List of Apps that work with Spatial Audio

[marvin_h]

I guess this tech is a bit stalled in the marketplace. No new providers and not included in the barely-revised ATV. Still not enabled for two channel music, not even Apple’s own playback software (Music) nor streaming service.

Such a Shame. Works so well. Yet it feels like a tech demo at this point rather than a technology to embrace. Was thinking about pickimg up the Max headphones if it came to the ATV. That would be perfect for those times when neighbors or the household “don’t want to hear it” but I really do!

But alas that’s not a use case for this tech yet.

 

[musicpenguy]

I guess this tech is a bit stalled in the marketplace. No new providers and not included in the barely-revised ATV. Still not enabled for two channel music, not even Apple’s own playback software (Music) nor streaming service.

Such a Shame. Works so well. Yet it feels like a tech demo at this point rather than a technology to embrace. Was thinking about pickimg up the Max headphones if it came to the ATV. That would be perfect for those times when neighbors or the household “don’t want to hear it” but I really do!

But alas that’s not a use case for this tech yet.

Yea my hope is they figure out how to do it in the next tvOS major update this summer and maybe it is a Apple Music HiFi feature - surround sound music is a thing with SACD and HD DVD Audio and super impressive

 

[marvin_h]

Well we do know that recent beta software makes note of things like Atmos and lossless for their music service so maybe you will get your wish for surround music on the iPhone at least.

 

[bigshot]

I've been interested in multichannel audio for a long time. I have a dedicated 5.1 theater/listening room and tons of discs of multichannel music. I recently got a new iPhone 12 Pro Max, so I decided to pick up the AirPods Max so I could get multichannel audio for headphones. I've jumped through all the hoops to make it work, but so far it sounds *nothing* like my multichannel speaker system.

I signed up for HBO Max and AppleTV on my phone to access Atmos content and decided to do a test. Some of the most immersive mixes I've heard are the ones on the David Attenborough nature shows. Sounds in front, behind, 360 degrees. So I listened for a little bit to the Atmos headphone mix for the one on AppleTV and compared it to the stereo mix on a Netflix Attenborough episode, which is supposedly not in spatial audio.

First I listened to the Atmos one. The head tracking worked pretty well. Birds were swooping down and flying all around. The sound swooped around to sorta match the picture. It sounded very good, but not really the same as what I get in my theater. I struggled to discern any soundstage in front of me or surround behind me. So I switched over to Netflix. It was a show about insects in the jungle- bees flying around all over the place. I was surprised to find that the dimensionality of the sound sorta followed the picture, just like Atmos one. I closed my eyes so the picture on the screen wouldn't influence my perception of direction- It was just very good stereo. No front and back, only left and right. All of the dimensionality was created by my eyes, not my ears. I went back to the Atmos one again and put on the birds again and closed my eyes and held my head still. It was the exact same thing as the Netflix one. Just good sounding stereo.

Today I downloaded an app for Dolby Dimension headphones. It mostly just controls the functions of their particular models of headphones, but it has Atmos music samples that they say work on any headphones. It had a button to switch from Atmos to Stereo as the track played. The screen had a head with glowing stars flying around it to match the music. The stereo one sounded blander and had no flying stars on the screen. As I compared the two, I realized that the mixes weren't even similar. Things that potted back and forth in ping pong in the Atmos mix sat still in one place in the stereo one. (Listen to the opening few seconds of the World song. Those are not the same mix.) I closed my eyes and the Atmos mix without looking at the plasma field and stars graphics zipping around and it turned out to be plain stereo- left/right with no front/back. I googled for more Atmos demos and every one of them had a visual element designed to telegraph how you're supposed to hear the dimensionality. And every one was stereo with left/right and no real front/back.

Here is a link to that demo: https://products.dolby.com/atmos-visualizer-music/

I kind of like the head tracking, but moving the phone further away from the cans didn't affect depth, only side to side changed if I turned my head. I was hoping for something similar to the Smyth Realiser, which is capable of head tracking and custom HRTF to create true dimensional 5.1 with headphones. It's clear that Apple's spatial audio is not the same as surround sound. I can see why it's limited to video apps on the phone itself. Without the visual element, it would just sound like good stereo. I have to say, the whole thing feels like a con job.

Am I doing something wrong, or is the emperor truly naked?

 

[marvin_h]

That’s the strangest testing method I’ve read. Keep it simple. Compare Apples to Apples.

Use a service with spatial audio enabled like iTunes. Play an ATMOS movie. Turn spatial audio off. Watch five minutes. Turn spatial audio on, watch the same five minutes.

It is possible you won’t like hearing dialog coming from the screen regardless of where you move your head, for example, but I find the head tracking to be very precise and the discrete directionality and depth to be a tremendous upgrade over my 300$ Sony headphones in stereo in terms of clarity and directional cues.….even though the Sony headphones can do stereo audio better.

Does it sound like my friends 10,000$ 7.2.4 Atmos sound system? Nope. But it sure is a big step in the right direction.

 

[bigshot]

I'll google and see if I can do that test, but I don't think there is any way to select a normal stereo soundtrack in AppleTV+ or HBO Max on the iPhone. It defaults to the Atmos track.

