Mac mini: 4k @ 120hz?

[Zorast]

Plz all of u that have a Cable Matters Adapter that works or not. Show us the VMM Chip Version in Mac Infos like this:
Mine does not work with VMM7100! Does anyone update also the VMM7100 ?

UPDATE!! Did find a new Firmware for VMM7100 !!:

Cable Matters Knowledge Base - Page not found

Knowledge Base for Cable Matters Connectivity Products

kb.cablematters.com

Note: This firmware update only applies to products with the Synaptics VMM7100 (8K@60Hz) chipset. The previous version of this adapter has the VMM6100 chipset (8K@30Hz). This firmware will not work with the VMM6100 adapters. Please contact us at support@cablematters.com if you are unsure which adapter you have.

This firmware update resolves the following issues:

• Doesn't support the DDC/CI function with Dell Monitors
• Only supports up to 2Lane HBR3 at the upstream end on some VMM7100 4Lane HBR3 Products

####

I will Update the Adapter now and will report if is works.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Plz all of u that have a Cable Matters Adapter that works or not. Show us the VMM Chip Version in Mac Infos like this:
Mine does not work with VMM7100! Does anyone update also the VMM7100 ?

UPDATE!! Did find a new Firmware for VMM7100 !!:

Cable Matters Knowledge Base - Page not found

Knowledge Base for Cable Matters Connectivity Products

kb.cablematters.com

Note: This firmware update only applies to products with the Synaptics VMM7100 (8K@60Hz) chipset. The previous version of this adapter has the VMM6100 chipset (8K@30Hz). This firmware will not work with the VMM6100 adapters. Please contact us at support@cablematters.com if you are unsure which adapter you have.

This firmware update resolves the following issues:

• Doesn't support the DDC/CI function with Dell Monitors
• Only supports up to 2Lane HBR3 at the upstream end on some VMM7100 4Lane HBR3 Products

####

I will Update the Adapter now and will report if is works.

That firmware doesn't work with my adapter, and the firmware tool shows it as VM6100.

I wonder how you can distinguish between VM6100 and VM7100? Even going to Cable Matters product page and clicking to buy via Amazon takes me to the same product page I used.

To be clear, I have working 4K120 on my 2021 MBP - I don't need a different adapter.

 

[Zorast]

That firmware doesn't work with my adapter, and the firmware tool shows it as VM6100.

I wonder how you can distinguish between VM6100 and VM7100? Even going to Cable Matters product page and clicking to buy via Amazon takes me to the same product page I used.

To be clear, I have working 4K120 on my 2021 MBP - I don't need a different adapter.

Yes but are ure sure that u have 4:4:4: or RGB 4k@120hz 8b or 10B ?

I have test this new Adapter with VM7100 and CAN NOT get over 4k@60z. When Editing the EDID to change it to Displayport, it runs also only 4k@60hz 4:2:0 8b !! When resetting the EDID to Factory default I get 4k@60hz 4:4:4 BEFORE Firmwareupdate. So the Firmwareupdate did make things more bad as before!

 

[BeatCrazy]

Yes but are ure sure that u have 4:4:4: or RGB 4k@120hz 8b or 10B ?

I have test this new Adapter with VM7100 and CAN NOT get over 4k@60z. When Editing the EDID to change it to Displayport, it runs more bad with only 4k@60hz 4:2:0 8b !! When resetting the EDID to Factory default I get 4k@60hz 4:4:4

Are you saying you cannot get 4K120 at all with the VM7100?

If you can give me a scenario to try the VM6100 with something higher than 4K120 4:2:0 8b, I can try. But I think others have reported such in this thread?

 

[Zorast]

Are you saying you cannot get 4K120 at all with the VM7100?

If you can give me a scenario to try the VM6100 with something higher than 4K120 4:2:0 8b, I can try. But I think others have reported such in this thread?

Yes no 4k@120hz possible with Cable Matters VM7100 !

We need more Informations from

Alan Spiegel

how they get RGB 10b 4k@120hz with his Cable Matters Adapter​

 

[Zorast]

So is that 4:4:4?

Its better than 4:4:4 its RGB 10B !

 

[Djlild7hina]

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong lol

LG C9
HDMI Ultra Deep colors enabled, HDMI type set to PC
Mac Studio M1 Ultra
Cable Matters USB C to HDMI 2.1 Cable with VM7100 (Firmware was already updated)

Retrieved the TVs EDiD and changed display type to Displayport then uploaded EDiD data. If I set it to 120 hz, the only resolution options i get are these?

I have the Cable Matters USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter coming in tomorrow

 

[BeatCrazy]

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong lol

LG C9
HDMI Ultra Deep colors enabled, HDMI type set to PC
Mac Studio M1 Ultra
Cable Matters USB C to HDMI 2.1 Cable with VM7100 (Firmware was already updated)

Retrieved the TVs EDiD and changed display type to Displayport then uploaded EDiD data. If I set it to 120 hz, the only resolution options i get are these?

I have the Cable Matters USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter coming in tomorrow


View attachment 2157192

If I'm understanding @AironMan correctly, a cable with the VM7100 won't support 4K120.

 

[Djlild7hina]

If I'm understanding @AironMan correctly, a cable with the VM7100 won't support 4K120.

