M2 pro Macbook Pro vs M3 Macbook air

[DaveEcc]

How long are you keeping the machine? 5 years? If so, the $100 difference is $20/year, or $1.67/mo. Would you rather have a sharper screen, better audio, more ports, or an extra $1.67/mo and less weight.

edit: just saw fan comment... I've have the M1Pro since launched. I have not heard the fans. My old 2013 MBP was a jet engine.

 

[Milly342]

How long are you keeping the machine? 5 years? If so, the $100 difference is $20/year, or $1.67/mo. Would you rather have a sharper screen, better audio, more ports, or an extra $1.67/mo and less weight.

thats true, is it a noticeable difference that the m3 has a faster single core score? im confused on what tasks are single core and what are multi core

 

[TechnoMonk]

Im not doing anything crazy, alsois the fan noise a big deal?

I have an M1 Max, I barely hear fan even when the CPU/GPU both are running at 90+%. Get a MBP, try it and return it, if you don’t like. Apple has a decent return policy, use it and decide.

 

[Milly342]

I have an M1 Max, I barely hear fan even when the CPU/GPU both are running at 90+%. Get a MBP, try it and return it. Apple has a decent return policy, use it and decide.

thanks man, i heard even the M1 silicon is still good

 

[DaveEcc]

thats true, is it a noticeable difference that the m3 has a faster single core score? im confused on what tasks are single core and what are multi core

The M3 does have faster single core, and nearly as fast multicore, and newer GPU features like ray tracing... So, CPU wise, the M3 is better for nearly everything. But the M2 Pro isn't far behind, and you get extra USB-C ports, SD card reader, HDMI port, higher res screen, better speakers.

Either one will be great. If you're a photographer using SD cards, plan on an external monitor, external storage, or a graphics artists where the improved screen is useful, not a headphone user, and will appreciate the improved sound the M2Pro can be a better overall value, despite the CPU being a bit older. Only you know how you will use the machine.

It's hard to give a specific example of what uses multiple cores, as each program will be different. In terms of simple vs. complex, well, simple things will be done quickly anyway, so it's not terribly important that one is faster. For tasks that take a while, programmers try to find a way to speed things up with multiple threads, so you often look towards multi-threaded performance... but sometimes there are too many interdependencies to try to figure out how to do things in parallel and a programmer will make something single threaded for the sake of simplicity. You really need to check on an app by app basis whether they're using multiple cores when doing a complex operation.

 

[Milly342]

The M3 does have faster single core, and nearly as fast multicore, and newer GPU features like ray tracing... So, CPU wise, the M3 is better for nearly everything. But the M2 Pro isn't far behind, and you get extra USB-C ports, SD card reader, HDMI port, higher res screen, better speakers.

Either one will be great. If you're a photographer using SD cards, plan on an external monitor, external storage, or a graphics artists where the improved screen is useful, not a headphone user, and will appreciate the improved sound the M2Pro can be a better overall value, despite the CPU being a bit older. Only you know how you will use the machine.

It's hard to give a specific example of what uses multiple cores, as each program will be different. In terms of simple vs. complex, well, simple things will be done quickly anyway, so it's not terribly important that one is faster. For tasks that take a while, programmers try to find a way to speed things up with multiple threads, so you often look towards multi-threaded performance... but sometimes there are too many interdependencies to try to figure out how to do things in parallel and a programmer will make something single threaded for the sake of simplicity. You really need to check on an app by app basis whether they're using multiple cores when doing a complex operation.

I just use gerforce now, youtube, netlfix, taking notes, web browsing thats bascially all I do, so the other "pro" features arent useful to me

 

[coachgq]

Is apple certified refurbished legit? Like is it just as good as new?

Apple certified is the only certified to get. 100% legit.

 

[Milly342]

Apple certified is the only certified to get. 100% legit.

thanks man

 

[DaveEcc]

I just use gerforce now, youtube, netlfix, taking notes, web browsing thats bascially all I do, so the other "pro" features arent useful to me

Maybe you want an iPad instead, so you can take notes with a pencil?

 

[Milly342]

Maybe you want an iPad instead, so you can take notes with a pencil?

I never really liked the ipad, i meant like taking notes on google docs

 

[PaperMag]

Yep. I had an Apple Store person tell me that the logic boards are taken out of returned/traded in machines and put into new cases with new batteries. Which makes sense, a company valued like Apple would want to maintain their image.

Apple isn't allowed to sell returned/traded in devices as new, so those machines go to the Refurbished store - even if the customer returns them the next day.