I don't mind head tracking at all. In fact I like it. My problem with spatial audio is that it isn't spatial. It's still a line down through the middle of my ears. The sound doesn't seem to be coming from the screen. It's inside my head like stereo. And there is nothing over my head or behind me like you get with multichannel speaker systems.

I'm told the Smyth Realiser can give true dimensional sound, but it requires calibration to each individual's personal head related transfer function. I suspect that it isn't possible to get surround sound on headphones without custom HRTF.

I know that multichannel audio with headphones is still in its early stages, but the way spatial audio has been described in the sales literature is miles away from the way it actually works in the real world.

 

[Cashmonee]

I'll google and see if I can do that test, but I don't think there is any way to select a normal stereo soundtrack in AppleTV+ or HBO Max on the iPhone. It defaults to the Atmos track.

I don't mind head tracking at all. In fact I like it. My problem with spatial audio is that it isn't spatial. It's still a line down through the middle of my ears. The sound doesn't seem to be coming from the screen. It's inside my head like stereo. And there is nothing over my head or behind me like you get with multichannel speaker systems.

I'm told the Smyth Realiser can give true dimensional sound, but it requires calibration to each individual's personal head related transfer function. I suspect that it isn't possible to get surround sound on headphones without custom HRTF.

I know that multichannel audio with headphones is still in its early stages, but the way spatial audio has been described in the sales literature is miles away from the way it actually works in the real world.

I understand what you are saying. A lot of the hype around spatial audio is not really deserved. Or it is at least way over the top. You see this with lots of things. Sonos and the HomePod come to mind. They are good for what they are, but certainly no replacement for a dedicated system that is designed with no or minimal compromise.

You have to approach Spatial Audio the same way. It is better than using the in device option.

 

[bigshot]

I was hoping that it would be similar to the Smyth Realiser, or at least a step in that direction. I think that DSPs are the future of high end audio. There's no reason why signal processing couldn't emulate a room with speakers in an Atmos configuration. In fact, it should be possible to adjust the HRTF to emulate pinpoint sound location within the atmosphere of any sort of space from a cramped dungeon to the open air in the middle of a field. Stereo is fine. But when I built my 5.1 listening room I realized that there is a lot more to sound quality than what we normally get with headphones. When I see Dolby cheating with their Atmos for headphone demos, it kind of irritates me. Most people don't have multichannel sound systems in their home. They don't have anything to compare spatial audio to. It's deceptive.

 

[Cashmonee]

I was hoping that it would be similar to the Smyth Realiser, or at least a step in that direction. I think that DSPs are the future of high end audio. There's no reason why signal processing couldn't emulate a room with speakers in an Atmos configuration. In fact, it should be possible to adjust the HRTF to emulate pinpoint sound location within the atmosphere of any sort of space from a cramped dungeon to the open air in the middle of a field. Stereo is fine. But when I built my 5.1 listening room I realized that there is a lot more to sound quality than what we normally get with headphones. When I see Dolby cheating with their Atmos for headphone demos, it kind of irritates me. Most people don't have multichannel sound systems in their home. They don't have anything to compare spatial audio to. It's deceptive.

I 100% agree that there is a lot of deception going on. Atmos is getting bastardized in order to push manufacturers to pay the license fee on soundbars and speaker setups that will never be able to give anything remotely resembling true Atmos experience.

 

[marvin_h]

Wow, I guess my experience is different. Albeit they use a generic HRTF and a custom one would be cool, but compared with something like the Out of My Head software and just about anything else short of a multithousand dollar Smyth system, it is pretty impressive, whether the source content is 5.1 or ATMOS.

My main complaint is just the opposite: it is good enough that I would like to use it in more situations.

1). I would like to be able to use it with the AppleTV.
2). I would like it to work with stereo sources.
3). I would like it to work with on all or any apps, not just those that allow it (eg, Netflix doesn't allow it).

 

[JeffPerrin]

That’s the strangest testing method I’ve read. Keep it simple. Compare Apples to Apples.

Use a service with spatial audio enabled like iTunes. Play an ATMOS movie. Turn spatial audio off. Watch five minutes. Turn spatial audio on, watch the same five minutes.

In case you missed my post on page 1, You can do this with the free 5.1 test track in my Surround Speaker Check app. ie. Run the test, swipe down from the upper right corner of your iPhone screen to open iOS Control Center, long press on the volume control and from there you'll be able to toggle spatial audio on & off while 5.1 track plays.

With the surround speaker channels deliberately isolated and compared to the whole mix, I believe it's the best (technical) test available for hearing how well Apple converts surround tracks to spatial audio for headphones.

My take: Does spatial audio in AirPods sound like a true, physical surround speaker system? Of course not. (Different physics - apples to oranges.) Does Apple's spatial audio effectively make use of the extra surround sound audio tracks for creating immersive audio in a headphone experience? Definitely yes! ??

 

[bigshot]

I downloaded that 5.1 check app and deleted it. The lefts sounded identical and the rights sounded identical. No front and back at all. There was no front and back in the musical samples. And all of the music comparisons I've heard don't appear to be direct stereo fold downs. They appear to be completely different mixes that have been deliberately hobbled.

