I am getting sick of the same arguments against Macs

[Timepass]

you know I find it hard to believe that the screen shot is not faked. Reasoning being is any one who would be running 10.5 alpha 2 would be under a NDA and posting that screen shot would break it and I find it highly unlikely any one who has 10.5 would be dumb enough to break that NDA.

Plus faking it is really easy to do.

 

[drummerbooker14]

Viruses are a joke that is being emphasized by mac users, trying to get one over on windows. I have yet to have one of these viruses that are supposed to 'cripple' your machine.

honestly, are you serious. just because you happen to be a "lucky" one does not mean that it does not happen. i used to own a windows xp desktop that twice was crushed with spyware and viruses. have you not heard on the news of hundreds of thousands of people being hit by a new virus. wow . utter Pants

 

[vv-tim]

Please don't impugn my intelligence, I don't appreciate it.

As for the bells and whistles, some of them DO get added, because the Mac comes with them. Such as the Dell equiv of iLife. How could you NOT add that and call them equivalent?

As for which models I was comparing, the XPS M1710 via the EDU site & the Inspiron 9400 via the HealthCare site.

You're purposefully skewing your results in favor of Apple.

The XPS M1710 is a GAMER laptop. It's specifically designed [and priced] at moronic gamers. Not to mention that it's (in several ways) specced higher by default than the MBP -- WUXGA screen, Geforce 7900, random lights that glow from the sides [pointless], 9 cell battery, etc.

Compare a consumer laptop -- the E1705.

You can't add the "Dell equivalent of iLife" into the price results because not everyone uses iLife to begin with (I've used iPhoto like... three times, that's it... and iTunes is free). If iLife was able to be optionally removed from a MBP, then it would be fair to compare the prices as such, but it's like saying "we have to add $100 to the Dell price because Mac OS X is better than Windows". Sure it is... but go and add $100 to the price of the Mac as well -- some people might rather run Windows.

And let me say it again -- DELL COUPONS COME INTO PLAY ON ALL PRICES.

 

[Mord]

you know I find it hard to believe that the screen shot is not faked. Reasoning being is any one who would be running 10.5 alpha 2 would be under a NDA and posting that screen shot would break it and I find it highly unlikely any one who has 10.5 would be dumb enough to break that NDA.

Plus faking it is really easy to do.

everything is real bar the 10.5 alpha bit.

 

[Queso]

everything is real bar the 10.5 alpha bit.

The X in the Internet Explorer window gives it away. Been at the Wine again?

 

[yellow]

Banking on the future.

 

[Mord]

no, crossover.

 

[yellow]

You're purposefully skewing your results in favor of Apple.

I am doing no such thing. The second laptop I looked at, the Inspiron 9400 is near equiv and only ended up being ~$300 less. I worked out an equiv for the E1705 and it was about $900 cheaper after the "instant" rebates. As I said before, Dell offers a mind-boggling array of machines for a user to get into, whatever their price range. So I stand corrected. In TODAY'S laptop market, and by that I mean the MBP/MB, Dells can be much cheaper. This was NOT always the case, and likely won't be the case again.

But for right now, I concede the point to you.

And let me say it again -- DELL COUPONS COME INTO PLAY ON ALL PRICES.

You are absolutely correct. This is simply something Apple CANNOT do with their market share. In this they will never compete.

So I'll fall back on another tactic. No matter how cheaply I can buy a Dell, it still won't run OS X. How's that for a smoke screen?

 

[Timepass]

honestly, are you serious. just because you happen to be a "lucky" one does not mean that it does not happen. i used to own a windows xp desktop that twice was crushed with spyware and viruses. have you not heard on the news of hundreds of thousands of people being hit by a new virus. wow . utter Pants

No he is right it is massively over played by the mac cominintee and it is no where as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Yeah it by far worse then OSX there no getting around that argument but most computers are not taken to there knees in just a few days with crap on it and viruses.

Lets see out of my friends 2 of us are computer geeks and the tech support. Everyone else comes to my room mate and I for tech support including friends of there friends. So that be around 20-30+ computers in the past year running XP most of which are not in the hands of a computer geek and are average people. Lets see maybe 3 of the computers required a ton of work. Only one of them effect by a virus/spyware the other I still havent figure out what caused it. Just spent 2 days getting the data back up and everything reinstalled and the 3rd computer it was entirelly hardware related and had noghting to with the OS. Other then a handful of minor fixes and what not. All other tech support was dealing with getting some speicallity software or hardware working. Now go over the corse of 3 years it 2-3 computers a year normally 1 software, 1 virse/spyware and 1 hardware oh and of course normally there is 1-2 cause by people messing with things that they shouldnt mess with (OSX is just as easy to bring to its knees this way).

