Green Button - Maximize, Not Full Screen

[azpc]

HOJX stated:

"I would personally rather have a single 'Always show menu bar and Dock' option to complement the existing Yosemite/El Capitan fullscreen behaviour."

Good idea! I could go for that. Thank you for posting!

Have a great day!

 

[Shirasaki]

Apple has unified the behaviour of the green button—to fullscreen.

I would personally rather have a single 'Always show menu bar and Dock' option to complement the existing Yosemite/El Capitan fullscreen behaviour than go one big round having multiple options for the green button. Way simpler to understand.

But in Yosemite and current El Capitan, we can still use option + click to access old behaviour, although it is not predictable.

Maybe, Apple want to hide options beyond normal reach, and render their OS X solid, and have a fixed workflow design. Minimalism.

 

[azpc]

This forum has yielded two EXCELLENT SUGGESTIONS to improve the current functionality of the Green Full Screen button.

The first was by DustyKiddo with "Choose your Maximize" graphic. (Posted by BladeRunner2000 and by AZPC.)

The second was by HOJX with the check box option "Always Show Menu Bar and Dock".

In my opinion both ideas are workable. Why?

1. Neither idea changes the default behavior.

2. Both ideas allow Mac users to add a frequently requested feature:

Click the Green Button and the window covers the entire desktop leaving the Menu and the Dock visible.
​

If you agree please contact Apple at https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Please refer Apple to this forum.

In addition, you may want to send Tim Cook a Tweet letting him know about this forum.

(I have done both and I hope you do too!)


P.S. This is why forums are such a useful place. Ideas can be discussed and improved on.

Have a great day!

 

[zhenya]

One major hurdle to making this a 'choose your own option' is that the green button does different things right now depending on the app and the developer's implementation. If it has the two arrows on it, it will go full screen. If it has the + symbol, it will dynamically resize. There may be other options I'm not even aware of?

In other words, making this globally adjustable right now is probably not even possible because it would break a good number of current apps and how they are implemented.

 

[azpc]

One major hurdle to making this a 'choose your own option' is that the green button does different things right now depending on the app and the developer's implementation. If it has the two arrows on it, it will go full screen. If it has the + symbol, it will dynamically resize.

Currently the default is full screen. This is only about changing the default behavior of the Green full screen button.

 

[zhenya]

I can see this being handled in two possible ways.

First, if the "Maximize option is selected, then it overrides the developer preference and maximizes the window.

Second, the Maximize option is only effective if the double arrows (Full Screen) is showing in the Green Button.

Maximize option = - Fully maximized window with Menu bar and Dock visible"
​

Take care and have a great day!

To me that would seem to just further sow confusion and is better handled exactly the way it is now through third-party extensions.

 

[azpc]

To me that would seem to just further sow confusion and is better handled exactly the way it is now through third-party extensions.

It won't be an issue. Currently the default is full screen.

This is only about having the option to change the default behavior of the Green Full Screen button.

Instead of going full screen - USERS will have the option setting the Green button to a Maximized window or as DustyKiddo suggested the pre Yosemite behavior.

Please see "Choose your Maximize" graphic for a detailed explanation.

 

[bladerunner2000]

To me that would seem to just further sow confusion and is better handled exactly the way it is now through third-party extensions.

Except that third-party extensions DON'T work thanks to Apple's closing of the API for the green button.

 

[azpc]

Comments from users on MacDailyNews:

"My dad got a new iMac for Christmas, his biggest beef is that the green zoom button now goes to full sceen. There are literally no programs he uses where this is useful, there’s no excuse for making this the default behavior and require an additional key press when clicking."

"My Mom is having the same issue with her shiny new iMac. Apple needs to give the user some options so they can set the default behavior."

"The fact there’s no option to make this default again (i.e. without keypress) is a big thing for my dad. He was running Snow Leopard on the old iMac and could’ve jumped to Mavericks with minimal issues easing in to the UI, but redefining the zoom button default behavior is negatively coloring the rest of his experience with Yosemite, he actually spent the time to send feedback to Apple blasting them for this decision."​

Comments from users on MacObserver:

"I hope there’s a command line preference that can be changed to toggle this behavior. I dislike full screen mode and would rather the default action is to maximize the window."

"I don’t understand the logic of making a default be a window without a menu. The standard view in the Mac OS is the with the menus. New users (which I’m not) would be fumbling around trying to get the menus back. Full screen without menus is a View Option. One would logically look under the View menu to go full screen."

"I loathe full screen, except for CAD drawings and video."

