.

Also, you're incredibly wrong on your long post. Apple HAS screwed things up before and reverted back to old ways. Look into the dock's implementation of folders displaying subfolders with Leopard/Snow Leopard transition. You're only proving to us that you'd rather not have options to satisfy many for your own, dare I say, ego. It's actually offensive.

 

[bladerunner2000]

There is no need for 3rd party utilities when Apple already provides two different ways to get this behavior. Sorry that it's not by checking a box to make the green box do what you want, but frankly, it's a very Windows point of view to say 'I can accomplish this goal easily using these other methods, but I MUST have the option to do it MY way.' And then Microsoft caves, and there is a 3rd or 4th way of going about doing the same thing.

Fortunately OS X is not Windows.

FALSE.

This is NOT going about doing the same thing. Read the thread all over again.

 

[zhenya]

FALSE.

This is NOT going about doing the same thing. Read the thread all over again.

I have read it in full, thoroughly. You want the green button to maximize without covering the dock. Apple already provides two methods of doing this. They don't need to provide a third or fourth.

 

[bladerunner2000]

I have read it in full, thoroughly. You want the green button to maximize without covering the dock. Apple already provides two methods of doing this. They don't need to provide a third or fourth.

So you don't believe people work in ways that are different from yours?

 

[zhenya]

So you don't believe people work in ways that are different from yours?

I do, absolutely. However I fail to see how this is really anything that could affect anyone's workflow in a meaningful way. It's not like there is NO option to resize the way you want, leaving you to manually fiddle with window sizes. Apple provides two ways to do exactly what you want, just via a slightly different means to get there - one of them arguably much easier to trigger than having to mouse to a tiny button target.

OS X is not Windows. There is no obligation on Apple's part to make it function like Windows. If the methods provided cause this much angst, there are third party tools to help make it do more precisely what you want. You have wasted more time in the course of this thread than you would have spent in a lifetime if you just accepted that Apple's way was slightly different, and moved on. Much more harmonious as well.

 

[bladerunner2000]

I do, absolutely. However I fail to see how this is really anything that could affect anyone's workflow in a meaningful way. It's not like there is NO option to resize the way you want, leaving you to manually fiddle with window sizes. Apple provides two ways to do exactly what you want, just via a slightly different means to get there - one of them arguably much easier to trigger than having to mouse to a tiny button target.

OS X is not Windows. There is no obligation on Apple's part to make it function like Windows. If the methods provided cause this much angst, there are third party tools to help make it do more precisely what you want. You have wasted more time in the course of this thread than you would have spent in a lifetime if you just accepted that Apple's way was slightly different, and moved on. Much more harmonious as well.

How can you fail to see that when so many of us in this thread have pointed out the difficulties?

 

[MEJHarrison]

Well, hey there Mr. Kettle, good to see you!

Most people are complacent. You'll never get an answer that satisfies you.

I'm not looking for an answer that satisfies me. On this subject, I'm perfectly happy. I've been playing with windows for close to 30 years. I'm perfectly capable of organizing and sizing my windows in a way that I'm satisfied with. And when things do get messed up (usually with Windows), I bitch for the 20 seconds it take me to put things back where I want them. Then I get on with my day.

Also, you're incredibly wrong on your long post. Apple HAS screwed things up before and reverted back to old ways. Look into the dock's implementation of folders displaying subfolders with Leopard/Snow Leopard transition.

No, I'm not wrong. Because I never said that Apple hasn't made mistakes and I've never said that Apple never reverses course. I'm not sure where you came up with that, but please don't put words in my mouth to prove how wrong I am.

You're only proving to us that you'd rather not have options to satisfy many for your own, dare I say, ego.

Again, you're completely fabricating things here. I've posted twice. In both posts I said I supported people's desires to get the options in there that makes life easy for them. I disagree with them and don't understand why other solutions don't work for them. But I've been supportive of their desire to get Apple to add that as an option. One more time for you, I'd have no problem at all if Apple looked at the request and decided to implement it. I neither need nor want those options, but I have no problem with Apple adding them.