Hardware issues are not OS issues so they really dont count.
So lets see in an avearge year across 20-30 computers 2 or so a year that can be related to virus/spyware. Boy 1/15 computers boy that is everybody

In 5 years running XP on 2 computers never had a virus or spyware problems. have had 2 issues forcing a reformate on 2 different computers. One be cause by a game corupting some systemfiles and then over time those damage files corupted more. The other being me messing around with stuff I shouldnt be screwing around with. But I am a computer geek so I know how to cover it and keep it from happening. almost all my problems are related to something I did directly.


OSX is by far more dummy proof than XP.

What everyone saying XP is always messed up really quickly is like Me saying that same list of things completed about in the first post

or All Macbook pros have to hot. and have massive whin issues and all of them are broken. We both know that is not true but it seems that way doesnt it.

 

[Mord]

my XP installs can go on forever, but they need TLC.

windows is like a tightrope walker, it'll fall off if people use it, but with care and effort it can stay on track, frankly thats something i can never be bothered to do so i rarely use my pc.


funny how your boasting that you had to reformat twice, i consider once too much.

 

[dejo]

Compare a consumer laptop -- the E1705.

But you are comparing a consumer laptop with a professional laptop. That is why it's called the MacBook Pro.

And let me say it again -- DELL COUPONS COME INTO PLAY ON ALL PRICES.

Then you should also consider Apple educational discounts and such.

 

[JBot]

windows is like a tightrope walker, it'll fall off if people use it, but with care and effort it can stay on track, frankly thats something i can never be bothered to do so i rarely use my pc.

Thats a horrible analogy. How do people 'use' a tightrope walker.
Can you please explain what you mean?

One last thing, lets say you buy an ibook, it becomes obsolete, a year later, your coverage expires, your fan stops working. You have to send it away, or bring it into a shop to get it replaced. Costs of this is time+labour+parts.
Now youre running a 'Dell.' The fan breaks after a year of useage, you go, pick up a 10dollar fan, it takes less than half an hour if you know absolutely nothign about taking apart a computer, to open it up, unplug the old one, plug in the new one, close the case. If youre still fighting over the costs of hardware, fine, lets say they are both even par. 10$ repair compared to close to 75$.

One last thing, why are people using dells as a comparison. Dells are a joke, which are not supposed to be compared to any other pc, besides, at a recent laptop showing in hong kong, a dell laptop started on fire, the company will soon be shut down, after terrorist use these bombs with keyboards on an airplane.

 

[drake]

I'm not smug about owning a Mac over a PC, but I am amazed at the sheer number of people who have to waste their time running multiple scans and/or removing spyware on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong. There are people who can keep Windows PC absolutely malware free, but let's be real about that. Those people are in the extremely HIGH minority. Everyone else simply wonders why their machine is so slow or, in the case of my own girlfriend, she didn't even realize that her IE's about blank page was now an adware page.

As long as WE exist, Apple and Macs will continue to exist and flourish. If PC users wish to fix their own home PC's after an 8 hour day of their work PC most likely not working right, that's on them. I'll be making music with GarageBand without the malware hassle interrupting.

I don't have any problem with spyware or adware on my PC. I rarely run any spyware detection programs either. I just have a really good hosts file that keeps me from most hazards.

 

[Timepass]

my XP installs can go on forever, but they need TLC.

windows is like a tightrope walker, it'll fall off if people use it, but with care and effort it can stay on track, frankly thats something i can never be bothered to do so i rarely use my pc.


funny how your boasting that you had to reformat twice, i consider once too much.

no to far there.

