iOS 12 and planned obsolescence

[Radon87000]

My personal opinion is I would rely on benchmarks more on videos that depict serial app openings, which is the epitome of anecdotal, one-off, etc and much easier(imo) to do video manipulation.

Those videos depict a difference much higher than what human error would cause. The iOS 7 version of the App Store loaded 7 seconds before the iOS 11 one on the 5s. Settings screen was launching 4 seconds faster on the 5s. This has been depicted in all videos and its too similar to be anecdotal the same way all videos agree on iOS 12 being faster than 11.

About my Windows example, I was using that to elucidate the inherent nature of benchmarks which is that they do not reflect the real world performance of the OS. If you run Geekbench on Windows XP and run it on Windows 10, it will score the same but according to PC World the Windows XP is faster.

In addition if what you say is true than this mean there were exactly zero performance improvements between iOS 10 and iOS 10.3.3 as they both bench the same but in fact performance has improved.

See Samsung(it took a while but they did get caught).

Same as Apple with Throttlegate. Took a while for Geekbench to catch them. At least Samsung was increasing performance and not decreasing.

And, tes, you have to compare the latest versions, but the benchmarks between ios 8 and ios 9 (which you distrust but it's really a good tell) is really a good indication that apple doesn't engage in what you say/claim for 5 or more years.

But why are 11.0 and 8.4.1 incomparable if they both bench the same? According to you they must perform the same then.

 

[jhuynh]

If I upgrade my 2007 computer from Windows XP to Windows 10, according to that PC World article you keep posting my device slows down but how can it slow down if it benches the same?

Do you not understand how benchmarks work and how that pertains to software at all? A benchmark is that, it's a standardized test that you perform on different devices to see how they perform when they run the same code. Every time you run a benchmark(same version number of the benchmark) you are always running the same code every time it runs.

Now lets simplify for you and say windows xp has a feature that when you click in the corner it runs code that is 100 lines of code and does something. But in Windows 10 they added anew feature so that when you click on the corner it also does another cool thing but now the code has ballooned to 200 lines of code for every click. Now the computer has to go through 100 extra lines of code to "do the same thing" on the new OS vs the old OS.

For something as complex as an OS, when you start adding new features and updates, changing one thing can have unintended effects on other areas of the OS. This is why there can be differences in performance between OS versions but they benchmark the same.

 

[Michael Goff]

Does anyone know if there's a way to mute certain phrases on MacRumors so I don't see stupid threads like this one?

 

[FFR]

Radon
If you believe so strongly in Apple and your made up conspiracy about planned obsolescence; why do you keep buying iPhones?

 

[Radon87000]

Do you not understand how benchmarks work and how that pertains to software at all? A benchmark is that, it's a standardized test that you perform on different devices to see how they perform when they run the same code. Every time you run a benchmark(same version number of the benchmark) you are always running the same code every time it runs.

Now lets simplify for you and say windows xp has a feature that when you click in the corner it runs code that is 100 lines of code and does something. But in Windows 10 they added anew feature so that when you click on the corner it also does another cool thing but now the code has ballooned to 200 lines of code for every click. Now the computer has to go through 100 extra lines of code to "do the same thing" on the new OS vs the old OS.

For something as complex as an OS, when you start adding new features and updates, changing one thing can have unintended effects on other areas of the OS. This is why there can be differences in performance between OS versions but they benchmark the same.

I agree with you but i7guy is claiming since it benchmarks the same, the OS has not slowed down

Radon
If you believe so strongly in Apple and your made up conspiracy about planned obsolescence; why do you keep buying iPhones?

Its not possible to avoid planned obsolescence if you want a specific product with a feature set. As I said multiple companies engage in planned obsolescence. Both NVIDIA and Logitech engage in planned obsolescence too and both provide a specific feature set I absolutely must have so I have to deal with it. I either compromise on the feature set or on the slowdown aspect of it.

 

[I7guy]

Those videos depict a difference much higher than what human error would cause.

Not in my opinion they don’t.

The iOS 7 version of the App Store loaded 7 seconds before the iOS 11 one on the 5s. Settings screen was launching 4 seconds faster on the 5s. This has been depicted in all videos and its too similar to be anecdotal the same way all videos agree on iOS 12 being faster than 11.

How do you explain why other things were fasternon iOS 11. All it takes is one thing to be faster to prove this false.

