Let's get one thing straight, Apple software quality is no where as good as it used to be!

[fisherking]

It makes sense when the big 'secret' projects at apple are AVR glasses...

...And a car.

The point I'm trying to make is that Apple is really shooting itself in the foot if it wants to move away from the personal computers category (a smartphone is a touch-based personal computer, of course) to categories where reliability and high quality is absolutely critical.

You want your brakes to always work, for example - not to crash occasionally.

I'd just like them to really start to prioritise stability over everything else.

Are the features that were launched in 15 for non 13 iPhones really worth rushing a release so that we could all have it in September? Has Focus modes and the Safari redesign really changed our lives?

Wouldn't it had been better if the software support for the 13 hardware had been decoupled from 15 so that 15 could've been launched when it was good and ready?

you're missing the point. apple is a ginormous company; it's not like they borrow the 3 people working on mac os to help with the apple watch, or stop working on new macbooks so they can work on apple tv.

apple isn't moving away from anything, they're expanding. and focus, or the revised safari, are just details; we get new features with every OS, this is not new with ios15.

ios 15 is working flawlessly here, and has been doing so since the early betas. that speaks for me, not for you, not for everyone. so, it's not whether 15 is 'good and ready', it's... what issues are you having? and why not start a thread here to get help?

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

I'd just like them to really start to prioritise stability over everything else.

Are the features that were launched in 15 for non 13 iPhones really worth rushing a release so that we could all have it in September? Has Focus modes and the Safari redesign really changed our lives?

Wouldn't it had been better if the software support for the 13 hardware had been decoupled from 15 so that 15 could've been launched when it was good and ready?

iOS 15 is damn near flawless on my 13 Pro but I couldn't agree more with this part of your post. I think it's gotten to the point where iOS doesn't really need to evolve as much as it needs to be refined.

 

[fisherking]

iOS 15 is damn near flawless on my 13 Pro but I couldn't agree more with this part of your post. I think it's gotten to the point where iOS doesn't really need to evolve as much as it needs to be refined.

honestly, people say this with every new verions of ios. and also, honestly, we've seen far more incremental change between OSes, than, say, significant innovation. i think what you're saying should happen is very-much what is happening.

to assume that any corporation isn't interested in offering 'new features!' with a new product is naive; apple is a business, not a public trust.

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

honestly, people say this with every new verions of ios. and also, honestly, we've seen far more incremental change between OSes, than, say, significant innovation. i think what you're saying should happen is very-much what is happening.

to assume that any corporation isn't interested in offering 'new features!' with a new product is naive; apple is a business, not a public trust.

Feature additions have absolutely slowed down over the past five or six years but Apple still insists on adding features with each new X.0 that just aren't ready for prime-time.

 

[fisherking]

Feature additions have absolutely slowed down over the past five or six years but Apple still insists on adding features with each new X.0 that just aren't ready for prime-time.

if you say so...

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

if you say so...

Can you elaborate just a touch? I'm a little confused as to where the disagreement stems.

 

[fisherking]

Can you elaborate just a touch? I'm a little confused as to where the disagreement stems.

not really a disagreement, sorry.i think apple is always straightening out something, trying to get new features up&running; that's why we get betas even after official releases... because every OS is, at any given moment, a work-in-progress.

so, some thing work day 1 of the official release, others are still being tweaked. guess we agree 👍

EDIT: people who know (& avoid) me on these forums know i am... (what's a polite word for combative)? combative. so, apologies...

 

[bluecoast]

iOS 15 is damn near flawless on my 13 Pro but I couldn't agree more with this part of your post. I think it's gotten to the point where iOS doesn't really need to evolve as much as it needs to be refined.

Fair enough. I think there’s a pattern where the new iOS release works great on this year’s new hardware but isn’t so great the older your phone is.

It was not good on my XR and I’m thankful I downgraded back to 14.8 (when that was possible).

Maybe it’s an evil plot by Apple to get users of older phones to upgrade, but I rather suspect that they run out of time before they can optimise the latest iOS version for processors that aren’t appearing in new hardware around its release.