XP requires a little maintances and a little effort. The extent of that effort is install AV software and Antispyware for me it is Symantic Corparte (one of the best AV programs out there and not to be confused with POS nortain) and M$ Defender. That also the set up I use on any one computer I set up. Set them both to automaticly scan the computer once a week (normally at 2-3am on a random weeknight), also set them both to automaticly check for updates. Then set XP to automaticly download and install updates (again a 2-3 am once a week). Installing and setting all that up can be done in less than 30 mins and that me taking my time and teaching them how to do it them selves.
After that yeah no real work. My personal PC rig I dont really do anything extra but I dont really cause stuff to go bad. Only real thing I do is every now and then go though the hard drive deleting files and uninstall software I dont use to free up space but it would be the same on a mac. Mostly it just random downloads I do that build up over time (mods for games, random program here and so on).

But a better clear example at how well that little 20-30 mins worth of extra effort at set up works. Lets see my parents who has my sister who install more things and surf the net. They are the avearge computer users (stupid when it comes to computers). About once ever 3-5 months i spend 10-15 mins dong minor things and checking up everything. Most of that time it is me just checking up and making sure everything still running ok and I dont change or have to do anything. I may fix a thing or 2 of add some stuff for them but never really had to spend any real time doing system maintainces.
Grandparents computer was set up something like that and it gets minor tech support once a year and they know even less about computers than my parents.

Common Myths about XP
1. loaded with virus and spyware always at having trouble
2. Everything is hard to do and no easy
3. Always having to install drivers (most stuff just works.)
4. Always needing to be defrag. Umm no mordern computer really needs to be defrag any more. Yeah Fat32 system drives need it but anything running NTFS does not really need to be defrag. I believe I seen test out there than showed the diffence bettween a drive 90% fragment and 0% fragmented having a very small differnce. Really noticible no. Like less than 5%. It been so long since I read those I dont know where to find them or where I read it. I cannt use my PC rig as an example because I run OOD degfrager that like OSX HFS pretty much defrags when the computer is idling so it been about a year since my computer has cross 1% on the main hard drive (2nd hard drives have come and gone and I really dont mess with having them defrag). But really XP does not need to be defraged.

 

[vv-tim]

But you are comparing a consumer laptop with a professional laptop. That is why it's called the MacBook Pro.



Then you should also consider Apple educational discounts and such.

Professionals are considered general consumers. The Inspirion 9400 or whatever they call the E1705 in the Business segment is just another name for it. General consumers <> Gamers.

And I did consider the educational discounts. They only weigh in at <= 10% off at all times. Dell's coupons normally weigh in at 30-45% off.

 

[vv-tim]

You are absolutely correct. This is simply something Apple CANNOT do with their market share. In this they will never compete.

So I'll fall back on another tactic. No matter how cheaply I can buy a Dell, it still won't run OS X. How's that for a smoke screen?

http://www.osx86project.org

 

[yellow]

http://www.osx86project.org

Yeah, but that's not legal.

And not currently functional on any version of OS X above 10.4.2 (off the top of my head).

If Windows has taught us anything, it's keep up to date on patches, no?

 

[dejo]

Professionals are considered general consumers.

Sure they are.

 

[Mord]

Yeah, but that's not legal.

And not currently functional on any version of OS X above 10.4.2 (off the top of my head).

If Windows has taught us anything, it's keep up to date on patches, no?

i'm running 10.4.5 fine.

 

[yellow]

OK, still not legal. And by that I mean, it's a violation of the terms of the Software License Agreement for Tiger.

 

[slffl]

Ya man, don't worry about what other people think. In fact, the less switchers the better for us. Apple is making plenty of money and still innovating. The only thing more users will bring us are lower quality control (due to volume), more viruses, and more games.

 

[otis123]

my friends have turned turned there nose up at me for buying a ibook buecause "macs suck" i guess if not crashing sucks im a sucker

 

[vv-tim]

OK, still not legal. And by that I mean, it's a violation of the terms of the Software License Agreement for Tiger.

You can buy a copy of Mac OS X and it's legal under "fair use" laws, whether it violates the ToS or not.

And generic hardware (Intel only I believe at this time) is running 10.4.7 fine.

 

[yellow]

You can buy a copy of Mac OS X and it's legal under "fair use" laws, whether it violates the ToS or not.

I think it's a stretch to hide under the "fair use" portion of copyright law just to install OS X on a PC. I seriously doubt that 95% of those that do it are critiquing/criticizing/commenting on OS X.

Personally, I believe Apple put in the line "This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Mac OS X software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time." for a reason.

 

[Mord]

if you think something is wrong don't do it, if you don't feel free, justifying it or criticizing it due to ever changing laws are largely irrelevant.