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jsmith1

macrumors 6502a
Jun 6, 2010
683
594
It’s obvious this year and last year have and have had manufacturing breakdowns where certain steps are not calibrated or monitored properly to produce their usual quality products.
[doublepost=1543945847][/doublepost]
Remember, I didn’t go back 16 times, I opened a large number in store at once. Still a lot, I don’t deny, but just saying. I’m not happy about the number. Never was.

As for your partner, I don’t think you overlook flaws. Unless YOU specifically do, what some people would call flaws, their partner would see features, so I feel like it can’t apply to this situation since the entire iPhone is advertised and received as feature after feature.


Don’t believe it...I talked to an Apple store employee when I was there and they said they would never just keep bringing boxes of phones out and open for inspections till you find something you like, were these boxes in plastic or already open boxes?
 
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Eric Rathhaus

macrumors newbie
Dec 14, 2017
16
9
Im very amused with the people saying that it must be OP's fault because it is statistically impossible to get so many bad phones. well, winning the lottery is also statistically impossible, but there is always someone who wins eventually. statistics only tells you the likelihood of something happening, so as long as the probability is not zero, there is always a chance, albeit a remote one. which is also why none of you have experienced it, and hence are writing OP off. without full information, im inclined to believe that the faults are real because the store actually let him exchange 16 times. unless of course OP is lying.

The corollary is that with millions of events, it's statistically likely an improbable event occur.
[doublepost=1544567856][/doublepost]As number of events grows, it becomes more and more likely that one improbable event will occur
 
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Totally

macrumors 6502a
Feb 22, 2012
744
261
West Coast = Best Coast
I personally think OP is lying. If you assume that each time you get a phone, there is a 1% (probably a high estimate) that the phone needs to be exchanged, then to have to exchange 15 phones and be on your 16th would have odds of (10^-2)^(15) = 10^-30. That's not like the odds of winning the lottery. That's odds on par with winning the lottery jackpot 3 or 4 times in a row.

Either OP is not a reasonable buyer and was exchanging phones that were perfectly fine or OP is full of sh*t.
 

iMi

Suspended
Sep 13, 2014
1,624
3,201
Next time someone complains about Apple's "high" margins, they should read this thread. Sixteen units will now be sold as refurbished because one person refuses to seek treatment for their obsessive-compulsive disorder. :D Seriously though, Apple's defect rate is probably around 0.05% or less. I work with manufacturers in China and guessing this from experience. Plus, proper QA process would likely reduce the number of units shipped with defects well below that number.

There was a situation once where Apple sent back millions of iPhones to the factory due to excessive fail rate. I don't remember the details, but it happened some years ago. Could that be the case here? Possible, but highly unlikely. The statistical probability of one person consecutively picking out sixteen defective units must be astronomically small.
 

Donnation

Suspended
Nov 2, 2014
1,686
2,083
If I were Apple you’d be done and not allowed to purchase another phone. There is absolutely no excuse for you doing this. Go buy a different phone from a different manufacturer if you aren’t happy with the product that Apple is delivering. It’s people like you who when companies lock down return policies can’t get their phone exchanged when they have a real issue.

Your behavior is embarrassing.
 

Donnation

Suspended
Nov 2, 2014
1,686
2,083
It’s obvious this year and last year have and have had manufacturing breakdowns where certain steps are not calibrated or monitored properly to produce their usual quality products.
[doublepost=1543945847][/doublepost]
Remember, I didn’t go back 16 times, I opened a large number in store at once. Still a lot, I don’t deny, but just saying. I’m not happy about the number. Never was.

As for your partner, I don’t think you overlook flaws. Unless YOU specifically do, what some people would call flaws, their partner would see features, so I feel like it can’t apply to this situation since the entire iPhone is advertised and received as feature after feature.

I missed this part of the story. Dude please, this is complete BS. Apple isn't going to trot out phone after phone for you to open up and inspect. Take you fantasies to reddit and see if someone will buy them there. You got a nice little thread going here for yourself but ruined any chance of belief with this little nugget. Good try though.
 

