iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

[Radon87000]

I repeat this again, one more time, and as many times as you need.

You can't use content from a site that is owned by an Apple competitor.

YouTubers get money to make their videos, and someone has to pay them, I'm saying Apple, or Google, or Samsung, or anyone. But someone has to pay the phones, the bills, etc. because these guys live off YouTube, so, someone needs to pay them, and whomever pays them, is going to be benefited from it.

And as you can see, the view count of those POSITIVE videos is much lower than the view count of the NEGATIVE videos, for some reason...

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...versus-ios-12-on-the-iphone-6-and-ipad-mini-2

This first iOS 12 beta breathed new life into our iPad mini 2, which was almost unbearable to use under OS 11. If you're someone with an older iOS device the ultimate release of iOS 12 is great news, and we applaud Apple for their focus on performance and not dropping compatibility for older devices.

 

[TimmeyCook]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...versus-ios-12-on-the-iphone-6-and-ipad-mini-2

This first iOS 12 beta breathed new life into our iPad mini 2, which was almost unbearable to use under OS 11. If you're someone with an older iOS device the ultimate release of iOS 12 is great news, and we applaud Apple for their focus on performance and not dropping compatibility for older devices.

Again, YouTube videos, as always...

 

[Radon87000]

Again, YouTube videos, as always...

Every website will put results of their tests on YouTube otherwise they would be accused of manipulating the results. So we would never be able to prove anything by your logic. THose synthetic benchmarks you posted. How do I know those weren't manipulated in some manner? I want to see a video of the test being performed.


In any case, I painstakingly found an article with no YouTube video
https://www.gsmarena.com/ios_12_beta_2_handson-news-31806.php

 

[TimmeyCook]

Every website will put results of their tests on YouTube otherwise they would be accused of manipulating the results. So we would never be able to prove anything by your logic. THose synthetic benchmarks you posted. How do I know those weren't manipulated in some manner? I want to see a video of the test being performed.


In any case, I painstakingly found an article with no YouTube video
https://www.gsmarena.com/ios_12_beta_2_handson-news-31806.php

Believe or not, you can put videos on the internet without YouTube.

And for the rest, you can obviously download the benchmark and test it yourself on your device.

 

[Radon87000]

Believe or not, you can put videos on the internet without YouTube.

And for the rest, you can obviously download the benchmark and test it yourself on your device.

I did test iOS 12 vs iOS 11 on my personal devices. FaceID reliability is better and I experienced a slight speed increase on it too. I did download it on an iPhone 6 as well and it was faster too. Unfortunately, my apps were crashing on it for some reason so I had to downgrade it back to 11. there is absolutely no question 12 is faster than 11. 11 was a nightmare. Reminded me of Android lollipop.

 

[I7guy]

The point of this thread is the iPhone slowdown over time. You deflect to Samsung because you have no answer to the videos. And yes I do have an iPhone X and an Apple Watch and an iPad Pro Gen 2. Battery life with normal moderate usage with zero camera usage lasts 1 day and till 9am the next day. If I try running an hour of 4k video on it, it would run out in half a day which would be an inconvenience on the road. I am being practical here. The S9 lasts longer than the iPhone X btw. I prioritise battery life an performance over everything.


And I agree, Surface Studio is overpriced crap but why are we arguing which is worse iMac Pro or Surface Studio. My custom PC has a 7700K overclocked to 4.8ghz (Prime95 24 hours stable) , G Skill 16GB 3200mhz DDR4 RAM, 11GB GTX 1080 Ti and a 500GB nVMe SSD and a 2TB conventional hard drive. It's coupled with a Dell Ultrasharp U2718Q 4k monitor or my other Asus 120hz monitor depending on my mood. An OLED monitor is up on my purchase list this Christmas depending on how much I spend on my Apple gear this year. Together this setup doesn't cost as much as an iMac Pro or the Surface Studio and it will destroy any upcoming iMac Apple has up their sleeve or any Surface for that matter.

Bonus-https://www.razer.com/gaming-laptops/razer-blade

Costs as much as a MacBook Pro but has a keyboard which actually works and has a GTX 1060 and with similar dimensions.