Apple only treats iOS devices that way. Apple used to do the same with Macs but their newer policy is to only replace parts as needed. (Source)

I'm attaching a screenshot of what Apple's landing page used to say as proof that previous policy was to replace every Mac's battery and outer shell.

 

[Iwavvns]

Apple only treats iOS devices that way. Apple used to do the same with Macs but their newer policy is to only replace parts as needed. (Source)

I'm attaching a screenshot of what Apple's landing page used to say as proof that previous policy was to replace every Mac's battery and outer shell.

Ah, so they change that, they probably realized they were losing money that way (new battery, new screen, new trackpad, etc.). Thank you very much for letting us know.

 

[PaperMag]

Hi, Im going into this college this fall semester and upgrading my 2020 i3 Macbook Air. As i was looking I saw a $1400 m3 MacBook Air (13 inch) with 16 GB of RAM and a 512 ssd. Furthermore, I saw an Apple refurbished M2 Pro MacBook Pro with 16 GB of RAM and 512 SD and it would cost $1500. I use my laptop for web browsing, Geforce Now, YouTube, and Netflix. I like the weight of the air better but I also don't mind the better screen of the MacBook Pro.

Does the 120hz, faster chip, and greater brightness outweigh the weight of the MacBook air?

Here's my thinking:

Use Case:	Which is better:	Why?
Web browsing and general productivity	Tie	–
Geforce Now	M3 Air	M3 chip in MacBook Air has AV1 hardware accelerated decoding
Youtube/Music	M2 Pro MBP	Better speakers
Netflix/Streaming	M2 Pro MBP	HDR video, Better speakers, plays 24 fps natively

I don't think the MBP screen is perfect or as amazing as people claim. It has slow pixel response, so the 120Hz is smudgy and ghosty, and has blooming in dark scenes, some horrifically bad. But outside of some issues, its better for movies and TV shows in general due to native 24fps, HDR1000 capability, and due to better and louder/warmer speakers (more bass). It also has 0.6 more inches of display size which is not nothing. But its heavier and less enjoyable to hold and carry around with.

I love my 13" M2 Air because its a joy to walk around with and travel with and bring into bed with for reading on streaming. I just appreciate the lightness from a sensory perspective. Not everybody cares about that. I have an external display for work hours so its smaller display size isn't a negative when I need to work on massive projects. To me it's the perfect laptop and I have no major pain points other than wishing it had variable refresh rate for 24fps movies. I have no issues recommending the M2 Air. But for $100 more, you might as well get the 14-inch MBP if its going to be your only computer and only display (meaning you don't own a TV for movie/tv show watching). For instance, if this is your main device for a dorm or bedroom, and you need to blast music while you're getting ready for class, the MacBook Pro is a couple notches better in sound quality and loudness. I have a Homepods and Airpods for music, and a TV for movies, so I don't need my laptop to be optimized for those things, but if you do, might as well go for the MBP.

 

[Milly342]

Here's my thinking:

Use Case:	Which is better:	Why?
Web browsing and general productivity	Tie	–
Geforce Now	M3 Air	M3 chip in MacBook Air has AV1 hardware accelerated decoding
Youtube/Music	M2 Pro MBP	Better speakers
Netflix/Streaming	M2 Pro MBP	HDR video, Better speakers, plays 24 fps natively

I don't think the MBP screen is perfect or as amazing as people claim. It has slow pixel response, so the 120Hz is smudgy and ghosty, and has blooming in dark scenes, some horrifically bad. But outside of some issues, its better for movies and TV shows in general due to native 24fps, HDR1000 capability, and due to better and louder/warmer speakers (more bass). It also has 0.6 more inches of display size which is not nothing. But its heavier and less enjoyable to hold and carry around with.

I love my 13" M2 Air because its a joy to walk around with and travel with and bring into bed with for reading on streaming. I just appreciate the lightness from a sensory perspective. Not everybody cares about that. I have an external display for work hours so its smaller display size isn't a negative when I need to work on massive projects. To me it's the perfect laptop and I have no major pain points other than wishing it had variable refresh rate for 24fps movies. I have no issues recommending the M2 Air. But for $100 more, you might as well get the 14-inch MBP if its going to be your only computer and only display (meaning you don't own a TV for movie/tv show watching). For instance, if this is your main device for a dorm or bedroom, and you need to blast music while you're getting ready for class, the MacBook Pro is a couple notches better in sound quality and loudness. I have a Homepods and Airpods for music, and a TV for movies, so I don't need my laptop to be optimized for those things, but if you do, might as well go for the MBP.

if i may asked what is Av1 encoding?