Silver Idaten

macrumors 6502a
Jul 31, 2015
578
882
Stratford, CT
I missed this part of the story. Dude please, this is complete BS. Apple isn't going to trot out phone after phone for you to open up and inspect. Take you fantasies to reddit and see if someone will buy them there. You got a nice little thread going here for yourself but ruined any chance of belief with this little nugget. Good try though.
OP is nuts, but to be fair this has happened to me before. Back when I got the Air 2, I kept getting units that had significant and visible dust under the screen, like it was visible with the screen on. This was SEVERAL. The rep was kind enough to let me go through like three (or four, I can’t remember) before I reached one that didn’t have this problem. That was the only time I ever had that kind of problem, and it was embarrassing to be honest.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
Why does this seem to be more of a person lying to cause everyone here to get riled up......I don't believe it because Apple would never allow that many exchanges.

I’m not defending anyone, because this is the Internet and that’s not my intention, but I don’t think the OP is lying. I do think they went through a multitude of iPhones to be exchanged when Apple permitted them. Did the OP really return 16 iPhones? I can’t answer that. 16 is a huge number to be returned, but there have been other members were they have returned 8 iPads, or 10 iPhones, etc. If this thread is accurate, then it’s partially Apple‘s fault for allowing _that_ many returns, when they should have a limitation in the first place to how many units can be returned.
 
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JBGoode

macrumors 65816
Jun 16, 2018
1,360
1,922
I’m not defending anyone, because this is the Internet and that’s not my intention, but I don’t think the OP is lying. I do think they went through a multitude of iPhones to be exchanged when Apple permitted them. Did the OP really return 16 iPhones? I can’t answer that. 16 is a huge number to be returned, but there have been other members were they have returned 8 iPads, or 10 iPhones, etc. If this thread is accurate, then it’s partially Apple‘s fault for allowing _that_ many returns, when they should have a limitation in the first place to how many units can be returned.

He's not even claiming 16 legitimate returns--he's stating that they actually let him open a bunch of phones to inspect them with no transaction being made. What store (with a sane person in charge) would allow that? Is it worth one sale to open 6 or 8 or 10 phones for someone so they can look for a 'good one'? (assuming they don't just re-wrap and still sell as new) At some point the customer is just wrong no matter what they tell you in training. That guy would have been banned from my store for eternity for even suggesting that I allow that. :)
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
He's not even claiming 16 legitimate returns--he's stating that they actually let him open a bunch of phones to inspect them with no transaction being made.

I can see why this would seem unbelievable. But in reply, there was another member in the iPad forum about a year ago who claimed that Apple allowed them to open up multiple iPads in store, because they were so disgruntled they kept receiving defective units, Allegedly Apple wanted to make sure that they received a unit without the defects before leaving the store, so I’m not exactly sure how many iPhones the OP was allowed to open, but we can’t necessarily call him a ‘liar’, because no one has proof that this didn’t actually happen, so in theory, we don’t have to necessarily believe him, but we can’t prove otherwise either. We have to be fair in both respects.

I do have to say, amongst all the scrutiny in the 15 pages of this thread, the OP remained fairly levelheaded and well balanced with their arguments, which is another reason why I don’t necessarily think they were not lying either, but I try to see both sides of the spectrum before making any judgments.
 
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faksnima

macrumors member
Feb 9, 2016
45
27
So, I waited for my rebate to come in to do an exchange. Get the exchange back, scratch on the back..small. I say eff it, I'm done going back. As I'm about to apply the screen protector to the front, I notice a scratch on the screen. I am not dealing with a scratch on the screen - time to take it back....again. What is interesting is many of these phones, despite being sealed band boxed, are coming with large dust particles stuck under the plastic wrapping that houses the front and back of the phone. This is such garbage QC. I can understand a spec....but why is there dust (which in some cases can scratch) found housed in direct contact with the screen, as the phone is jostled all over the place.
 

janeauburn

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2015
1,314
2,234
So, I waited for my rebate to come in to do an exchange. Get the exchange back, scratch on the back..small. I say eff it, I'm done going back. As I'm about to apply the screen protector to the front, I notice a scratch on the screen. I am not dealing with a scratch on the screen - time to take it back....again. What is interesting is many of these phones, despite being sealed band boxed, are coming with large dust particles stuck under the plastic wrapping that houses the front and back of the phone. This is such garbage QC. I can understand a spec....but why is there dust (which in some cases can scratch) found housed in direct contact with the screen, as the phone is jostled all over the place.