About my Windows example, I was using that to elucidate the inherent nature of benchmarks which is that they do not reflect the real world performance of the OS. If you run Geekbench on Windows XP and run it on Windows 10, it will score the same but according to PC World the Windows XP is faster.

This allegory relates to this how?

In addition if what you say is true than this mean there were exactly zero performance improvements between iOS 10 and iOS 10.3.3 as they both bench the same but in fact performance has improved.

The benchmarks prove Apple does not slow down releases.

Same as Apple with Throttlegate. Took a while for Geekbench to catch them. At least Samsung was increasing performance and not decreasing.

Power management or have the phone shut off. Your pick.

But why are 11.0 and 8.4.1 incomparable if they both bench the same? According to you they must perform the same then.

Already discussed this.

 

[FFR]

I agree with you but i7guy is claiming since it benchmarks the same, the OS has not slowed down



Its not possible to avoid planned obsolescence if you want a specific product with a feature set. As I said multiple companies engage in planned obsolescence. Both NVIDIA and Logitech engage in planned obsolescence too and both provide a specific feature set I absolutely must have so I have to deal with it. I either compromise on the feature set or on the slowdown aspect of it.

Wait your saying that it’s impossible to avoid planned obsolescence. Lol this just gets weirder and weirder.


You obviously harbour animosity towards Apple by your numerous posts.
Why get an iPhone?
It can’t be worth all this back and forth.

 

[I7guy]

Does anyone know if there's a way to mute certain phrases on MacRumors so I don't see stupid threads like this one?

Are you calling this thread stupid?

 

[Michael Goff]

Are you calling this thread stupid?

Is the sky blue and is oxygen good for you? This thread is where people go to repeat the same tired things over and over again. Yes, it's stupid to argue about whether or not Planned Obsolescence is a thing.

 

[FFR]

Is the sky blue and is oxygen good for you? This thread is where people go to repeat the same tired things over and over again. Yes, it's stupid to argue about whether or not Planned Obsolescence is a thing.

Apperntly it’s a thing and it inevitable no matter what you do...and they still choose to use iPhones. Smh

 

[Michael Goff]

Apperntly it’s a thing and it inevitable no matter what you do...and they still choose to use iPhones. Smh

Yeah, that's what I don't get. If I thought a company was actively trying to screw me over, I wouldn't be buying their products.

 

[einmusiker]

My 6s+ feels like a new phone with ios12. Maybe I won’t upgrade just yet

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

Radon
If you believe so strongly in Apple and your made up conspiracy about planned obsolescence; why do you keep buying iPhones?

I love how people keeping posting the same things that have already been discussed a million times. When don’t you read a few of the previous pages first?

 

[Radon87000]

Wait your saying that it’s impossible to avoid planned obsolescence. Lol this just gets weirder and weirder.


You obviously harbour animosity towards Apple by your numerous posts.
Why get an iPhone?
It can’t be worth all this back and forth.

You are right. I do not like Apple or NVIDIA's business practices. Both of them do shady stuff which is not customer friendly. The 3.5GB fiasco for the 970 and that intentional slowdown of the iPhone without telling anyone comes to mind. Based on some of their recent scandals, I do not think for one minute the improvement in performance on iOS 12 is a coincidence or the slowdown from iOS 8 till 12 is a sideffect of more features.


If I decide not to support companies that engage in planned obsolescence I am compromising on what I want. If I get an Android, there is no Watch or tablet on that side. So I have to deal with an iOS tablet, an Android phone and a Windows PC. They don't work together that well. If I get an AMD card, it won't handle 4k very well. So for a specific feature set I desire, I reluctantly buy their products.

If Google comes out with a watch and a tablet and I mean a Pixel Watch and a tablet like the Nexus 7 in 2013, I am open to options but they seem to have given up on those lately. For now I have dealt with the slowdown problem on iOS by keeping my iPad on iOS 10 and my X will probably stay on 12. I just have a problem with those who deny the existence of a slowdown. It's very clearly there. Some may not mind it, but it's there.
[doublepost=1530249797][/doublepost]

How do you explain why other things were fasternon iOS 11. All it takes is one thing to be faster to prove this false.

That's not how it works. In order to decide whether a release is slow or not, all use cases are considered and aggregated to come at a final verdict. By your logic, if everything on the phone was slower but the phone booted quicker iOS 11 is faster.

This allegory relates to this how?

