Like I said. I tried this. Mac mini still crashes, even with sleep turned off.
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Mac Mini 2018 Kernel panic bug_type 210 after Security Update 2020-002
- Thread starter howdytom
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- bug_type macmini 2018
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Like I said. I tried this. Mac mini still crashes, even with sleep turned off.
History: I purchased a new mini in February. After a couple of weeks, it began crashing (and rebooting) unexpectedly with a 150 error, while I was doing stuff (not asleep, not restarting, etc). After a week of round and round with Apple (try this, wait until it crashed again, call back, catch up another support person, try this, rinse repeat), they finally told me to take it in for a motherboard replacement. That was March and the motherboard replacement happened successfully (if not painfully).
On April 21st, crash. This time it was the 210 error and actually had a stack trace (all the prior crashes had no stack trace, and very little other information in the report). Again, while I was using it (I never allow it to sleep in any event). Given that it was several weeks later, I decided to wait and see. Again last night it crashed/rebooted again while I was actively using it. Same error, though different stack trace and different low-level panic message.
At this point, I'm still up in the air about what to do. Not sure if this is 1) a hardware issue, 2) a BridgeOS error (which it seems there are conflicting reports if that can actually be updated by a macOS update), 3) something environmental, though I had exactly the same peripherals on a MacBook Pro running for years with no crashes. #1 seems less likely unless there's just some systemic issue with the T2 chip, #3 is going to be a bear to figure out since crashes are so far apart, so I'll likely hold out hope that the next update will resolve the issue (#2).
One thing is clear: quality at Apple continues on the decline. I've been a Mac user and developer for over 30 years, and even in the unstable years of System 7&8, I don't believe I've ever seen such consistent instability as we've seen over the past several years. This is exacerbated by their reticence to fix or even acknowledge issues. We have several open bugs on Radar and others which were closed as duplicates, that are years old and there's no sign that they will ever be addressed. I really hope someone at Apple is paying attention, because it feels as if quality is taking a back seat.
On April 21st, crash. This time it was the 210 error and actually had a stack trace (all the prior crashes had no stack trace, and very little other information in the report). Again, while I was using it (I never allow it to sleep in any event). Given that it was several weeks later, I decided to wait and see. Again last night it crashed/rebooted again while I was actively using it. Same error, though different stack trace and different low-level panic message.
At this point, I'm still up in the air about what to do. Not sure if this is 1) a hardware issue, 2) a BridgeOS error (which it seems there are conflicting reports if that can actually be updated by a macOS update), 3) something environmental, though I had exactly the same peripherals on a MacBook Pro running for years with no crashes. #1 seems less likely unless there's just some systemic issue with the T2 chip, #3 is going to be a bear to figure out since crashes are so far apart, so I'll likely hold out hope that the next update will resolve the issue (#2).
One thing is clear: quality at Apple continues on the decline. I've been a Mac user and developer for over 30 years, and even in the unstable years of System 7&8, I don't believe I've ever seen such consistent instability as we've seen over the past several years. This is exacerbated by their reticence to fix or even acknowledge issues. We have several open bugs on Radar and others which were closed as duplicates, that are years old and there's no sign that they will ever be addressed. I really hope someone at Apple is paying attention, because it feels as if quality is taking a back seat.
I'm not sure if my post is going to help but it can be another data point for reference.
I have a 2018 mini i5 with 32GB of user installed memory.
When I first go this Mac I migrated my backup from my 2013 iMac to this mini. All was well until I upgraded to Catalina (release version) which ended with me calling Apple Support because I thought for the first time ever that a system update had caused unrecoverable damage to my Mac. Because I still had the old iMac I was able to do a bit of research and found that Catalina had issues with HDMI and some monitors (I'm using a 43inch LG 4k monitor). When I connected a different monitor I saw that the computer was running and plugging in the LG also started working for some reason. Anyway... this issue as well as some other 32 bit issues made me run from Catelina back to Mojave and I kept it that way for many months.
With 10.15.4 I thought it was finally safe to move to Catelina, and it has been.