 

[bluecoast]

you're missing the point. apple is a ginormous company; it's not like they borrow the 3 people working on mac os to help with the apple watch, or stop working on new macbooks so they can work on apple tv.

apple isn't moving away from anything, they're expanding. and focus, or the revised safari, are just details; we get new features with every OS, this is not new with ios15.

ios 15 is working flawlessly here, and has been doing so since the early betas. that speaks for me, not for you, not for everyone. so, it's not whether 15 is 'good and ready', it's... what issues are you having? and why not start a thread here to get help?

My issues were that it was terrible on my XR. Juddery animations where it was very smooth on 14.8 with the same hardware. Apps seemed to be purged from memory way more than 14.8. Thankfully I’m back on 14.8.

And I’m simply not a fan of the new Safari design. Even if you go back to the address bar on the top, most actions take longer to initiate.

I actually think having the address bar at the bottom of the screen is a great idea. I just think that the implementation is poor.

I’m not here to endlessly criticise Apple. I just think that they have big problems with their software quality - and they are increasingly making questionable UX choices.

As I said, from an engineering POV, I don’t think the issue is that their engineers are bad.

I think the issue is more Apple keeping slavishly to the Jobs era marketing driven software reveals of WWDC - and that the new version of the iOS always has to be tied to the hardware. And that iOS and its services are way way more complex than they were under Jobs.

I’d just like to see Apple rethink their software release approach. It’ll be better for them - and for us.

 

[fisherking]

My issues were that it was terrible on my XR. Juddery animations where it was very smooth on 14.8 with the same hardware. Apps seemed to be purged from memory way more than 14.8. Thankfully I’m back on 14.8.

And I’m simply not a fan of the new Safari design. Even if you go back to the address bar on the top, most actions take longer to initiate.

I actually think having the address bar at the bottom of the screen is a great idea. I just think that the implementation is poor.

I’m not here to endlessly criticise Apple. I just think that they have big problems with their software quality - and they are increasingly making questionable UX choices.

As I said, from an engineering POV, I don’t think the issue is that their engineers are bad.

I think the issue is more Apple keeping slavishly to the Jobs era marketing driven software reveals of WWDC - and that the new version of the iOS always has to be tied to the hardware. And that iOS and its services are way way more complex than they were under Jobs.

I’d just like to see Apple rethink their software release approach. It’ll be better for them - and for us.

you do realise that your experience with the XR doesn't speak for everyone? and i don't see safari actions taking 'longer to initiate'.

but apple is (am saying this again), a business, not a charity. and they seem to (IMHO) balance the commercial needs with the technical ones pretty well.

do they always get it right? of course not. hardware and software is an adventure into the unknown, not a science solely based on what was, but what can (& will be). so (also again), there will always be bugs, & people with specific issues.

when you consider all the different iphone models, all the OSes, all the 3rd-party apps, & how we each use our phones... it sometimes amazes me that anything works at all... 🤣

 

[Kung gu]

The only thing we need to get straight, OP, is that you spend a lot of time on the forum bashing Apple and their products.

So giving my opinion is bashing.

oh my, Apple ain't your friend its a corporation that seeks money and profits before sustainability and reparability and actively blocks right to repair. They are the only computer company that glues SSDs to laptops instead of providing a user replaceable M.2 SSD. They lie in their keynotes about "caring for the environment".

Have you noticed Apple software locking the iPhone parts. It's not your iPhone when they do that.

They are anti-consumer to the core.
You can't deny any of this, what I said is true.

Don't know why people defend apple??

 

[fisherking]

You can't deny any of this, what I said is true.

ha, thanks for being the only one who's right about everything..

 

[adrianlondon]

I have no experience with Android, but I've always felt it stupid that Apple can't separate their apps from the OS (either MacOS or iOS). For example, if they want to add a new feature to Safari, or fix a bug in the Calendar app, they have to release an entire new iOS/MacOS version for us to install.

I believe this is why irritating but small bugs in some of their apps and features never get fixed. They just can't be bothered to roll it into a new OS version while they're busy adding new features at the same time into it.

 

[Kung gu]

ha, thanks for being the only one who's right about everything..

I am not right about everything.