Also, I've seen no proof that "many" desire this. That may well be true; I've not paid much attention. But you can't just find a handful of people who are upset to make that point. People bitch about what they don't like and tend not to bitch about what they do like. Finding people who are unhappy only proves some people are unhappy. It tells us absolutely NOTHING about the people who may be happy and just aren't speaking up to tell the world they're happy. If you wish to prove that this is something that bothers "many" people, please provide real evidence to back your claims.

It's actually offensive.

We finally agree on something!

 

[luke lau]

That only resizes the window to some odd size. It should fill the screen without losing the dock and file menu. Full screen is ridiculous, how does ANYONE get work done in multiple apps like that? Does apple really expect users to go full screen, then out, switch to app, then full screen again, then out, then full screen just to move files, import, export, etc. when switching between apps? This is the dumbest, counterproductive implementation Apple has ever done.

Well there's now full screen split screen multitasking which is arguably the 'big new' feature in 10.11

 

[lchlch]

Btw you don't need to enter than exit fullscreen every time you switch apps.

 

[Shirasaki]

I do, absolutely. However I fail to see how this is really anything that could affect anyone's workflow in a meaningful way. It's not like there is NO option to resize the way you want, leaving you to manually fiddle with window sizes. Apple provides two ways to do exactly what you want, just via a slightly different means to get there - one of them arguably much easier to trigger than having to mouse to a tiny button target.

OS X is not Windows. There is no obligation on Apple's part to make it function like Windows. If the methods provided cause this much angst, there are third party tools to help make it do more precisely what you want. You have wasted more time in the course of this thread than you would have spent in a lifetime if you just accepted that Apple's way was slightly different, and moved on. Much more harmonious as well.

Before completing reading all new posts, I want to inform one thing.

I do know I can option plus click to bring it to the similar behaviour, which maximise the window to "display everything on window properly" without covering dock and menubar, which would be another new issue in El Capitan since this OS X allows users to hide menu bar. However, sometimes it can work as we expect, sometimes not. I totally have no idea what the heck apple is doing on this thing. Finally I end up with throwing a full screen app to one space and leave it be. That is my current solution, which is now easy to achieve in Windows 10.

If apple could do those things well, and if option plus click could work perfectly, I think this thread would not exist. I don't know what this button would do in OS X prior to Yosemite, but in Yosemite, this is just awful.

 

[KALLT]

I do know I can option plus click to bring it to the similar behaviour, which maximise the window to "display everything on window properly" without covering dock and menubar, which would be another new issue in El Capitan since this OS X allows users to hide menu bar. However, sometimes it can work as we expect, sometimes not. I totally have no idea what the heck apple is doing on this thing. Finally I end up with throwing a full screen app to one space and leave it be.

What some people here don't seem to acknowledge or understand is that the green button does not maximise the window. It never did and it is not a functional equivalent to window maximising. It changes the size to something that allows the user to focus on the content at hand, not force the window into the biggest size possible. For instance, Safari will shrink or grow depending on the metrics of the webpage; Finder will grow when there is more content to show and shrink when too much white space can be distracting. The function behaves as you would expect, provided you know what it is supposed to do in the first place. It is appropriately called 'zoom' in the menu bar, not maximise. That is also why the window returns to its previous size when the green button is clicked on again. The gist is that it allows you to quickly change the viewport to something appropriate without having to change the window manually or permanently. Likewise, full screen mode is intended to be that one-stop approach to let the user focus on one app and nothing else, hence the hidden menu bar and Dock. In that way OS X has a dynamic approach to windows.

It has been explained here multiple times now that OS X and Windows have different approaches when it comes to windows. Users have, by being exposed to the Windows way, internalised these paradigms and come to expect that this is how desktop user interfaces are supposed to work. Asking for a maximise button is tantamount to asking that OS X should become more like Windows and embrace its way of doing, when the whole point of OS X is not to be like Windows. Users who don't like that hard-line approach can install tweaks to get the functionality they want, similar to OS X users who use Windows too. In that sense I think it is perfectly reasonable that Apple does not offer a choice in this regard. Their own user interface guidelines state that preferences should only be considered when the request is reasonable and to most users a common use case, otherwise it may be an additional setting that may confuse all those users that don't have a use for it; that goes squarely against Apple's user experience.