And by the way since you consider YouTube videos as paid and biased, here is one done by an Apple fan. THe iPhone has actually been given an unfair advantage in the second half of this test by disabling animations on iPhone but keeping them on on the OnePlus

And still the iPhone loses. Shown up by a cereal box phone. And for all you video encoders and 4k recorders out there the iPhone X won that test but look at the rest of it. It's all iOS 11's fault too.

This is iPhone 7 absolutely destroying the One Plus 5 last year

This is iPhone 7 wiping the floor with a Galaxy S8 in the same test

The comments section even has Apple fans mocking Samsung for their terrible ram management on the above tests. Now the iPhone is losing and these tests are paid, anecdotal and biased?
[doublepost=1529916934][/doublepost]Hey TimmeyCook, what's your counter to this

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...ls-smartphone-speed-ios-updates-a8121906.html

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/09/france-probes-apple-over-iphone-obsolescence-complaint/
[doublepost=1529917139][/doublepost]

At least the Samsung has a 5 minute timer. Apple's iPhones start to throttle in day to day usage after the battery wears in a few years and if you turn off the throttle phone shuts down and what's worse this is a flaw of their own creation because of defective batteries.

Six things:
- the latest o/s releases needs to be used in both cases and,
- I’d rather have my phone slow down than shut off as it does on android.
- where are the encoding comparisons?
- it’s been factually proven iPhones do not slow down over time; ie iOS 8 vs iOS 9 benchmarks.
- android needs so much memory because it’s a pig of a system
- please find some updated videos and stop recycling the same old ones
[doublepost=1529925898][/doublepost]

I did test iOS 12 vs iOS 11 on my personal devices. FaceID reliability is better and I experienced a slight speed increase on it too. I did download it on an iPhone 6 as well and it was faster too. Unfortunately, my apps were crashing on it for some reason so I had to downgrade it back to 11. there is absolutely no question 12 is faster than 11. 11 was a nightmare. Reminded me of Android lollipop.

11.4.1b3 is very good on my devices.

 

[robbietop]

The planned obsolescence we are talking about is the intentional slowdown by Apple of older devices. I do not like buying from companies which engage in this practice but the list of companies who don't is getting shorter by the day.

Why would I want to intentionally slow down a device I designed? That makes no sense.

Because if it is true that I slowed down my device, there would be written (typed, electronic) evidence of this discussion amongst the engineers over several months. If a judge ever sees that material, my company is financially liable and my customers would never trust me again.

And don't think Apple could hide that material. Eventually, someone with a conscience will leak it. If you don't believe me, change the channel to the circus in the Capitol. Tell me there aren't people willing to leak anything for a story or attention or money.

Also, conspiracy theory is conspiracy theory. If you think that thousands of people across Apple and TSMC could hide intentional design flaws, then I think I have a few other theories that might catch your fancy.

 

[Radon87000]

Six things:
- the latest o/s releases needs to be used in both cases

Which is an excuse as iOS 12.0 is faster than 11.4

I’d rather have my phone slow down than shut off as it does on android.

I think you misunderstood me or are misunderstanding me on purpose. The phone only needs to shut down once to indicate there is a problem with the phone. I will go to the store and get it fixed rather than tolerate a slow phone. Does Apple think I have no money?

-

where are the encoding comparisons?

But I have never denied any encoding improvement. My problem is the operating system slowdown not showcased in the benchmark.

it’s been factually proven iPhones do not slow down over time; ie iOS 8 vs iOS 9 benchmarks.

But iOS 9 is slower than iOS 8 in real world speed tests.

android needs so much memory because it’s a pig of a system

ios ejected 60% of the apps from memory thereby resulting in critical loss of data. . I would rather have a bruteforce method than losing all data altogether. Also pig? Google Pixel has 4GB of ram, 1 gig more than iPhone. Which will disappear this year as it's expected that X Plus will come with 4 gigs of ram. The iPad already has 4 gigs of ram.

please find some updated videos and stop recycling the same old ones

Already posted the 5s video showing comparisons of all iOS versions wherein iOS 7 destroyed iOS 11.
[doublepost=1529925898][/doublepost]

 

[_Refurbished_]

And you don't have proof!


This is of this thread, is this first post:



You need to prove that iOS 12 is faster than iOS 11.



It was you who bought Samsungs and PC's.

Your problem!

You keep spamming with garbage from YouTube, you are not going anywhere.
[doublepost=1529918019][/doublepost]

Just because he "says" he is an Apple, doesn't mean he is.