I have no experience with Android

Please try the pixel 5a or the 4a. It provides a clean, no bloat experience.

Android separates its stock apps from the OS and they get updated pretty regularly.

Also the androids OS updates themselves on Pixel phones require no restart.

IMO, android has a come a long way and its a fun experience to try something new.

 

[fisherking]

I am not right about everything.

glad we're in agreement about that.

apple is a corporation, you're right about that. so, they build their hardware and software as they see fit; that's their prerogative. and you can buy their products, or the products of another... corporation. that's how life works.

complaining solves nothing, but i agree; you have a right to your opinion. 👍

 

[bushman4]

Software always needs polishing. I’m surprised with all the people using the beta versions that it’s not better than what it is

 

[bluecoast]

you do realise that your experience with the XR doesn't speak for everyone? and i don't see safari actions taking 'longer to initiate'.

but apple is (am saying this again), a business, not a charity. and they seem to (IMHO) balance the commercial needs with the technical ones pretty well.

do they always get it right? of course not. hardware and software is an adventure into the unknown, not a science solely based on what was, but what can (& will be). so (also again), there will always be bugs, & people with specific issues.

when you consider all the different iphone models, all the OSes, all the 3rd-party apps, & how we each use our phones... it sometimes amazes me that anything works at all... 🤣

Sure I realise that my experience doesn't speak for everyone - neither does yours

I'm sure that the CSM stuff has something to do with it, but I think it's no surprise that 15 adoption is lagging compared to 14.

I guess my point is - I'm getting bored of the 'fail first' attitude to releasing very buggy software to production. I'd like it to be as near as damn perfect when it's launched. Yes, I do realise that no software is perfect. But we're seeing quite a lot of major bugs this time round.

And didn't today just see yet another bug fix release before the main 15.1 bug fix release? 🙄

it's great that Apple are fixing bugs fast and releasing these to production ASAP - but a bug fix patch every 8-10 days since 15.0 is not a good look and is indicative of iOS 15 being far from finished and stable when it launched.

I know that software is complex but a crash or a weird annoying bug should be something that's a surprise - not something that is par for the course. I can't think of any other industry that's like this.

 

[fisherking]

Sure I realise that my experience doesn't speak for everyone - neither does yours

I'm sure that the CSM stuff has something to do with it, but I think it's no surprise that 15 adoption is lagging compared to 14.

I guess my point is - I'm getting bored of the 'fail first' attitude to releasing very buggy software to production. I'd like it to be as near as damn perfect when it's launched. Yes, I do realise that no software is perfect. But we're seeing quite a lot of major bugs this time round.

And didn't today just see yet another bug fix release before the main 15.1 bug fix release? 🙄

it's great that Apple are fixing bugs fast and releasing these to production ASAP - but a bug fix patch every 8-10 days since 15.0 is not a good look and is indicative of iOS 15 being far from finished and stable when it launched.

I know that software is complex but a crash or a weird annoying bug should be something that's a surprise - not something that is par for the course. I can't think of any other industry that's like this.

i've stated several times in this thread that i don't speak for anyone but myself.

seriously, tho, considering your point-of-view; why update at all? or why not wait until a much later time? seems so much simpler than diving right in, then complaining that the water's cold.......

 

[psik]

Apple still has the chance to save its reputation.

 

[Al Rukh]

I miss the days of iOS 6. Once Apple went to iOS 7, they introduced more features after each revision but unable to clamp down on bugs. iOS 15 has been smooth for me so far. No matter how “bad” iOS is, it has no competitors. iOS is still the best in its class.

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

not really a disagreement, sorry.i think apple is always straightening out something, trying to get new features up&running; that's why we get betas even after official releases... because every OS is, at any given moment, a work-in-progress.

so, some thing work day 1 of the official release, others are still being tweaked. guess we agree 👍

EDIT: people who know (& avoid) me on these forums know i am... (what's a polite word for combative)? combative. so, apologies...

Hey, nothing wrong with having a strong opinion, my friend. Hell, I respect that. Just have evidence to back it up and it’ll be nothing but civil discussion with me.

