M1 Pro/Max's GPU performance for gaming is quite poor.

[Colstan]

MrMacRight has released a performance video running on the M1 Max with 32 GPU cores.

The most interesting data is on Baldur's Gate 3, which is still in early access. He's running Patch 5, because Patch 6 isn't ready for native M1 yet. So, these aren't necessarily representative of the performance of the release version.

Of note, at 1440p, he's maxing out at a solid 120fps, at 4K Ultra he is getting around 60fps. Also, Larian, Elverils and Apple's engineers are working together to implement both EDR and AMD's FSR in BG3. This is the first real glimpse that we are getting of the capabilities of pro Apple Silicon while playing a performance intensive computer game.

 

[Serban55]

I decided to re-install WoW on my M1 Max and see how it performed on my Pro Display XDR at full 6k resolution.

Setting graphics to 4 and it's locked at 60 fps (at least in the starting area). At full 10/10 graphics it drops down to about 30 fps.

If that's not impressive then I don't know what is.

of course its impressive, dont follow these envy people that dont even have an M1 max on their hands
What apple has done in 1 year....compared what other have done in 20 years...its magnificent

 

[Jorbanead]

Wrong chart. This is the one where Apple compared to two 3080 laptops (155W 3080 MSI GE76 Raider 11UH-053 and 105W 3080 Razer Blade 15 Advanced RZ09-0409CE53). Those are max TGP but it's usually configurable lower depending on workload requirement.

Ah you’re right thanks for checking that. Though in that graphic they still don’t mention gaming, and it of course doesn’t reach the same performance as the mobile 3080. Also my assumption is that they’re referencing tests they’ve done that use native applications that compare to the 3070/3080. So when people compare non-native games to this chart I think it’s a bit misleading. I doubt Apple, in any of their tests, was testing non-native games.

 

[magbarn]

The Windows version has raytracing and with everything maxed out on the PC my 2080 Ti can't even run the game at 4k 60 fps.

WoW's graphics engine has been completely overhauled multiple times during those 17 years and it's silly to pretend it's still the same as it was in 2004.

The sad thing is despite using all that graphics power, it doesn't look next gen like RDR2/cyberpunk which look crazy good on my 3090 with all the eye candy turned on with my LG OLED

 

[Jorbanead]

What you are doing now is called gaslighting.
Just another interwebz kid that ran out of arguments.

My arguments are posted throughout this discussion and nothing you have said has changed my arguments - thus I have nothing new to say to you. If you choose to misinterpret them or take them out of context - that’s on you. I have discussed gaming several times and how creative workflows relate to the original topic at hand. If you feel it’s irrelevant that’s fine. I’ll go on with my day.

Apple compared 32 cores to mobile 3080 and yet it doesn't perform well and that's the problem.

This is what Sunny said, and all of my comments have been directed at their fixation on the infographic Apple used where they made this comparison. My argument in summary is that “Apple wasn’t focused on gaming in this infographic” yet this is the bases of the entire post. This is why I have brought up creative workflows into the conversations as i believe Any comment about how Apple wasn’t truthful in their claims by using gaming as a reference, in my opinion, is misleading and/or misinterpreting the intent of these graphics.

 

[jmho]

The sad thing is despite using all that graphics power, it doesn't look next gen like RDR2/cyberpunk which look crazy good on my 3090 with all the eye candy turned on with my LG OLED

The problem is a 3090 can't even run Cyberpunk at 4k 60hz, even with DLSS (unless you turn off RTX), let alone 6k.

If you want to game at 6k, you're probably going to need an older game like WoW even on a good desktop PC.

 

[JMacHack]

Doom Eternal would be a prime showcase since it's a recent 2020 release, very well Vulkan optimized for minimal hardware and MacOS supports MoltenVK Vulkan to Metal translation. However, it's listed as unplayable for some reason. Wonder if it's because DirectX to Metal translation is more mature or due to DRM but a DRM-less version exists.

Iirc the drm that it used is incompatible with MacOS and Linux, but the drm free version is out for Linux (?).

It’s probably a case of nobody taking the time to even tinker with moltenvk enough that they can guarantee it’ll run on MacOS.

 

[JMacHack]

The sad thing is despite using all that graphics power, it doesn't look next gen like RDR2/cyberpunk which look crazy good on my 3090 with all the eye candy turned on with my LG OLED

Let’s get our expectations in check, a 3090 is a 400w card. An SoC using 100 watts or so isn’t going to match that unless there’s something seriously wrong (or the card is a Vega 64)

 

[diamond.g]

Let’s get our expectations in check, a 3090 is a 400w card. An SoC using 100 watts or so isn’t going to match that unless there’s something seriously wrong (or the card is a Vega 64)

Vega 64’s are furnaces, lol.

 

[JMacHack]

Vega 64’s are furnaces, lol.

That being the joke.

 

[diamond.g]

That being the joke.

Clearly I am slow on the uptake. Lol.
GCN lasted longer than it should have (for rasterization).