I can say that I am an Android fan.

Look, I'm an Android fan! It sucks right now, I'm going to iOS!
[doublepost=1529918215][/doublepost]

And you don't have proof!


This is of this thread, is this first post:



You need to prove that iOS 12 is faster than iOS 11.

After reading your comments in previous posts, and disagreeing with nearly everything you say, I’ll keep this short and you can continue on with your debate.

Obviously iOS 12 isn’t released yet, so there is no way to prove anything at this point. If video proof from multiple sources was provided, the naysayers (this includes you) would and have it disregarded as “anecdotal evidence”. Not trusting YouTube videos because Google owns YouTube.... that’s a first. Well done.

I’ve done this dance already, not going to further myself in the discussion. Believe what you want.

 

[Radon87000]

After reading your comments in previous posts, and disagreeing with nearly everything you say, I’ll keep this short and you can continue on with your debate.

Obviously iOS 12 isn’t released yet, so there is no way to prove anything at this point. If video proof from multiple sources was provided, the naysayers (this includes you) would and have it disregarded as “anecdotal evidence”.

I’ve done this dance already, not going to further myself in the discussion. Believe what you want.

What's laughable is this complete denial. My iPhone 6 takes 10 seconds to open YouTube. It certainly wasn't taking this long on iOS 8. Benches the same as before and encodes in the same time as before and this is a matter which was never disputed. The problem is the operating system slowdown.

 

[TimmeyCook]

After reading your comments in previous posts, and disagreeing with nearly everything you say, I’ll keep this short and you can continue on with your debate.

Obviously iOS 12 isn’t released yet, so there is no way to prove anything at this point. If video proof from multiple sources was provided, the naysayers (this includes you) would and have it disregarded as “anecdotal evidence”.

I’ve done this dance already, not going to further myself in the discussion. Believe what you want.

What's laughable is this complete denial. My iPhone 6 takes 10 seconds to open YouTube. It certainly wasn't taking this long on iOS 8. Benches the same as before and encodes in the same time as before and this is a matter which was never disputed. The problem is the operating system slowdown.

And why it's not the YouTube App.

Or didn't the YouTube had updates from Google?

 

[Radon87000]

Those are benchmark scores. We have never claimed benchmark scores would be lowered. There is a difference between benchmarks and the operating system. I can install a crap ton of malware on my PC and slow the OS down to a crawl and it would still bench the same.

But if you want to go that route, Apple was caught throttling in benchmark scores just a month later after that Apple paid off report was released.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...-to-preserve-battery-life-benchmarks-suggest/

 

[_Refurbished_]

And why it's not the YouTube App.

Or didn't the YouTube had updates from Google?

Benchmarks mean nothing when being applied to new software. I read those articles when they were released and they are flawed.

Additionally, the battery throttle slowdown and slowdown via new iOS updates are two completely separate situations that people like to group together.

 

[Radon87000]

Operating system performance and benchmarks are 2 different things. Install malware on Windows. All benchmark scores and frames per second will remain the same. But your OS will be crippled.
[doublepost=1529932149][/doublepost]

And why it's not the YouTube App.

Or didn't the YouTube had updates from Google?

Pretty much any app is slow. I used YouTube as that's one of my most used apps. Apple's own stock settings app shows a white screen for 2 seconds before loading.
[doublepost=1529932273][/doublepost]

Benchmarks mean nothing when being applied to new software. I read those articles when they were released and they are flawed.

Additionally, the battery throttle slowdown and slowdown via new iOS updates are two completely separate situations that people like to group together.

I like to think the throttle slowdown showcases their mentality which explains the iOS update slowdowm.
[doublepost=1529932377][/doublepost]

Why would I want to intentionally slow down a device I designed? That makes no sense.

Because if it is true that I slowed down my device, there would be written (typed, electronic) evidence of this discussion amongst the engineers over several months. If a judge ever sees that material, my company is financially liable and my customers would never trust me again.

And don't think Apple could hide that material. Eventually, someone with a conscience will leak it. If you don't believe me, change the channel to the circus in the Capitol. Tell me there aren't people willing to leak anything for a story or attention or money.

Also, conspiracy theory is conspiracy theory. If you think that thousands of people across Apple and TSMC could hide intentional design flaws, then I think I have a few other theories that might catch your fancy.