The analogy proves benchmarks are unaffected by the OS slowdown which means they are not an indication of OS responsiveness.

The benchmarks prove Apple does not slow down releases.

According to the benchmarks there is ZERO slowdown between iOS 6 and iOS 10. There is also zero performance improvement between iOS 10.0 and iOS 10.3.3. Is this correct?

Power management or have the phone shut off. Your pick.

Why is this choice needed? My Nexus 5 from 2013 doesn't throttle nor does it shutdown. And this was a $400 phone at that time.

 

[iPadified]

Performance=Compute power/features

As a device compute power is constant, increasing the feature list in an OS gives worse performance. iOS feature list has grown constantly at a very high rate compered to MacOS. The newer processors also have support for some common tasks like video encoding that older processor may not have which muddles the performance picture.

 

[FFR]

You are right. I do not like Apple

And you still bought and iPhone.
Just to complain endlessy. Well good luck.

 

[I7guy]

...That's not how it works. In order to decide whether a release is slow or not, all use cases are considered and aggregated to come at a final verdict. By your logic, if everything on the phone was slower but the phone booted quicker iOS 11 is ...

That’s exactly how it works. If I can get my work done faster due to improvements than its faster.

You can’t have it both ways by saying 2 things are faster and 3 things are slower and therefore the next release is slower. You can say not slower or not faster.

As far as your nexus 5 I’ll bet I can find internet evidence that counters your use case.

 

[Radon87000]

That’s exactly how it works. If I can get my work done faster due to improvements than its faster.

You can’t have it both ways by saying 2 things are faster and 3 things are slower and therefore the next release is slower. You can say not slower or not faster.

That's how most benchmarks are written though. Read any review article. You will be sure to find particular area where a release is superior but if everything else is meh, then the conclusion reflects that. When comparing 2 phones, you are sure to find Pros and cons for each. No phone is perfect. You weight mathematically the advantages of one over the other. You get the one which has more advantages.

Also it isn't 2 vs 3. 12/15 iOS 7 beat iOS 11. The remaining 2 was a tie.1 was a win.

As far as your nexus 5 I’ll bet I can find internet evidence that counters your use case.

Of course you can. But I don't think any company was brought down to the level of issuing refunds and writing an apology letter to customers. Any articles you find will likely be isolated not mass scale like with Throttlegate. If you find an article where a Google apologised to customers for throttling on Nexus 5 let me know.

 

[I7guy]

That's how most benchmarks are written though. Read any review article. You will be sure to find particular area where a release is superior but if everything else is meh, then the conclusion reflects that. When comparing 2 phones, you are sure to find Pros and cons for each. No phone is perfect. You weight mathematically the advantages of one over the other. You get the one which has more advantages.

Also it isn't 2 vs 3. 12/15 iOS 7 beat iOS 11. The remaining 2 was a tie.1 was a win.


Of course you can. But I don't think any company was brought down to the level of issuing refunds and writing an apology letter to customers. Any articles you find will likely be isolated not mass scale like with Throttlegate. If you find an article where a Google apologised to customers for throttling on Nexus 5 let me know.

And that's the conclusion drawn by YT app hosters as well. But it now seems you are debating the metrics behind what constitutes faster or slower. This is not the INDY 500 nor do those idiotic YT videos or benchmarks usually, clearly show a winner in 100% categories. Therefore you say an ios release is mostly faster or not slower. This does contradict the thread title of P/O.

 

[Radon87000]

And that's the conclusion drawn by YT app hosters as well. But it now seems you are debating the metrics behind what constitutes faster or slower. This is not the INDY 500 nor do those idiotic YT videos or benchmarks usually, clearly show a winner in 100% categories. Therefore you say an ios release is mostly faster or not slower. This does contradict the thread title of P/O.

The question regarding planned obsolescence is simple. Was the device's performance maintained or not and if it wasn't is there a way to recover it or not. If the answer to any one of the questions is in the affirmative, planned obsolescence does not exist. Since the answer to both questions is in the negative it doesn't contradict P/O at all. I am sure if you compare RX Vega 64 and GTX 1080 you will find some games where 64 wins but the majority are won by 1080 hence the 1080 is the faster card
[doublepost=1530275035][/doublepost]We literally have headlines being made on P/O

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/j5kd7x/iphone-slow-planned-obsolescence-ios-12-wwdc

"iOS 12's Biggest Upgrade: An End to Planned Obsolescence Conspiracy Theories"