 

[Shirasaki]

What some people here don't seem to acknowledge or understand is that the green button does not maximise the window. It never did and it is not a functional equivalent to window maximising. It changes the size to something that allows the user to focus on the content at hand, not force the window into the biggest size possible. For instance, Safari will shrink or grow depending on the metrics of the webpage; Finder will grow when there is more content to show and shrink when too much white space can be distracting. The function behaves as you would expect, provided you know what it is supposed to do in the first place. It is appropriately called 'zoom' in the menu bar, not maximise. That is also why the window returns to its previous size when the green button is clicked on again. The gist is that it allows you to quickly change the viewport to something appropriate without having to change the window manually or permanently. Likewise, full screen mode is intended to be that one-stop approach to let the user focus on one app and nothing else, hence the hidden menu bar and Dock. In that way OS X has a dynamic approach to windows.

Spoiler: more thing

It has been explained here multiple times now that OS X and Windows have different approaches when it comes to windows. Users have, by being exposed to the Windows way, internalised these paradigms and come to expect that this is how desktop user interfaces are supposed to work. Asking for a maximise button is tantamount to asking that OS X should become more like Windows and embrace its way of doing, when the whole point of OS X is not to be like Windows. Users who don't like that hard-line approach can install tweaks to get the functionality they want, similar to OS X users who use Windows too. In that sense I think it is perfectly reasonable that Apple does not offer a choice in this regard. Their own user interface guidelines state that preferences should only be considered when the request is reasonable and to most users a common use case, otherwise it may be an additional setting that may confuse all those users that don't have a use for it; that goes squarely against Apple's user experience.

Therefore, as mentioned at somewhere i didn't remember, OS X dynamically expand the current window to ensure user can see more contents, rather than all contents, when clicking that so-called "maximise" green button. And I have also been told, green button expand behaviour should be defined by developer properly to ensure a good user experience.

Say I want to use a Finder window. The previous size of this Finder window displays more blank lines in window. If I option-click green button, Finder window will resize to eliminate those blank lines, while it still shows "+". I don't think this "+" is an obvious frustration point for user, but result of such action makes me feel confusing. Why? In previous size, I can see more lines on left pane, and I can see file size in a single window. When I option-click it, this window becomes smaller, not larger, and less thing could be displayed in one window. It neither displays more content, nor displays all content. It in fact, displays less content.

So, I don't know what this green button is tend to do.

 

[Young Turk]

Therefore, as mentioned at somewhere i didn't remember, OS X dynamically expand the current window to ensure user can see more contents, rather than all contents, when clicking that so-called "maximise" green button. And I have also been told, green button expand behaviour should be defined by developer properly to ensure a good user experience.

Say I want to use a Finder window. The previous size of this Finder window displays more blank lines in window. If I option-click green button, Finder window will resize to eliminate those blank lines, while it still shows "+". I don't think this "+" is an obvious frustration point for user, but result of such action makes me feel confusing. Why? In previous size, I can see more lines on left pane, and I can see file size in a single window. When I option-click it, this window becomes smaller, not larger, and less thing could be displayed in one window. It neither displays more content, nor displays all content. It in fact, displays less content.

So, I don't know what this green button is tend to do.

 

[DustyKiddo]

Hi all,

I am the one that originally drew this image and submitted it to Apple about six months ago.

I teach web / software development at the college level and have noticed that a lot of students were struggling with this one, HIGHLY UNPREDICTABLE feature on the Mac -- yup, it's the delightful, green maximize button! Oh boy...

Students really don't get this feature at all, as you never truly know what it's going to do. One student showed me that his green button (with one app) didn't do anything at all. Another time, the green button caused the window to slide partially off the screen, concealing some of the information he needed. Other times, it went full screen and freaked them out, thinking they did something "horrible" to their mac -- it somehow "deleted" their dock and menu bar!! Help! How do I get them back? ;-)

It all just depends upon the flavor of the Mac OS X version that one's using.