​

 

[azpc]

A few more quotes from around the web:

Ask Different:

"Really hope changing it back is possible, inadvertently hitting fullscreen mode is super annoying."

"Is there any possibility (Terminal?) to change this behavior to "normal"

"Can maximize a window in both width and height to the current screen? Can make this behavior standard just by clicking the icon?"

"I wonder this as well... as of yet I've not found a way to do this."

"It's too bad Apple doesn't make this consistent. I hate Windows as much as the next guy, but in this, I think Windows got it right."

"I tried searching for hidden preference keys but I couldn't find anything."

 

[Dj64Mk7]

The RIGHT solution is to click the green button ONCE and have it expand just like it does in MS Windows.

No. That's not even the functionality of ⌥-clicking the button. "Maximize" on OS X has never meant "Fill the screen." It is designed to expand just enough to properly display the contents of the window.

 

[bladerunner2000]

No. That's not even the functionality of ⌥-clicking the button. "Maximize" on OS X has never meant "Fill the screen." It is designed to expand just enough to properly display the contents of the window.

Sure, and it's been wrong all these years, lol.

 

[Dj64Mk7]

Sure, and it's been wrong all these years, lol.

I never said it worked properly, lol.

 

[azpc]

More quotes on this issue from around the web.

Mac Life

We wish Apple would just concede that Windows handles this better than Mac OS X, and finally copy Microsoft for a change.

Dustin Diaz

There are very few things I don't like on a Mac. One of them is the ability to maximize your application windows like the way you can on Microsoft Windows.

OS X DAILY

Would love to see a defaults setting for this!

Gigaom

Maximize vs. Zoom

"I realize that many former/current Windows users would prefer the green button maximize the window when clicked and many longtime Mac users would prefer the green button zoom the window. So how do you solve an issue where one person wants the behavior one way and another wants the behavior to do something different? Preferences.

Preferences more importantly allows users can choose what they prefer, be happy and not go griping on blogs about X Things They Hate About Using OS X."

"Options should be given to users. USERS should decide what to use."

"Just got myself a MAC and was so irritated about this and apparently, I’m not the only one…"

"This green button issue is making me want to switch BACK to Windows. I love the mac but hate the green button with unadulterated passion."

"Apple please fix the green button. It will stop switchers from windows moaning and make your operating system feel loads better in an instant."

"I'd go for switch set by user."

"I agree. Fix this irritating problem Apple!"

I think that users should be able to change green-button behavior.


The Solution: (Two Possibilities)

1. "Always Show Menu Bar and Dock option"

2. "Choose Your Maximize"

You can send feedback to Apple at:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Tim Cook, Apple CEO can be reached on Twitter.

 

[azpc]

A few more comments from around the web on the need for a Maximize Option.


Glazblog

"The most annoying OS X "feature" ever, the change of behavior of the window maximize button.

"This is so painful all the people I know are currently asking how to reverse that."

"For the time being we're all cursing in front of our Mac when we toggle an app fullscreen instead of maximizing it."

"Apple, read it well: remember the Windows Start button."


LifeHacker

"Can I change the default?"

0815 Blog

"Please, Apple, Change It!
If you don’t like the new window controls in Yosemite, please leave Apple a feedback for Mac OS X and ask them to give us a setting (even a hidden one) to change the behavior."

"Please, apple, remove this obstacle, and send me an instruction to get out of this fix! Am 83 years old and had hoped the new system would improve use of this computer, not frustrate me."

"Dislike this “feature”. Would love to be up to set the default behavior."

"Couldn’t agree more! It’s so incredibly annoying that things like these are forced upon users. If they want these new functionalities they should be made available as an option."

Reddit

"I keep clicking it inadvertently and it's just, like, really annoying and stuff. I know you can hold down Option but if there's a more permanent solution, that'd be handy."

Designer News

"Is it me or is very very annoying that full screen green button Apple introduced in Yosemite. Unless I'm watching a movie I NEVER use that full screen function. Instead I use full screen real estate function but still with access to launch bar and others."

damianjardim

"Let me be clear. I hate the green zoom / fullscreen button on the Mac. This is easily my number one Apple annoyance. I much prefer the windows maximize button. In my experience the green zoom button always results in a window I’m forced to manually resize myself. And now in Yosemite, it has been subbed out for the “Full Screen” button. Is it any better? While we do gain 0.5 cm of vertical screen space, but we’re forced to sit through sluggish animations into and out of “Full Screen” mode as well as losing an incredibly useful menulet I like to call “the clock”.

"Before we continue, yes I do know that holding down the option key will bring back the old functionality, but requiring the use of a second hand to press these modifier keys is poor design."