Its always been a popular idea that P/O was the reason behind the slowdown

 

[I7guy]

The question regarding planned obsolescence is simple. Was the device's performance maintained or not and if it wasn't is there a way to recover it or not. If the answer to any one of the questions is in the affirmative, planned obsolescence does not exist. Since the answer to both questions is in the negative it doesn't contradict P/O at all. I am sure if you compare RX Vega 64 and GTX 1080 you will find some games where 64 wins but the majority are won by 1080 hence the 1080 is the faster

"iOS 12's Biggest Upgrade: An End to Planned Obsolescence Conspiracy Theories"

Its always been a popular idea that P/O was the reason behind the slowdown

No that is not the question being asked. Moving the goalposts doesnt make this any truer.

The conspiracy question has always been does Apple maliciously slow down its devices to increase sales. This has been disproven, but there are those who refuse to accept this. It’s been proven Apple actually increases the performance across releases. This directly contradicts all conspiracy theories with factual, undeniable proof.

As far as the individual litmus test of what constitutes a faster release this will go around in circles until time comes to an end.

 

[Abazigal]

This has been disproven, but there are those who refuse to accept this.

This has always been the case with conspiracy theories. There is usually just enough (perceived) proof to keep the conspiracy going.

At the end of the day, neither side is going to convince the other.

It's funny, you know. I was watching this youtube video by "Painfully honest tech" the other day where he went on rant about how overpriced the iPhone X was, then went on to admit that he had bought 3 of them for him and his family. I am like ... Okay... So is that supposed to be Apple's fault?

 

[Radon87000]

This has always been the case with conspiracy theories. There is usually just enough (perceived) proof to keep the conspiracy going.

At the end of the day, neither sid is going to convince the other.

It's funny, you know. I was watching this youtube video by "Painfully honest tech" the other day where he went on rant about how overpriced the iPhone X was, then went on to admit that he had bought 3 of them for him and his family. I am like ... Okay... So is that supposed to be Apple's fault?

Well sometimes you really have no choice if the iPhone X meets the requirements so it’s either suck it up and buy it or compromise on your requirements. I bought an iPhone X as well and in my opinion it’s definitely overpriced for what it is but then that’s the case with many products which have an exclusive feature set which is desired. I spent an absurd amount on the 1080 Ti just because AMD hasn’t come out with a competitor for it and the prices are increasing even further this year as NVIDIA comes out with their Volta GPUs as they steamroll AMD.

It amazes me Google still hasn’t gotten the ecosystem thing figured out by now otherwise I would be out already. Samsung has their Tizen Gear Watch but no tablet.

Once the FaceID iPad comes out this year with no bezels, there would be no competent tablet alternative on the market.

In the meantime, in the absence of a solution to the slowdown problem I face on iOS and Google taking Wear and Tablets seriously, I will simply use a tvOS beta profile and never update the OS. I also get the satisfaction of being one the 20% who refuse to update the OS.

 

[Abazigal]

In the meantime, in the absence of a solution to the slowdown problem I face on iOS and Google taking Wear and Tablets seriously, I will simply use a tvOS beta profile and never update the OS. I also get the satisfaction of being one the 20% who refuse to update the OS.

Whatever rocks your boat, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[I7guy]

Well sometimes you really have no choice if the iPhone X meets the requirements so it’s either suck it up and buy it or compromise on your requirements. I bought an iPhone X as well and in my opinion it’s definitely overpriced for what it is but then that’s the case with many products which have an exclusive feature set which is desired. I spent an absurd amount on the 1080 Ti just because AMD hasn’t come out with a competitor for it and the prices are increasing even further this year as NVIDIA comes out with their Volta GPUs as they steamroll AMD.

It amazes me Google still hasn’t gotten the ecosystem thing figured out by now otherwise I would be out already. Samsung has their Tizen Gear Watch but no tablet.

Once the FaceID iPad comes out this year with no bezels, there would be no competent tablet alternative on the market.

In the meantime, in the absence of a solution to the slowdown problem I face on iOS and Google taking Wear and Tablets seriously, I will simply use a tvOS beta profile and never update the OS. I also get the satisfaction of being one the 20% who refuse to update the OS.

One does what they do. Don’t update iOS, Apple honestly doesn’t care. Buy the iPhone X for whatever rational you want.

But you are not going to convince me Apple has conspired to slow devices down for the only reason to increase sales.