Apple NEEDS to figure out what the green button is going to do. I would highly recommend giving users (instead of programmers) their own choice of how they interact with their machine.

If you like the maximize to content -- YAY, good for you! You should be able to have that. If you want full screen options, that's cool. If you want the Windows-style maximize while still having access to your "dock" and menu bar, that should be an option as well. One is not better than the others.

Right now, students just look at the Mac as if it's either TOTALLY crazy or ... simply "broken." There is a beauty to giving users the option / ability to make their Mac work the way that functions best for them.

Dustin

 

[azpc]

What have we learned?


This is a popular topic - 7th most popular topic on the first page of the El Capitan forums. (7/3/15). With over six thousand views I think we can safely say this is a topic that many users are interested in.

Now to answer a few questions....


Have I contacted Apple about this issue?

Yes! May I suggest that those who are in favor of having a Maximize option also do the same!

https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

In addition, you may want to politely send Apple CEO Tim Cook a tweet at his Twitter account.

Why post a feature request on MacRumors?

First of all I did not start the posting, however, I was delighted to see it posted. Posting on MacRumors allows other users to interject viewpoints leading to better solutions.

Second, a forum posting can be sent to Apple Feedback and to others at Apple. Letting them know that multiple users are interested in this issue.

Am I requesting that Apple make OSX into Windows? No!

Nor are the other users who would like an option to set the default behavior of the Maximize button.

"Mac has many features that beat Windows, but this isn’t one of them. Maybe Apple could allow users to change the zoom-button settings in preferences according to the desires of the user.​

"This has probably been my only gripe with OSX, ever. For personal use and for development, the only thing that has consistently kinda irked me."​

"I use Mac OS X daily. And I love it. But I grew up on Windows, and find myself always wanting to truly maximize (without going into full screen mode, which is something else entirely)."​

"One very, very common question/complaint from folks who have recently switched from Windows to Mac is the green button. It’s a totally valid question – the resizing behavior has always annoyed me too, and I made the switch years ago."​

What exactly are we asking for?

A setting to change the default behavior of the Maximize (Green Button).

The default option should be set to Full Screen like it currently is.

Apple should provide an option in System Preferences to change to the default to:

2. Maximize to Content (Window will reshape according to content). This was Pre Yosemite behavior.

3. Maximize Window. (Window will expand to fill entire desktop except for the Menu Bar and the Dock).

The third option will be very popular with switchers from Windows and some variants of Linux.

Why is this an issue?

I have come to believe that most switchers multitask via the Dock. They switch from one fully maximized window to another fully maximized window and use the icons on the Dock to switch apps.

That is why these questions occur frequently amongst switchers:

- "Where did my menu bar and Dock go?"
- "I want my Dock to remain visible, how can I change this?"
- "I purchased a large screen so I can have more icons and options on the screen. Why is Apple fighting me?"

Apple has a superior product, now they need to provide just enough flexibility to accommodate familiar habits while users come to fully appreciate their new systems.

This is why I think a maximize setting is a great idea. It allows customers to maximize their productivity style.

- Some like to work with one window only and use trackpad gestures to switch apps.
- Some people like multiple windows scattered over the desktop.
- Some multitask via the Dock. Fully maximized window covering the desktop and use the Dock to switch apps.

Quacker82 Posted this excellent analysis:

"Having in the last two years switched the whole company I work for from Windows to Mac OS with over 200 Macs deployed I can say the only thing that annoys users is the fact the green button does not make a program go full screen WITH the dock still showing. Its my only annoyance too.

Yosemite made things even worse as users press it now the app goes full screen and they are lost. I don't understand how trainees are getting the green button so wrong. We try to explain in training how you can have full screen apps in OS X and multiple desktops, but its just lost on them, they want the green button to act like Maximize does in Windows."

​

What about third party solutions?

Moom and others provide a valuable service. Unfortunately, compatibility and complexity issues exist. Many users also freak out when they discover that they have to use additional software to do something as basic as Maximizing a window.

Thanks for reading and have a great day!

 

[Young Turk]

My problem with this so-called feature, is that I can't get it to reliably work in DP2 in the same way Federighi demonstrated at WWDC, and even as shown in some of the 'What's new in 'El Capitan' youtube videos.