 

[Ashka]

Discussion finished

 

[Shirasaki]

Never received email notification let me thought discussion was over.

Say here is el capitan public beta. Rather than sending feedback as Yosemite, everyone in here running beta el capitan could also send feedback to Apple through their feedback assistant. I think, if feedback has been sent with a large number, say 100000, could this be a chance to change this behaviour before el capitan has been released?

 

[bladerunner2000]

Never received email notification let me thought discussion was over.

Say here is el capitan public beta. Rather than sending feedback as Yosemite, everyone in here running beta el capitan could also send feedback to Apple through their feedback assistant. I think, if feedback has been sent with a large number, say 100000, could this be a chance to change this behaviour before el capitan has been released?

AGREED.

Should it fall under this:

Feedback Type:
Efficiency/Workflow

Feedback Area:
Interface/Aqua

On apple's feedback page, there's no choice to select El Capitan:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

 

[azpc]

Shirasaki suggested:

If everyone running the El Capitan beta would send Apple feedback through the feedback assistant, I think this feature might be implemented. It might take a large number of users, say 10,000.


Great Idea Shirasaki! Let's Do This!

May I suggest we focus our requests on these two possibilities?

Two Possible Solutions:

1. "Always Show Menu Bar and Dock option" suggested by HOJX.

2. "Choose your Maximize" by DustyKiddo

Also please reference this forum when submitting a request. Why?

Two Reasons:

1. Apple can see the number of users interested in this discussion.
2. Apple can read through the discussion and see the reasons why this option is needed.

 

[azpc]

Additional user quotes from around the web showing the need for a Maximize Option.

Each quote is from a different user.

From Ars Technica forums:

"Oh by the way. Am I the only person who hates the full screen mode with a passion?

- Because of the stupid ass slow animation it completely disrupts work flow when I accidentally enter it.

- normally followed by 10 seconds of frantic searching how to get the file menu down and get out of this hellhole

- a lot of programs have buttons and icons at the top so you always end up activating the osx filemenu when you want to hit a button and move your mouse just a bit too high up.

- what the hell is wrong with a Windows like full-screen button that leaves you the 60 pixels of the doc and the 20 of the menu bar. It's simple and perfect. Is it some religious issue of an apple designer?"


"On the other hand, I think that of all the possible outcomes (A correctly implemented Zoom button being ideal, a Windows Maximize button being better than nothing, and the chaotic Zoom button being, well, a source of excitement throughout the day).

The choice they've made with Yosemite -- Fullscreen -- is the worst possible choice. Having the fullscreen button so close to the minimize button makes it too easy to hit accidentally, the animated transition is slow, and then you have to mouse all the way over to the other side of the screen to un-fullscreen and then wait for the transition again. The chaotic Zoom button may not always give you what you want, but it's less disruptive."



"I'm rather hoping that there will be either a preference or at the very least a 'defaults write...' command."

"I have nothing against fullscreen apps, but I personally don't use them."


From Reddit:

"I never liked the Zoom button as much as the Windows Maximize button but it was better than nothing!"



You can send feedback to Apple at:

https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Tim Cook, Apple CEO can be reached on Twitter.

If you are running the El Capitan beta you can send Apple feedback through the feedback assistant.

 

[flat five]

I'm looking for the green button to do this:

the guy in the video doesn't realize what the green button is doing.. or- he thinks it's not working when he tries it the first time then when doing it again on a different web page, it does work.. inconsistent behavior.

but it's not inconsistent.. in safari (and other apps like finder), it zooms to the largest window size necessary to avoid having scroll bars.. if you have a left-right scroll bar in safari then zoom, the window will expand far enough to the x-axis in order to make the entire content viewable.. if it runs out of room and bumps against the screen edge, the scroll bars will remain but the max size in that dimension will be given.

the zoom feature is context sensitive in a similar way right-clicking is context sensitive.. if i right-click on the raw web page, i get this menu:



whereas right-click on a word gives me this:



..right clicking on an image would give different options.. a link has its own options.. etcetc..

maximizing to full size a safari window or a finder window makes no sense.. why do you want to do that? (real question. please answer)

zoom a numbers.app window and it will expand to the full available screen minus the menu bar and dock.. that's because the canvas is bigger than you screen so it gets as large as it can in order to display as much relevant info as possible.

----
anyway.. you've made a big enough huff&puff over this and keep dishing links out to this thread all over the site so how about making the case for why you need to maximize windows to the full available screen space? i want to zoom a window to avoid scrolling.. i don't want to zoom so half my display is relevant content and the rest is just blank space.. i can't imagine someone needing this capability but obviously you do.. so please explain why.