I would suggest that you remember to use your limited discretionary time on this earth for activities that allow introspection, toward a goal of inner peace and well-being.
 

Paradoxally

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2011
1,987
2,898
If I were Apple you’d be done and not allowed to purchase another phone.

No, I actually disagree with this. Let OP buy as many iPhones as they wish. However, if they have any issue with their phone in the future (even if it's Apple's fault e.g., manufacturing defect) they are not allowed to return it or ask for a replacement for any device they purchase.
 
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0906742

Cancelled
Apr 11, 2018
2,313
613
So, I waited for my rebate to come in to do an exchange. Get the exchange back, scratch on the back..small. I say eff it, I'm done going back. As I'm about to apply the screen protector to the front, I notice a scratch on the screen. I am not dealing with a scratch on the screen - time to take it back....again. What is interesting is many of these phones, despite being sealed band boxed, are coming with large dust particles stuck under the plastic wrapping that houses the front and back of the phone. This is such garbage QC. I can understand a spec....but why is there dust (which in some cases can scratch) found housed in direct contact with the screen, as the phone is jostled all over the place.
I noticed similar things with my two X models. First one had pretty deep scratches on the back and slight scratch on the screen. It also had "popping" case, display was terrible (uniformity problem where two sides of the screen had different hue and viewing angle very narrow and it had to be kept in certain angle within degree or so without getting even worse uniformity). Scratch on the screen was likely only in oleophobic coating (even I could feel it with my fingernail) since I could not see it once screen protector was installed. Was the scratch on the screen just under the Face ID notch? Mine was.

I had it replaced with another brand new and this time it had couple dents on the steel frame where space grey colour had chipped off, there was scratch on the camera lens and it was very slightly bent (I posted photos of it here).
However this one had pretty good and very well tolerable screen (not perfect like in another X we have but still very good) and about usable viewing angle. Still battery in this one is not very good.

At this point I decided to accept that and kept the unit even with the problems. I did not want to take anymore chances and risk ending up with even worse unit and my dealer offered me some discount for the cosmetic issues on this one.

Anyway, in my opinion when paying 1k for a phone it better be perfect in build quality. I've had several iPhones before and they were much better build quality. Quality has been my reason for buying Apple. If quality is going to be like in the latest ones, I definite hesitate to buy another high priced flagship model. I don't know if QC is like this these days or is there some huge difference depending on which factory they are made in. My bad QC SG models were both from the factory starting with F (but not the same batch since there is like 1,5 month difference in manufacturing date) and our another 100% perfect silver one is from D. What letter your serial number begins with?

BTW. I also paid attention to that all our three X models had more or less bubbles and dust under factory seal wrapping, even all of them were in sealed brand new retail box from authorized reseller. But I'm pretty sure dust under this wrapping did not cause scratches what I had, they were much deeper. I remember seeing perfect bubble free wrapping in my previous devices, so maybe they have been opened at the factory for some reason.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,145
25,225
Gotta be in it to win it
I would suggest that you remember to use your limited discretionary time on this earth for activities that allow introspection, toward a goal of inner peace and well-being.
Each of us has different priorities. Taking the above into consideration, why would one post, argue, debate, banter, cajole, and/or sneer here at MacRumors on some anonymous Internet forum.
 
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aue123

macrumors 6502
Jan 24, 2019
444
529
Mid west USA
I'm on my first iPhone XS and it's perfect.

my XS experience was different, the headphone speaker would stop working and require a restart. if i didn’t touch the screen for 5+ seconds and scrolled, there would be slight stutter, or after the 5 seconds swiping the app away would have slight stutter.

my XR experience has been better BUT with the screen brightness turned down low as if reading in bed at night, you can see a ever so slightly dark area near the top of the screen.

apple says it qualifies for a screen replacement but i’ve just learned to deal with the annoying imperfection.
 