 

[lchlch]

Hi all,

I am the one that originally drew this image and submitted it to Apple about six months ago.

I teach web / software development at the college level and have noticed that a lot of students were struggling with this one, HIGHLY UNPREDICTABLE feature on the Mac -- yup, it's the delightful, green maximize button! Oh boy...

Students really don't get this feature at all, as you never truly know what it's going to do. One student showed me that his green button (with one app) didn't do anything at all. Another time, the green button caused the window to slide partially off the screen, concealing some of the information he needed. Other times, it went full screen and freaked them out, thinking they did something "horrible" to their mac -- it somehow "deleted" their dock and menu bar!! Help! How do I get them back? ;-)

It all just depends upon the flavor of the Mac OS X version that one's using.

Apple NEEDS to figure out what the green button is going to do. I would highly recommend giving users (instead of programmers) their own choice of how they interact with their machine.

If you like the maximize to content -- YAY, good for you! You should be able to have that. If you want full screen options, that's cool. If you want the Windows-style maximize while still having access to your "dock" and menu bar, that should be an option as well. One is not better than the others.

Right now, students just look at the Mac as if it's either TOTALLY crazy or ... simply "broken." There is a beauty to giving users the option / ability to make their Mac work the way that functions best for them.

Dustin

Wouldn't Apple's current implementation be the most predictable by far? Where green = maximize. The old behavior was unpredictable beacause individual apps would implement it in a different way.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Wouldn't Apple's current implementation be the most predictable by far? Where green = maximize. The old behavior was unpredictable beacause individual apps would implement it in a different way.

No, because its NOT predictable. In VLC, the green button doesn't actually go 'full screen' but rather expands the way it would in MS Windows.

The old way was more predictable as you knew it would expand to the maximum size it 'needed' (however you'd never know how big it'd get). Now it's messed up even more.

 

[DustyKiddo]

I wish it was predictable, but it's not.

It seems that Apple wants each developer to be responsible for writing their own code for how the green button reacts when pressed. This means that you get all kinds of unexpected reactions to clicking it. Apple should consider establishing a "choose your maximize" standard that allows users to override / specify how they want their windowed apps to work.

 

[Shirasaki]

Spoiler: some other stuff

What have we learned?


This is a popular topic - 7th most popular topic on the first page of the El Capitan forums. (7/3/15). With over six thousand views I think we can safely say this is a topic that many users are interested in.

Now to answer a few questions....


Have I contacted Apple about this issue?

Yes! May I suggest that those who are in favor of having a Maximize option also do the same!

https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

In addition, you may want to politely send Apple CEO Tim Cook a tweet at his Twitter account.

Why post a feature request on MacRumors?

First of all I did not start the posting, however, I was delighted to see it posted. Posting on MacRumors allows other users to interject viewpoints leading to better solutions.

Second, a forum posting can be sent to Apple Feedback and to others at Apple. Letting them know that multiple users are interested in this issue.

Am I requesting that Apple make OSX into Windows? No!

Nor are the other users who would like an option to set the default behavior of the Maximize button.

"Mac has many features that beat Windows, but this isn’t one of them. Maybe Apple could allow users to change the zoom-button settings in preferences according to the desires of the user.​

"This has probably been my only gripe with OSX, ever. For personal use and for development, the only thing that has consistently kinda irked me."​

"I use Mac OS X daily. And I love it. But I grew up on Windows, and find myself always wanting to truly maximize (without going into full screen mode, which is something else entirely)."​

"One very, very common question/complaint from folks who have recently switched from Windows to Mac is the green button. It’s a totally valid question – the resizing behavior has always annoyed me too, and I made the switch years ago."​

What exactly are we asking for?

A setting to change the default behavior of the Maximize (Green Button).

The default option should be set to Full Screen like it currently is.

Apple should provide an option in System Preferences to change to the default to:

2. Maximize to Content (Window will reshape according to content). This was Pre Yosemite behavior.

3. Maximize Window. (Window will expand to fill entire desktop except for the Menu Bar and the Dock).

The third option will be very popular with switchers from Windows and some variants of Linux.