Perhaps the stock HRTF works for some people. It sure doesn't for me. I like the AirPods Max a lot. But for the features and response, not for the spatial audio. I can get a little better sound listening to my regular wired headphones, as long as it's a really good mix.

I wouldn't call this surround sound or 5.1 or Atmos. I know what that sounds like from my speaker system. I'd just call this darn good headphones. My wired ones are better, but they don't have all the features. They're just regular headphones without all the Apple bells and whistles.

 

[haralds]

Apple Music was just announced together with Apple Lossless support.

 

[dandrewk]

Apple Music was just announced together with Apple Lossless support.

All Apple BT headphones won't support lossless audio. For that, you will need a direct, wired connection that includes an external DAC.

However, Spatial Audio w/Atmos is incoming. That should be interesting.

 

[bigshot]

Amazon Unlimited just matched Apple. HD Audio is now included with their regular music accounts.

EDIT: I cancelled Amazon Unltd HD because it created clicks in the sound with my AirPods Max. Went back to regular Amazon Unltd. Not much of a loss. They sound the same.

 

[jonobin]

Since Apple Music with spatial audio is compatible with every AirPods ever make, why it's not possible to enable it with streaming services?

 

[haralds]

I am sure that Spatial Audio, like iMessage and Facetime, will just be yet another feature that will be locked to Apple devices and entice and discourage you from leaving the Apple ecosystem/walled garden.

Which makes sense. Why waste time and money, and especially time on this feature if it returns you profits in the long run? Apple is a business after all.

There are also technical reasons for this.

 

[bigshot]

I suspect that spatial audio involves a simple tag that switches on the head tracking. If it involves multichannel processing, all of that is done upstream and the signal that is passed to the AirPods Max is just a regular stereo signal that has out of phase content that gets decoded by a DSP like Dolby's Pro Logic. It isn't multichannel at all, so it can be passed through plain vanilla stereo lossy AAC files.

Without custom HRTF, I doubt it will even sound dimensional to an awful lot of people. The equalization and spatial audio settings in iOS are woefully inadequate. At this point, I think Apple is depending on the Emperor's New Clothes effect to sell the feature to the general public.

 

[marvin_h]

I am astonished at how well it anchors the center channel to the middle of the sound field and makes it far more discrete and intelligible than a traditional stereo representation of a movie soundtrack.

 

[marvin_h]

In case you missed my post on page 1, You can do this with the free 5.1 test track in my Surround Speaker Check app. ie. Run the test, swipe down from the upper right corner of your iPhone screen to open iOS Control Center, long press on the volume control and from there you'll be able to toggle spatial audio on & off while 5.1 track plays.

With the surround speaker channels deliberately isolated and compared to the whole mix, I believe it's the best (technical) test available for hearing how well Apple converts surround tracks to spatial audio for headphones.

My take: Does spatial audio in AirPods sound like a true, physical surround speaker system? Of course not. (Different physics - apples to oranges.) Does Apple's spatial audio effectively make use of the extra surround sound audio tracks for creating immersive audio in a headphone experience? Definitely yes! ??

Good point.

And it just goes to show how easy it is for app developers to allow this feature (cough cough I’m looking at you Netflix).

No end user needs to avail themselves of it. If they like traditional stereo that’s fine and still totally accessible to them. But for those of us that appreciate more directional cues and that clear distinct center channel for dialog, if app developers just take that extra few minutes to enable it, we are golden.

 

[bigshot]

I am astonished at how well it anchors the center channel to the middle of the sound field and makes it far more discrete and intelligible than a traditional stereo representation of a movie soundtrack.

It is just making the dialogue pure mono. Mono always sits dead center in headphones. Back in the 50s and 60s, vocals and dialogue were always centered by making them mono. Mixes have gotten more complex since then and they apply stereo envelopes to the dialogue track.

I've compared Atmos to standard stereo apples to apples and there isn't any appreciable difference.

 

[marvin_h]

Yeah, I agree, it is awesome.

Great increase in dialog clarity for 5.1 material -- similar to when I added a center speaker to my home theater setup.

 

[bigshot]

That is just the way it's folding down to normal stereo. You're comparing two different mixes. The AirPod Max don't reproduce any depth forward or back, just right and left.

I compared a David Attenborough documentary on HBO Max in Atmos to a David Attenborough documentary on Netflix in stereo. They both sounded equal in sound quality. Atmos on AirPods is like the emperor's new clothes.

 

[marvin_h]

I’m so sorry it’s not working for you!

I bought Tenet on iTunes and toggled spatial audio on and off and on my AirPod pro ear buds it sounds radically clearer when enabling spatial audio on that 5.1 mix.

 

[bigshot]

I'm betting those are two completely different mixes and the mixes are responsible for the difference, not spatial audio. Back when hybrid SACDs came out, I did some comparisons between the CD layer and the SACD layer. I found out that they were using new remastering on the SACD layer, and old unremastered tracks on the CD layer. They were deliberately hobbling the CD layer to make the SACD layer sound better. When I found an SACD with identical mastering on both layers, there was no difference.