Fair enough. I think there’s a pattern where the new iOS release works great on this year’s new hardware but isn’t so great the older your phone is.

It was not good on my XR and I’m thankful I downgraded back to 14.8 (when that was possible).

Maybe it’s an evil plot by Apple to get users of older phones to upgrade, but I rather suspect that they run out of time before they can optimise the latest iOS version for processors that aren’t appearing in new hardware around its release.

This is exactly what I’ve been saying. They’re focusing on their flagships rather than catering to the lame horse that’s still being dragged along by its reigns *cough6scough*

My issues were that it was terrible on my XR. Juddery animations where it was very smooth on 14.8 with the same hardware. Apps seemed to be purged from memory way more than 14.8. Thankfully I’m back on 14.8.

And I’m simply not a fan of the new Safari design. Even if you go back to the address bar on the top, most actions take longer to initiate.

I actually think having the address bar at the bottom of the screen is a great idea. I just think that the implementation is poor.

I’m not here to endlessly criticise Apple. I just think that they have big problems with their software quality - and they are increasingly making questionable UX choices.

As I said, from an engineering POV, I don’t think the issue is that their engineers are bad.

I think the issue is more Apple keeping slavishly to the Jobs era marketing driven software reveals of WWDC - and that the new version of the iOS always has to be tied to the hardware. And that iOS and its services are way way more complex than they were under Jobs.

I’d just like to see Apple rethink their software release approach. It’ll be better for them - and for us.

Emphasis mine. How many gigs of RAM does the XR have? And how many in the 13 Pro/Max? How about the M1 iPad Pro?

Clearly they’re building an OS for the more powerful devices and I say GOOD.

you do realise that your experience with the XR doesn't speak for everyone? and i don't see safari actions taking 'longer to initiate'.

but apple is (am saying this again), a business, not a charity. and they seem to (IMHO) balance the commercial needs with the technical ones pretty well.

do they always get it right? of course not. hardware and software is an adventure into the unknown, not a science solely based on what was, but what can (& will be). so (also again), there will always be bugs, & people with specific issues.

when you consider all the different iphone models, all the OSes, all the 3rd-party apps, & how we each use our phones... it sometimes amazes me that anything works at all... 🤣

Well said. You know how many people I’ve talked into at least looking at the new 13 line? How many have proceeded to buy? All because of the praise I’ve been singing. Call me a sheep if you want. This phone is 🔥.

I am not right about everything.



Please try the pixel 5a or the 4a. It provides a clean, no bloat experience.

Android separates its stock apps from the OS and they get updated pretty regularly.

Also the androids OS updates themselves on Pixel phones require no restart.

IMO, android has a come a long way and its a fun experience to try something new.

The one time I had with a non-Apple device that I didn’t want to toss into a fire was my original Pixel. If I had been able to use my Apple Watch with it I’d probably be all Pixel. It’s aaaaall about that ecosystem. It’s too late now though. I’d love to try a new Pixel when they drop but that would mean I’d lose all the integration I’ve built into our home. No thanks. Mayyyybe a hobby phone to root and tinker. A guy can dream I guess.

 

[ErikGrim]

A lot of you here weren't around for the System 6/7 days and it shows

 

[Kung gu]

A lot of you here weren't around for the System 6/7 days and it shows

Does that mean we excuse apples poor quality these days??

Apple was not a trillion dollar company back then and now you see how backwards Apple software has gone in quality these past 15 years.


one example is the music app on macOS, its utter garbage.

 

[pw5a29]

Given major updates on iOS 15 are still being delayed, it's just like an iOS 14.9 now.

These bugs some people are experiencing are just not acceptable, (it happened before, remember the iOS 4 alarm bug?)

But the situation seems like worsened nowadays, it's like they fixed a bug, but the codes just crashed and introduced two more somewhere else. Is iOS too complex and heavy nowadays for them to manage?

 

[bluecoast]

i've stated several times in this thread that i don't speak for anyone but myself.

seriously, tho, considering your point-of-view; why update at all? or why not wait until a much later time? seems so much simpler than diving right in, then complaining that the water's cold.......

Sure, I’m on 14.8