Why is this an issue?

I have come to believe that most switchers multitask via the Dock. They switch from one fully maximized window to another fully maximized window and use the icons on the Dock to switch apps.

That is why these questions occur frequently amongst switchers:

- "Where did my menu bar and Dock go?"
- "I want my Dock to remain visible, how can I change this?"
- "I purchased a large screen so I can have more icons and options on the screen. Why is Apple fighting me?"

Apple has a superior product, now they need to provide just enough flexibility to accommodate familiar habits while users come to fully appreciate their new systems.

This is why I think a maximize setting is a great idea. It allows customers to maximize their productivity style.

- Some like to work with one window only and use trackpad gestures to switch apps.
- Some people like multiple windows scattered over the desktop.
- Some multitask via the Dock. Fully maximized window covering the desktop and use the Dock to switch apps.

Quacker82 Posted this excellent analysis:

"Having in the last two years switched the whole company I work for from Windows to Mac OS with over 200 Macs deployed I can say the only thing that annoys users is the fact the green button does not make a program go full screen WITH the dock still showing. Its my only annoyance too.

Yosemite made things even worse as users press it now the app goes full screen and they are lost. I don't understand how trainees are getting the green button so wrong. We try to explain in training how you can have full screen apps in OS X and multiple desktops, but its just lost on them, they want the green button to act like Maximize does in Windows."

​

What about third party solutions?

Moom and others provide a valuable service. Unfortunately, compatibility and complexity issues exist. Many users also freak out when they discover that they have to use additional software to do something as basic as Maximizing a window.

Thanks for reading and have a great day!

I hate the behaviour of the green button as well because sometimes it gives me a complete opposite result.

I don't need Mac OS X go likes windows, otherwise I don't need to use Yosemite from the very beginning. The core Reason I want to use Yosemite is to explore something completely different from windows, different from what I already know before.

I remember when Apple develop programs, they often claim "this is the most natural thing user want to do when they want this app to do something. Developer should implement this function like this, to reduce learning curve of users using then mastering an app." Maybe the source is not correct, but things are something like that.

This green button belongs to this.

 

[azpc]

Wouldn't Apple's current implementation be the most predictable by far? Where green = maximize. The old behavior was unpredictable beacause individual apps would implement it in a different way.

I agree that full screen is more predictable than it was in the past. However, as DustyKiddo and BladeRunner2000 have mentioned it is not as consistent as it probably should be.

A Maximize setting is not only in the users best interest it is also in Apple's best interest. As a teacher I know DustyKiddo is correct when he states:

"Right now, students just look at the Mac as if it's either TOTALLY crazy or ... simply "broken." There is a beauty to giving users the option / ability to make their Mac work the way that functions best for them."​

Take Care and enjoy your weekend!

 

[azpc]

Shirasaki states:

"I hate the behavior of the green button as well because sometimes it gives me a complete opposite result." Agreed!

"I don't need Mac OS X go likes windows...The core Reason I want to use Yosemite is to explore something completely different from windows, different from what I already know before."
_____________________________________________

That is great if you want to explore the operating system. I had a neighbor who loved to explore new operating environments. He had twenty diagnostic programs that would load on startup so he could tweak his computer to his hearts content." I have no problem with that!

However, many of us purchased a Mac because they just worked!

None of us are asking for the OSX to become Windows. We just want a setting to adjust the default behavior of the Green (Maximize) button.

"Mac has many features that beat Windows, but this isn’t one of them. Maybe Apple could allow users to change the zoom-button settings in preferences according to the desires of the user.

"This has probably been my only gripe with OSX, ever. For personal use and for development, the only thing that has consistently kinda irked me."

"I use Mac OS X daily. And I love it. But I grew up on Windows, and find myself always wanting to truly maximize (without going into full screen mode, which is something else entirely)."

"One very, very common question/complaint from folks who have recently switched from Windows to Mac is the green button. It’s a totally valid question – the resizing behavior has always annoyed me too, and I made the switch years ago."​

Take care and enjoy your weekend![/QUOTE]