I do not think you understand what we mean by intentionally. Apple creates an iOS version for their latest devices and backports it to their older devices without any optimisation whatsoever. This slows down the device and people expect devices to slow as they age. Hence Apple gets away with it.

 

[I7guy]

Which is an excuse as iOS 12.0 is faster than 11.4


I think you misunderstood me or are misunderstanding me on purpose. The phone only needs to shut down once to indicate there is a problem with the phone. I will go to the store and get it fixed rather than tolerate a slow phone. Does Apple think I have no money?

-

But I have never denied any encoding improvement. My problem is the operating system slowdown not showcased in the benchmark.

But iOS 9 is slower than iOS 8 in real world speed tests.



ios ejected 60% of the apps from memory thereby resulting in critical loss of data. . I would rather have a bruteforce method than losing all data altogether. Also pig? Google Pixel has 4GB of ram, 1 gig more than iPhone. Which will disappear this year as it's expected that X Plus will come with 4 gigs of ram. The iPad already has 4 gigs of ram.



Already posted the 5s video showing comparisons of all iOS versions wherein iOS 7 destroyed iOS 11.
[doublepost=1529925898][/doublepost]

Some comments:

You proved my point by saying iOS 12 is faster than iOS 11 in the same way iOS 9 was faster than iOS 8.

iOS 11 can have the power management turned off. So you can tolerate shutdowns rather than a slow phone.

At some point a saturation will be reached in all mobile phones, where data will be ejected from memory.

Your video reminds me of the phrase win some, lose some, which is exactly iOS 7 vs iOS 11.

 

[Radon87000]

Just ran the Geekbench score on my iPhone 6. Scores the same as iOS 8 but dear lord this phone is horrendous to use on iOS 11. Funnily enough the Geekbench app itself was taking 3 seconds to load. Back to my iPhone X it is. I pity the guy who is still using this phone. Even my Moto G is faster.

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

I repeat this again, one more time, and as many times as you need.

You can't use content from a site that is owned by an Apple competitor.

YouTubers get money to make their videos, and someone has to pay them, I'm saying Apple, or Google, or Samsung, or anyone. But someone has to pay the phones, the bills, etc. because these guys live off YouTube, so, someone needs to pay them, and whomever pays them, is going to be benefited from it.

And as you can see, the view count of those POSITIVE videos is much lower than the view count of the NEGATIVE videos, for some reason...

...

So we can’t trust the CONTENT of YouTube videos because they’re hosted on a website owned by Google...?

 

[TimmeyCook]

Pretty much any app is slow. I used YouTube as that's one of my most used apps. Apple's own stock settings app shows a white screen for 2 seconds before loading.

Apple doesn't make YouTube App, so it's not their responsibility that Google keeps adding bloat to that App.

Doesn't matter if it's the most used or not.

So we can’t trust the CONTENT of YouTube videos because they’re hosted on a website owned by Google...?

Why should anyone trust YouTube, which is owned by Google?

Did you forget that Google is Apple's main competitor?

 

[dk001]

...




Look how bothered I am you don't recognize me an engineer (that I never said I was).



You are basically contradicting yourself.

Apple doesn't do planned obsolescence, which is designing products to fail after X time or Y use cycles.

Apple has been accused of that numerous times in the past, and always has been proven that Apple did not use planned obsolescence in COURT.

Did I say they deliberately design them that way? Did I say "Planned"? No. Stop reading into it and being deliberately misleading. I said it has to survive X/Y use. Once that point is reached, I seriously doubt Apple Engineers go forth and try to make it last forever. That is financially self defeating.

 

[I7guy]

...

So we can’t trust the CONTENT of YouTube videos because they’re hosted on a website owned by Google...?

You can trust any source you want. I’m not under any obligation to “trust” the same sources.

 

[TimmeyCook]

Those are benchmark scores. We have never claimed benchmark scores would be lowered. There is a difference between benchmarks and the operating system. I can install a crap ton of malware on my PC and slow the OS down to a crawl and it would still bench the same.

Since every user uses their devices differently, synthetic benchmarks are the only way of measuring performance and not just opening and closing apps like your YouTube friends like to do.

But if you want to go that route, Apple was caught throttling in benchmark scores just a month later after that Apple paid off report was released.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...-to-preserve-battery-life-benchmarks-suggest/

LOL, "paid off"...