The points I'd like to make:
1. Catelina has been one of the worst system upgrades in my history with Apple (going back to OS 7). I experienced enough trouble to revert back to the previous OS. It's the first time I've had to do that. It seems to be ok for most now, but it's taken a long time to get here.
2. Catelina is 64 bit clean and I think this caused a lot of issues when people upgraded from old systems. I read about certain .kext files causing problems that had not been isolated by the launch of Catelina. These issues cause kernel panics.
3. Although Mojave is still 32 bit compatible there had already been a long push towards deprication of any 32 bit code and .kext files could be causing issues with Mojave as well. This is just a guess though.
4. I have never experienced these sleep/crash issues. I guess I moved to Catelina just at the time when that suspect security update came along.
5. From my experience these new machines with the T2 are a real pain. I troubleshoot and support Macs and I've never had so much trouble with things that used to be so easy and basic like booting from an external drive, creating an external boot drive, etc. It made me really sad to see Apple take this turn towards closing things up. I can't stress enough how important it is to test with a clean install, especially with Catelina.
I guess that's the main point relevant to this thread... test with a clean install if you can. A lot of people are suspecting a T2 hardware issue, but most likely it will turn out to be a software conflict otherwise we'd be seeing a lot more complaints.
Hope that helps someone 😉
I have a 2018 mini i5 with 32GB of user installed memory.
When I first go this Mac I migrated my backup from my 2013 iMac to this mini. All was well until I upgraded to Catalina (release version) which ended with me calling Apple Support because I thought for the first time ever that a system update had caused unrecoverable damage to my Mac. Because I still had the old iMac I was able to do a bit of research and found that Catalina had issues with HDMI and some monitors (I'm using a 43inch LG 4k monitor). When I connected a different monitor I saw that the computer was running and plugging in the LG also started working for some reason. Anyway... this issue as well as some other 32 bit issues made me run from Catelina back to Mojave and I kept it that way for many months.
With 10.15.4 I thought it was finally safe to move to Catelina, and it has been.
The points I'd like to make:
1. Catelina has been one of the worst system upgrades in my history with Apple (going back to OS 7). I experienced enough trouble to revert back to the previous OS. It's the first time I've had to do that. It seems to be ok for most now, but it's taken a long time to get here.
2. Catelina is 64 bit clean and I think this caused a lot of issues when people upgraded from old systems. I read about certain .kext files causing problems that had not been isolated by the launch of Catelina. These issues cause kernel panics.
3. Although Mojave is still 32 bit compatible there had already been a long push towards deprication of any 32 bit code and .kext files could be causing issues with Mojave as well. This is just a guess though.
4. I have never experienced these sleep/crash issues. I guess I moved to Catelina just at the time when that suspect security update came along.
5. From my experience these new machines with the T2 are a real pain. I troubleshoot and support Macs and I've never had so much trouble with things that used to be so easy and basic like booting from an external drive, creating an external boot drive, etc. It made me really sad to see Apple take this turn towards closing things up. I can't stress enough how important it is to test with a clean install, especially with Catelina.
I guess that's the main point relevant to this thread... test with a clean install if you can. A lot of people are suspecting a T2 hardware issue, but most likely it will turn out to be a software conflict otherwise we'd be seeing a lot more complaints.
Hope that helps someone 😉
For what it is worth I've just updated my Mac mini to Catalina (10.15.4) and it seems to have resolved the error on cold boot. I was a little reluctant, partly because of the horror stories, and partly because I was worried about compatibility with some of my music software and hardware. It all seems good so far though.
I'll see how it goes, but so far booting from cold does not give me a kernel panic.
Wayne
I'll see how it goes, but so far booting from cold does not give me a kernel panic.
Wayne
I have a 2018 Mac mini Core i7 64GB RAM. I have already tried 3 clean installations, and I still have the same problem as all the users who are reporting in this forum. A clean installation with Catalina, and two with Mojave. Nothing changes that blessed problem. I am disappointed in Apple
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So far booting from cold has already been solved (momentarily) with the recommendation of "howdytom" (update April 24). So there was no need to upgrade to Catalina. The real problem is the unexpected restart that is causing discomfort, because it happens to you at any time.