 

[PaperMag]

Ah, so they change that, they probably realized they were losing money that way (new battery, new screen, new trackpad, etc.). Thank you very much for letting us know.

I believe they changed that policy in 2020. If you recall, many of their Mac models were backed up by well over a month, due to the many supply chain pandemic issues, so I speculate Apple had to change policy or be forced to further bottleneck production.

 

[Milly342]

I believe they changed that policy in 2020. If you recall, many of their Mac models were backed up by well over a month, due to the many supply chain pandemic issues, so I speculate Apple had to change policy or be forced to further bottleneck production.

that would make sense

 

[PaperMag]

if i may asked what is Av1 encoding?

Decoding not encoding.

I can take a CD and encode the WAV files into mp3 files that is 1/10th the size. That makes it 10x easier and cheaper to stream, if I'm Spotify. But to listen to spotify, your phone or Mac needs to

1. receive the mp3 stream
2. then—in real time—decode the mp3 into uncompressed data for the audio card

So decoding is important.

Its the same thing with video and images. A computer can encode media into a compressed codec, like H.265, but then a computer must decode the codec if it wants to play it.

A CPU encoding or decoding a codec wastes CPU cycles (and also heat and battery/energy). So chip makers dedicate some transistors on the chip to encoding and/or decoding the codec, so the CPU itself doesn't have to. This is how an Apple Silicon Mac can play video for like 18 hours, because the CPU is barely working during the decoding, instead the media engine is doing most of the decoding, saving battery life.

AVI is 30% more efficient, so 30% smaller files, or even smaller than that with Adaptive Quantization—which means the encoder can select what parts of the image need to be high quality (eg. two people fighting) and can lower quality of background imagery during action, for example—all to save file space. Its like a codec more optimized for 4K streaming. So YouTube, Netflix, NVIDIA, etc are eager to use it, but they aren't going to send it if you don't have hardware decoding. Well the new M3 chip has hardware decoding.

Its not the end of the world for everyone else—we'll continue to stream things in H.265 (what Apple calls HEVC). But in theory AVI means frames are sent to you faster when streaming games, so you would be playing games in a higher frame rate. Of course, in practice, there are more variables involved, including the quality of your connection, but in theory—all other things being equal and not bottlenecked—AVI should result in more FPS—or the same FPS but a higher-quality image.

Not every movie/show is yet available in AV1, presumably, these companies like Netflix are rolling their back catalogue into AV1 which takes time for their servers to do, but it means your M3 Air is a bit more future proof. In 2 years when everything is available in AV1, my M2 Air will have to continue to stream content in H.265. I won't shed tears but it would have been nice to have.

 

[Milly342]

Decoding not encoding.

I can take a CD and encode the WAV files into mp3 files that is 1/10th the size. That makes it 10x easier and cheaper to stream, if I'm Spotify. But to listen to spotify, your phone or Mac needs to

1. receive the mp3 stream
2. then—in real time—decode the mp3 into uncompressed data for the audio card

So decoding is important.

Its the same thing with video and images. A computer can encode media into a compressed codec, like H.265, but then a computer must decode the codec if it wants to play it.

A CPU encoding or decoding a codec wastes CPU cycles (and also heat and battery/energy). So chip makers dedicate some transistors on the chip to encoding and/or decoding the codec, so the CPU itself doesn't have to. This is how an Apple Silicon Mac can play video for like 18 hours, because the CPU is barely working during the decoding, instead the media engine is doing most of the decoding, saving battery life.

AVI is 30% more efficient, so 30% smaller files, or even smaller than that with Adaptive Quantization—which means the encoder can select what parts of the image need to be high quality (eg. two people fighting) and can lower quality of background imagery during action, for example—all to save file space. Its like a codec more optimized for 4K streaming. So YouTube, Netflix, NVIDIA, etc are eager to use it, but they aren't going to send it if you don't have hardware decoding. Well the new M3 chip has hardware decoding.

Its not the end of the world for everyone else—we'll continue to stream things in H.265 (what Apple calls HEVC). But in theory AVI means frames are sent to you faster when streaming games, so you would be playing games in a higher frame rate. Of course, in practice, there are more variables involved, including the quality of your connection, but in theory—all other things being equal and not bottlenecked—AVI should result in more FPS—or the same FPS but a higher-quality image.