Knowlege Bomb

macrumors G4
Feb 14, 2008
10,280
8,961
US
my XS experience was different, the headphone speaker would stop working and require a restart. if i didn’t touch the screen for 5+ seconds and scrolled, there would be slight stutter, or after the 5 seconds swiping the app away would have slight stutter.

my XR experience has been better BUT with the screen brightness turned down low as if reading in bed at night, you can see a ever so slightly dark area near the top of the screen.

apple says it qualifies for a screen replacement but i’ve just learned to deal with the annoying imperfection.
That's unfortunate you had a bad experience. I actually had a pretty rough time with this phone right after getting it but it turned out to be a software issue as everything has been perfect since updating into the 12.1.3 beta (and now final).

I consider myself lucky that I'm not as sensitive to the stutters as some on these forums. It's clearly a real problem as there's a full thread dedicated to it that's got a hefty number of pages but I've just never seen it.
 

laptech

macrumors 601
Apr 26, 2013
4,123
4,447
Earth
What set's the alarm bells off with me is the part where the OP says he was allowed to open X amount in the store to inspect them for a good one. The store manager would not have allowed this to happen because it is bad practice to allow customers to see a potential problem with a product. The manager/staff would have brought out a small number, 2 or 3 at the most. If quality issues still persisted then the manager would have got staff to check the stock in their storage area. They would have been instructed to inspect the stock, find a good one and give that one to the customer. They would not have allowed the customer to inspect every single one until a good one is found.

If the OP still sticks to his story then the store manager would have most certainly been fired upon Apple senior management finding out the lengths the store went to to show not only the customer but also other customers in the shop observing what was going on, just how bad the iphone is when they see box after box after box being opened.

If the OP is 100% adamant the story is true then give the store details to one of the forums writers/editors and allow them to investigate.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
If the OP is 100% adamant the story is true then give the store details to one of the forums writers/editors and allow them to investigate.

I don’t see the value in the editors of this website being interested in investigating/reporting such a thing based off your idea. First off, this is such an isolated event, that would be difficult to piece together all the necessary information. Not to mention, if this was more widespread, like other members were reporting having returned defective iPhones in this quantity for the same thing, then that would be believable. I mean, that’s a lot of documentation if you’re considering ‘16 iPhones’ allegedly being opened/returned. Plus there would have to be some waiver and chain of receipts for all the transactions, minus the phones that the OP was reportedly allowed to open in store.
 

laptech

macrumors 601
Apr 26, 2013
4,123
4,447
Earth
I don’t see the value in the editors of this website being interested in investigating/reporting such a thing based off your idea. First off, this is such an isolated event, that would be difficult to piece together all the necessary information. Not to mention, if this was more widespread, like other members were reporting having returned defective iPhones in this quantity for the same thing, then that would be believable. I mean, that’s a lot of documentation if you’re considering ‘16 iPhones’ allegedly being opened/returned. Plus there would have to be some waiver and chain of receipts for all the transactions, minus the phones that the OP was reportedly allowed to open in store.

I think something on the lines of 'Apple store in Australia goes above and beyond to help it's customers' is something that is worth reporting on. Then they could focus on the quality issues and report it being an issue worldwide (many threads in iphone section is testament to that fact).

As for 'isolated event', if you click on 'New posts' daily, you will see 'isolated events' reported by Macrumours all the time. Why should the idea i put forward be any different? It would certainly prove if the OP is telling the truth or not, as it's totally Apple related.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
As for 'isolated event', if you click on 'New posts' daily, you will see 'isolated events'.

Translation: There is not enough credible documentation here to prove that the OP was allowed to open ‘XYZ amount of phones’ in the store, aside from the return history that they posted on a few pages back, what valid information could they actually provide proving that they were are allowed open phones in the store? So this would be an ‘incomplete investigation’ just based on what the OP said alone, unless store manager could verify that. Again, I don’t see Macrumors wanting to report this anymore than any other thread for someone saying they had defective devices, Which I gather this quantity is highly unique, I just don’t see the editorial staff pursuing something like this. Unless you had a variety of members coming forward with similar incidents with returns such as the OP’s, which as I said, this is it _not_ widespread, it’s more isolated.
 
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