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In my case switching away from Safari did not solve the issue. It is quite likely there are different problems happening.
wayne
So are you saying you have random kernel panics with original Apple supplied RAM and a clean install with no additional software installed, no data migration and no peripherals connected except Apple keyboard mouse and a monitor?
Mac Mini 2018 on Mojave: Same here on cold boot.
Apple's forums were interesting in that only ONE "Solved" ever appeared in any of the topics about this problem = Apple replaced his motherboard, and all was well.
I WILL NOT UPGRADE macOS TO "FIX" APPLE'S BUG!! Mojave does everything I need.
Each time I get the error panel I respond. Apple should be BURIED in the results of their bad security update. ALL of you, SEND THE REPORTS! Every bit of info they need about my system is in the massive crash report, so I just freelance each day's response. Sometimes it's just "Hi there - me again. Please fix this" but sometimes I just fill the response window with my anger - depends on how I woke up in the morning and whether I had my coffee.
Apple's forums were interesting in that only ONE "Solved" ever appeared in any of the topics about this problem = Apple replaced his motherboard, and all was well.
I WILL NOT UPGRADE macOS TO "FIX" APPLE'S BUG!! Mojave does everything I need.
Each time I get the error panel I respond. Apple should be BURIED in the results of their bad security update. ALL of you, SEND THE REPORTS! Every bit of info they need about my system is in the massive crash report, so I just freelance each day's response. Sometimes it's just "Hi there - me again. Please fix this" but sometimes I just fill the response window with my anger - depends on how I woke up in the morning and whether I had my coffee.
Any additional updates here? Thanks if anyone can let us know-- I've heard nothing…
Steve on Friday 22 May 2020
Steve on Friday 22 May 2020
No update from Apple but here's an update from me:
For some reason not using Safari does seem to work for me this time.. (after doing another complete OS reinstall and DFU restore.) I have sleep turned on again and my Mac hasn't crashed for 24 hours now.
For browsing I'm using Microsoft Edge. It has the same scrolling feel as safari and the microsoft sync features are actually pretty good, especially if you're already using other Microsoft Office apps.
For some reason not using Safari does seem to work for me this time.. (after doing another complete OS reinstall and DFU restore.) I have sleep turned on again and my Mac hasn't crashed for 24 hours now.
For browsing I'm using Microsoft Edge. It has the same scrolling feel as safari and the microsoft sync features are actually pretty good, especially if you're already using other Microsoft Office apps.
That's sort of wild. On our corporate PCs, it's a terrible browser, at least for our purposes.
MS has officially abandoned Edge, IIRC.
I’ve actually tried a bunch of browsers and they all lack behind Safari. switching over to Edge gives me the least friction.
Laughing, yes, I used to look at Safari with squinty eyes. I've used just about all of them, including several no longer with us. None are perfect, but I like Safari as the best package of compromises and limitations.
For corporate use, Edge doesn't integrate well with Acrobat, which is a huge problem for our biz, and it doesn't work with a lot of in-house stuff. The Acrobat thing alone is essentially fatal for us.
It appears that security update 2020-003 is out now. Has anyone tried it to see if the problems been addressed? I won't be able to for a while.
I think this says enough..
Just upgraded to security update 2020-003.. opened Safari, and let it sleep, and BAM another crash.
Screw this! Going to sell my Mac Mini. Can't live with this. I've been patient for 2 months!!!
Just upgraded to security update 2020-003.. opened Safari, and let it sleep, and BAM another crash.
Screw this! Going to sell my Mac Mini. Can't live with this. I've been patient for 2 months!!!
Yeah, I did the same, and as soon as it booted post-update I got the report. Tried using Logic and it was making that crash as well. I've been looking the past few days at the 2013 Mac Pro--thinking about ditching the Mini. Sucks cause it's the first brand new Mac I've bought, especially since every one of my refurbished machines were flawless. I can't attempt to write/record music with this constant crap happening.
Same for me. I bought a maxed out i7 Mini for production. Part of my income is actually dependant on music. Can't upgrade to Catalina either cause it killed support for a hardware synthesizer (Virus TI2) which I use on a daily basis. What's worse, you can't turn off the Upgrade to Catalina badge anymore. Apple is now almost forcing you to update.