What you said is ABSOLUTELY false.

Apple didn't throttle, like you said the benchmarks, in fact the benchmarks were slower because, as Apple explained, they were throttling devices with older batteries.

You have been proven wrong again, and again every single page in this thread, and you keep insisting in your "view", because fringe and marginalized "reviewers" on YouTube keep giving you something to believe in.

 

[Radon87000]

Apple doesn't make YouTube App, so it's not their responsibility that Google keeps adding bloat to that App.

Doesn't matter if it's the most used or not.

The YouTube app was an example. Pretty much any app has slowed down anyway. I also don't think its Google's fault as the YouTube app has been proven to launch faster in 12 than 11.

Since every user uses their devices differently, synthetic benchmarks are the only way of measuring performance and not just opening and closing apps like your YouTube friends like to do.

Which proves absolutely nothing as if we take 2 equivalent computers with equal specs, load one up with toolbars or anti viruses and the like and slow it down to the point the boot takes 5-10 minutes and the desktop takes ages to load and you still run a benchmark on this system, it will score the same as it did before.

Your entire argument is laughable. The iPhone 6 scores the absolute same as it did on iOS 8. No person who has owned this device will say it performs exactly the same as it did on iOS 8.

The benchmarks only quantify the raw performance of a processor with an error margin . It does not quantify the responsiveness of the operating system. As posted above Google Chrome has top scores on Windows in every synthetic benchmark but when it comes to scrolling any user who tries Edge and Chrome will prefer Edge.

The only way to measure performance is to check the app load times and compare the way its done in the YT videos

LOL, "paid off"...

What you said is ABSOLUTELY false.

Apple didn't throttle, like you said the benchmarks, in fact the benchmarks were slower because, as Apple explained, they were throttling devices with older batteries.

I find it convenient that the Futuremark guys in all their extensive testing did not find a single iPhone 6/6s or 7 which throttled. So yes I have my own bias about that report just like how you instantly disqualify any video uploaded to YouTube, when Apple themselves use their competitor's platform for marketing

e been proven wrong again, and again every single page in this thread, and you keep insisting in your "view", because fringe and marginalized "reviewers" on YouTube keep giving you something to believe in.

On the contrary, I have been proven right on every single page of this thread.

What you guys are debating and what I am saying is completely different and you completely ignore the argument I am making. I never said there wasn't an increase or decrease in synthetic benchmark scores. Its completely irrelevant to me as the benchmark scores even on a computer are hardly affected even if I manage to trash the entire operating system.

My basis for planned obsolescence has always been real world app launches and memory management. What's reflected in those YouTube videos is also observable on my phones. I am using Throttlegate and Touch Disease as a means to understand Apple's mentality and in each decision they took, they compromised user experience rather than take the hit to finances and fix a manufacturing defect. Hence their intentions are anything but noble when the phone slows down after every update.

I think the fact you guys don't have anything to address the main point I am making and instead try to resort to irrelevant stuff like Slingshot shows a lack of argument.

 

[C DM]

On the contrary, I have been proven right on every single page of this thread.

Unfortunately the unnecessary absolutes, extremes, and hyperbole, along with application of proof and facts to things that really aren't, ultimately undermines any potentially correct things that there might be.

 

[Radon87000]

Unfortunately the unnecessary absolutes, extremes, and hyperbole, along with application of proof and facts to things that really aren't, ultimately undermines any potentially correct things that there might be.

Its a hyperbole to you, not me. I find the iPhone 6 an unusable device on iOS 11. I find even the iPad Air 2 on iOS 11 nearing that level. The iPhone 7 on iOS 11 is the bare minimum for me to classify as a usable device which is enjoyable to use. Anything below that is compromising the experience for me. I guess my requirements are just higher than most.

 

[Feenician]

My basis for planned obsolescence has always been real world app launches and memory management

I'm not going to get into this any more than this one post. It's only to say you have contradicted yourself. Back when all these very videos showed iPhone to faster, much faster, than the competition you used to argue that sequentially opening and closing apps proved nothing, that it was all about micro-stutter, button response etc. etc. whatever the niggle de jour was.

I don’t open apps one after the other and using an S6 at work at one point I found that phone perfectly fast for my usage.

Funny how you've changed your tune there.

With that, I'm out.