 

[magbarn]

Let’s get our expectations in check, a 3090 is a 400w card. An SoC using 100 watts or so isn’t going to match that unless there’s something seriously wrong (or the card is a Vega 64)

I’m talking WoW’s engine. Not the M1 max gpu

 

[Nightfury326]

This is an optimization issue which is both good and bad. There aren’t too many really graphically intensive games with well optimized Metal ports and I’ve only heard of a couple with well optimized M1 ports (people say the upcoming BG3 game runs really well on the M1 GPU). Being a TBDR GPU means it’s less expensive in ALUs to get the same graphics output but if the graphics engine is expecting an IMR GPU it won’t take advantage of the TBDR system while being hit by its limitations.

The good news is that the hardware is indeed probably pretty good. The bad news is that to get most out of it requires an even more significant rewrite of the graphics engine than just porting to Metal which is already a stumbling block. So a lot of the potential may go unrealized in practice. Obviously mid-tier and indie games that use an off the shelf graphics engine like Unity will likely suffer less from this as the engine devs are more likely to optimize for different scenarios (that’s a selling point for them) than those building a bespoke engine meant to push a console or PC to its limits.

This has basically been my experience with running even Apple Arcade games. Eventually, "Finder" of all apps- takes up too much memory and then I'm forced to restart (which- compared to much older laptops is a breeze anyway)

The RAM management is a big issue from what I've found. I can't seem to just have a bunch of tabs open without getting a Force Quit window eventually.

 

[diamond.g]

I’m talking WoW’s engine. Not the M1 max gpu

It has been revamped, but due the to games aesthetic it isn't anything to write home about. Even with RT enabled it doesn't really make much of an obvious difference.

 

[Serban55]

sunny5 has left the chat )) the max gpu performance is impressive
We can continue with the gaming in this
thread https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...e-gpu-matches-rtx-3080-mobile.2317622/page-41

 

[gagaliya]

You guys are all arguing over gibbish.

1) Game performance is based on its developers implementation, how well they optimize

2) In term of raw hardware, it’s pretty clear m1 max is some where between non-throttled mobile 3070 and 3080. This is 100% evident from baldur’s gate 3 testings - a game with native Mac implementation and proper optimized.

3) The issue is majority of games are not well implemented where mac is just an afterthought, so in summary m1 max hardware is fine, but there is just a tiny library of properly optimized game for it. Where majority of the game you will have to accept performance degradation due to poor optimization compared to the pc counterpart.

it’s something I am struggling with too - get a maxed out m1 max as the sole computer and accept gaming performance will be lower than pc for most games. Or get the cheapest m1 pro for everything except games, and another gaming desktop pc for games only…cost wise they come out to be same….just having a single mbp is a much more elegant setup wise. What to do…

 

[Jorbanead]

You guys are all arguing over gibbish.

1) Game performance is based on its developers implementation, how well they optimize

Yup this is what I said pages ago - Sunny didn’t seem to like it 🤷‍♂️

 

[vir]

I said that too.

 

[Serban55]

Yup this is what I said pages ago - Sunny didn’t seem to like it 🤷‍♂️

some people dont like what they cant understand instead of learning
Another proof that these can be on par or better than 3080

 

[Serban55]

These macbooks pro im starting to think for productivity, are too cheap compared to the competition
This year Apple brought a rock solid iphone 13 with impressive performance/display/battery life and now these macs
Well done Apple, sunny was called into the fried chicken Intel forums

 

[leman]

The complete lack of native games would be the 5 million ton elephant in the room. 99% of games you can play are running on messy, performance-damaging compatibility layers that are going to go away in a few years anyways. It's really, shockingly barren. You can't ignore it and talk about performance only. As a Mac fan of multiple decades who gamed (and developed games) that entire time on the platform, it's just the saddest thing to me. I had such a passion for the artform.

Lack of native games is nothing new to the platform. When did the Mac actually have native games? Twenty years ago?

With the new hardware and tools our chance to get high quality games is the best in over a decade. It will take time of course, we need the AS macs to reach proper market saturation.

 

[Kpjoslee]

With the new hardware and tools our chance to get high quality games is the best in over a decade. It will take time of course, we need the AS macs to reach proper market saturation.

That alone won't be enough. Market saturation doesn't matter when overwhelming majority of Mac buyers are not purchasing Mac to play games in the first place. I am willing to bet that even after 4-5 years, we still going to talk about how Mac platform has no games despite having a capable hardware.

 

[edfoo]

That alone won't be enough. Market saturation doesn't matter when overwhelming majority of Mac buyers are not purchasing Mac to play games in the first place. I am willing to bet that even after 4-5 years, we still going to talk about how Mac platform has no games despite having a capable hardware.

Agree. These laptops have the hardware capable of gaming, but with the lack of support from most game developers and Apple themselves, gaming with Mac is still pretty dead in the water.

 

[thepear]

Problem solved

 

[jeanlain]

But then you get new problems.