I'm actually considering going back to Windows but the problem is that I'm 11 years in. Been investing in Mac soft/hardware since 2009.
So for, Catalina has been stable for me for Logic and music Apps. Regarding your Virus, are you using it over a USB connection with a specific driver? If so could you not hook it up via Midi/Audio with a supported USB Midi Interface instead?
No, MS has not officially abandoned Edge. They've recently ported it to other platforms like macOS and Android. What they did do was abandon their own rendering engine and move over to the same one Chrome uses, Blink.
just discover today that there's an update fo Mojave:
Security update 2020-003 10.14.6
Is somebody already installed it and checked it? (I see a couple of reports above)
As far as know, here and in other forums, the beta version doesn't solve the problem (at least for Mojave)...but this is an official update..
It comes with the Safari's update...I really hope that it is not a coincidence!!!
I'll wait for some answers before update... Thanks for any additional comments here --- from what I am reading above it does not look like this solves the kernel panic which started happening after security update 2020-002 on 25 March 2020.
Best regards,
Steve Schulte
Wednesday 27 May 2020
Security update 2020-003 10.14.6
Is somebody already installed it and checked it? (I see a couple of reports above)
As far as know, here and in other forums, the beta version doesn't solve the problem (at least for Mojave)...but this is an official update..
It comes with the Safari's update...I really hope that it is not a coincidence!!!
I'll wait for some answers before update... Thanks for any additional comments here --- from what I am reading above it does not look like this solves the kernel panic which started happening after security update 2020-002 on 25 March 2020.
Best regards,
Steve Schulte
Wednesday 27 May 2020
I have just installed it, and for now it seems I can initiate sleep without a crash again. But that's just a test after the first few minutes. Let's see whether it stays that way.
I hope it is. If Safari can cause a kernel panic (or BridgeOS panic or whatever it's called), than any other application could do as well. And that's not good.
The connection to Safari must tangential. The root cause is probably something else. Like Safari using some new Metal-API or so, that third-party applications are not yet using. Apple must fix the root cause, not patch Safari, or the problem might come back with installing any third-party application.
Thanks for the detailed reply! Please report back in a day or 2 with an update on things. From the Apple Discussion Group I see this from someone who just posted:
The Mohave update did not fix the issue for me. After installing and rebooting, I opened Safari and closed it. I shut my Mac Mini down completely. I started it up and the first thing that came up was the "Your system was restarted because of a problem" message. The update fixed nothing.
So big ???? for me! Thanks again,
Steve
Wednesday 27 May 2020
The Mohave update did not fix the issue for me. After installing and rebooting, I opened Safari and closed it. I shut my Mac Mini down completely. I started it up and the first thing that came up was the "Your system was restarted because of a problem" message. The update fixed nothing.
So big ???? for me! Thanks again,
Steve
Wednesday 27 May 2020
And you've done what about this?
Pissing and moaning on this board will not get your problem solved. Contacting Apple Support will. That's the only way to have an engineer look at your crash reports, figure out what old code is causing your problems so that your Mac can be fixed.
But noooooo... complaining may make you feel better but it doesn't get your machine fixed.
Whining crybabies.
Once again. Go to the Support pages. Navigate to the page where you ask for a phone call. Someone will call you.
You can save crash reports by going in, Select all copy and paste into a text file. If you can't duplicate the crash in real time with a support engineer, this text file can be uploaded.
Do it. Stop whining. Get your problem solved. The call is free.
Pissing and moaning on this board will not get your problem solved. Contacting Apple Support will. That's the only way to have an engineer look at your crash reports, figure out what old code is causing your problems so that your Mac can be fixed.
But noooooo... complaining may make you feel better but it doesn't get your machine fixed.
Whining crybabies.
Once again. Go to the Support pages. Navigate to the page where you ask for a phone call. Someone will call you.
You can save crash reports by going in, Select all copy and paste into a text file. If you can't duplicate the crash in real time with a support engineer, this text file can be uploaded.
Do it. Stop whining. Get your problem solved. The call is free.