Not every movie/show is yet available in AV1, presumably, these companies like Netflix are rolling their back catalogue into AV1 which takes time for their servers to do, but it means your M3 Air is a bit more future proof. In 2 years when everything is available in AV1, my M2 Air will have to continue to stream content in H.265. I won't shed tears but it would have been nice to have.

So the m3 is better for future proofing?

 

[PaperMag]

So the m3 is better for future proofing?

Correct, in that one sense yes, the M3 chip is more future proof.

Presumably, all the streaming sites like Max, YouTube, Netflix, AppleTV are adopting AV1 now, and not just because of technological progress and to save server costs, but because it’s royalty free as well, unlike H.265, which these companies have to pay royalties per device or per subscriber.

Still, even in 5 years many or most devices will still not have AV1 decoders, because people are slow to buy new computers and new TVs or streaming boxes, so streaming companies will still need to stream to us older devices in H.265, so it’s not like we can’t use Netflix in 5 years. Your M3 will have a little bit higher quality media is all.

EDIT: I'm attaching a photo that shows quality differences at the same bitrate. The middle image is encoded with VP9, but that is nearly equivalent to H.265 (HEVC), so look at how much better AV1 is on the right. Notice the fingers aren't lost in compression artifacts, and the tiles are much more detailed and consistent despite compression.

 

[JustAnExpat]

Here's my opinion (as someone who recently finished grad school):

1. BEFORE BUYING ANYTHING, talk to your potential professors AND your school admin. Some courses may require special "Windows only" software programs, OR Windows only web browsers.

2. Are Apple products used within the industry you're studying? Use what the industry uses. Since you're a business major, I expect Macs to be accepted, but you never know..

NOW assuming your professors and admin say "Macs are cool, use them!"...

I would recommend the MacBook Air M3.

1. It's lighter. You'll be carrying your computer to classes, library, study halls, etc, and every ounce counts.
2. The battery life is longer. There's no reason to bring your charger with you.
3. It's more reliable. There's no moving parts unlike a MacBook Pro.
4. ASSUMING you won't need sustained power for your classes, the MacBook Air is faster.
5. The MacBook Air is newer, so it'll get updates longer.

The only potential downside to a MacBook Air is that it can only connect to two external monitor, unlike four for the MacBook Pros (source: https://support.apple.com/guide/macbook-air/use-an-external-display-apd8cdd74f57/mac#). I doubt you'll need to connect to more than two external monitors though.

 

[Boing123]

Hi, Im going into this college this fall semester and upgrading my 2020 i3 Macbook Air. As i was looking I saw a $1400 m3 MacBook Air (13 inch) with 16 GB of RAM and a 512 ssd. Furthermore, I saw an Apple refurbished M2 Pro MacBook Pro with 16 GB of RAM and 512 SD and it would cost $1500. I use my laptop for web browsing, Geforce Now, YouTube, and Netflix. I like the weight of the air better but I also don't mind the better screen of the MacBook Pro. Does the 120hz, faster chip, and greater brightness outweigh the weight of the MacBook air?

Either machine will do fine for the applications you mention but eh…. Are you planning to do more in college than GeForce now, YouTube and Netflix?

That might be a good idea and if so, maybe throw those intended use cases into the mix for your buying decision.

 

[JustAnExpat]

I heard that the m3 cpu is a bit faster from single core tasks it that also a big difference?

No. If you're using this machine mostly for University coursework, the vast majority of the slowness will be on your side - thinking about the words to use if you're writing essays, searching for the correct journal articles to cite, hand copying information from books to answer problems, etc.

When I was in my graduate program, I was using a MacBook Air 2015/2017, and then I ended up upgrading to an M1 MacBook Air. I didn't see too much of a speed improvement all things considered.

One thing that did speed up my workflow is that I used to download textbooks from certain websites, and then run the textbooks through an OCR program. The OCR program used to take about 2 hours on the MacBook Air 2015/2017, and it reduced the time to about 20 minutes on the M1.

 

[chocoshuffle]

Just chiming in but I love and have moved to exclusively getting refurbished computers from Apple because they’re basically new and prices are better than when stuff goes on sale at best buy or Amazon. Thankfully I have a friend who works for Apple and is willing to share their F&F discount so I get an extra 15% off refurbished so it’s almost a no brainer. My M2 MBA has been a great daily driver for regular tasks and some work-from-home stuff.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Is apple certified refurbished legit? Like is it just as good as new?

Better than new because it has been more carefully tested. It may have a small cosmetic flaw.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Is geekbench a flawed test?

Benchmarks, although not flawed per se, are not real world.