 

[bladerunner2000]

the guy in the video doesn't realize what the green button is doing.. or- he thinks it's not working when he tries it the first time then when doing it again on a different web page, it does work.. inconsistent behavior.

but it's not inconsistent.. in safari (and other apps like finder), it zooms to the largest window size necessary to avoid having scroll bars.. if you have a left-right scroll bar in safari then zoom, the window will expand far enough to the x-axis in order to make the entire content viewable.. if it runs out of room and bumps against the screen edge, the scroll bars will remain but the max size in that dimension will be given.

the zoom feature is context sensitive in a similar way right-clicking is context sensitive.. if i right-click on the raw web page, i get this menu:

View attachment 569576

whereas right-click on a word gives me this:

View attachment 569579

..right clicking on an image would give different options.. a link has its own options.. etcetc..

maximizing to full size a safari window or a finder window makes no sense.. why do you want to do that? (real question. please answer)

zoom a numbers.app window and it will expand to the full available screen minus the menu bar and dock.. that's because the canvas is bigger than you screen so it gets as large as it can in order to display as much relevant info as possible.

----
anyway.. you've made a big enough huff&puff over this and keep dishing links out to this thread all over the site so how about making the case for why you need to maximize windows to the full available screen space? i want to zoom a window to avoid scrolling.. i don't want to zoom so half my display is relevant content and the rest is just blank space.. i can't imagine someone needing this capability but obviously you do.. so please explain why.

Read some of the complaints against the green button in this thread AGAIN and you should understand why the green button is getting the well deserved flack.

 

[flat five]

Read some of the complaints against the green button in this thread AGAIN and you should understand why the green button is getting the well deserved flack.

no.. i refuse to.. it's not my responsibility to do so in this context.. you're the one voicing the complaint so either answer my questions to clear up confusion i'm having with your gripe -or- just keep whining on the internet for no good reason.

the zoom function works good for me.. i've given the reasons why i like what it does and how it makes sense.. i've also given reasons why it makes no sense (to me) to have a window expand to fill the screen with blank space instead of simply showing relevant content.

you should be able to say why zooming only content is weak and it would be better to fill the display with a void.. that's what my questions were to determine.. reading the whole thread won't help me better understand your gripe.

 

[redheeler]

the guy in the video doesn't realize what the green button is doing.. or- he thinks it's not working when he tries it the first time then when doing it again on a different web page, it does work.. inconsistent behavior.

but it's not inconsistent.. in safari (and other apps like finder), it zooms to the largest window size necessary to avoid having scroll bars.. if you have a left-right scroll bar in safari then zoom, the window will expand far enough to the x-axis in order to make the entire content viewable.. if it runs out of room and bumps against the screen edge, the scroll bars will remain but the max size in that dimension will be given.

the zoom feature is context sensitive in a similar way right-clicking is context sensitive.. if i right-click on the raw web page, i get this menu:

View attachment 569576

whereas right-click on a word gives me this:

View attachment 569579

..right clicking on an image would give different options.. a link has its own options.. etcetc..

maximizing to full size a safari window or a finder window makes no sense.. why do you want to do that? (real question. please answer)

zoom a numbers.app window and it will expand to the full available screen minus the menu bar and dock.. that's because the canvas is bigger than you screen so it gets as large as it can in order to display as much relevant info as possible.

----
anyway.. you've made a big enough huff&puff over this and keep dishing links out to this thread all over the site so how about making the case for why you need to maximize windows to the full available screen space? i want to zoom a window to avoid scrolling.. i don't want to zoom so half my display is relevant content and the rest is just blank space.. i can't imagine someone needing this capability but obviously you do.. so please explain why.

You appear to be making the case against a green full screen button here, just like @bladerunner2000 is. Hmm...

With webpages in Safari, many pages will expand to fill the empty horizontal space and reduce the amount of vertical scrolling required. The same can be done in Finder.

 

[bladerunner2000]

no.. i refuse to.. it's not my responsibility to do so in this context.. you're the one voicing the complaint so either answer my questions to clear up confusion i'm having with your gripe -or- just keep whining on the internet for no good reason.

the zoom function works good for me.. i've given the reasons why i like what it does and how it makes sense.. i've also given reasons why it makes no sense (to me) to have a window expand to fill the screen with blank space instead of simply showing relevant content.

you should be able to say why zooming only content is weak and it would be better to fill the display with a void.. that's what my questions were to determine.. reading the whole thread won't help me better understand your gripe.

If you refuse to read the discussion then leave the discussion.