Thanks, I'll check back with my adapter tomorrow

 

[Technotron]

Had to create an account just to thank you guys for figuring this out. This cable here worked for me OOTB: https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B09MCXCWTQ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

No updates etc. required. What are some of the compatible/favorite docks at the moment?

Cheers, thanks again - amazing work. I almost upgraded to an M2 MBP 14 just to be able to use 120Hz on my LG C1... you guys rocks!

Edit: only annoyance is that closing the lid or unpluggin/reinserting the cable has my settings default to mirroring ad 60Hz

 

[Zorast]

Had to create an account just to thank you guys for figuring this out. This cable here worked for me OOTB: https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B09MCXCWTQ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

No updates etc. required. What are some of the compatible/favorite docks at the moment?

Cheers, thanks again - amazing work. I almost upgraded to an M2 MBP 14 just to be able to use 120Hz on my LG C1... you guys rocks!

Edit: only annoyance is that closing the lid or unpluggin/reinserting the cable has my settings default to mirroring ad 60Hz

4:4:4 or RGB ?

 

[Zorast]

Not sure if I'm doing something wrong lol

LG C9
HDMI Ultra Deep colors enabled, HDMI type set to PC
Mac Studio M1 Ultra
Cable Matters USB C to HDMI 2.1 Cable with VM7100 (Firmware was already updated)

Retrieved the TVs EDiD and changed display type to Displayport then uploaded EDiD data. If I set it to 120 hz, the only resolution options i get are these?

I have the Cable Matters USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter coming in tomorrow


View attachment 2157192

The VMM7100 does not work correctly. I send mine Back after testing alls things up, it does not work!

 

[Alan Spiegel]

I made a new test with this>

HDMI cable

Amazon Basics HDMI Cable, 48Gbps High-Speed, 8K@60Hz, 4K@120Hz, Gold-Plated Plugs, Ethernet Ready, 6 Foot, Black

An Amazon Brand.

www.amazon.com

Last purchased Aug 1, 2022

Cable Matters Adapter

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 16/15 - Max Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 16/15 - Max Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

www.amazon.com

Last purchased Jul 12, 2021
No firmware updated

Macbook pro m1 Max

LG OLED C1

Exported, Uploaded and applied with Base64 checked

could it be some configuration or calibration on the tv ? maybe?

 

[Technotron]

4:4:4 or RGB ?

Let me get back to you on that.

Edit: how do I get that info on my LG C1?

 

[nandakke]

Success! Thanks @stevemr123

Hardware:
M2 MacBook Air
LG C2 42
Belkin USB-C to HDMI HDMI 2.1 Cable AVC012bt2MBK (*VMM7100)

Software:
Ventura 13.2

 

[Technotron]

Here goes:

https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B09MCXCWTQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details once again is what I am using

 

[ching0419]

Is it possible to do 4:4:4 at lower frame rates (e.g. 4K@96Hz) using this EDID method?

Losing a few frames to get better colours seems like a good compromise.

 

[waydabber]

Let me get back to you on that.

Edit: how do I get that info on my LG C1?

I believe there is no such things as non-4:4:4 with RGB. So RGB 10b should signify a perfect RGB transmission (with full luminance and color resolution).

With YCrCb the first 4 stands for the fact that you have 4 pixels in a color row, Cr can be 4 or 2 depending how many colors can you represent in the first row (4 is full color resolution, 2 is halved), Cb stands for the number of colors in the second row (if the first row color number is 4, it can be 4, if the first row color number is 2, then it can be 2 or 0 - if 2, then you can have 2 separate colors, if 0, then you have the same color as the first row, so the color resolution is the quarter of the actual resolution).

So in practice you can have 4:4:4 (no subsampling), 4:2:2, 4:2:0 (various levels of subsampling - half or quarter color resolution).

 

[Rams1976]

Has anyone managed to generate an EDID for Lg c1 which can output 4k@120 RGB 444?

How to edit EDID on Apple Silicon + some examples (4K@120Hz, forcing RGB, tiled displays) · waydabber BetterDisplay · Discussion #1491

Here is a brief example of how to edit the display's EDID and apply the modified EDID to Apple Silicon. This example deals with 4K@120Hz support over some HDMI dongles for M1 Macs: https://forums.m...

github.com

 

[waydabber]

Has anyone managed to generate an EDID for Lg c1 which can output 4k@120 RGB 444?

How to edit EDID on Apple Silicon + some examples (4K@120Hz, forcing RGB, tiled displays) · waydabber BetterDisplay · Discussion #1491

Here is a brief example of how to edit the display's EDID and apply the modified EDID to Apple Silicon. This example deals with 4K@120Hz support over some HDMI dongles for M1 Macs: https://forums.m...

github.com

Yes, @Alan Spiegel seems to get perfect results - #839

But I think in terms of output, one does not really have to stick to the original EDID of the display and modify that - but can create an entirely custom EDID that only contains the 3840x2160 120Hz mode as valid timing and can disable YCrCb entirely. The only thing what matters is that the mac outputs the required mode and the dongle can do the translation and can negotiate everything properly between the computer and the TV. You can create an entirely custom EDID with AW EDID Editor, there is a nice step-by-step wizard for that and then you can customize whatever you want.

The only issue is if you want to have a 4K@120Hz, you can't add that as a standard EDID timing descriptor because there the pixel clock is represented with two bytes (it's an old standard) and 4K@120Hz has a higher pixel clock than the max value allowed. You can however define 4K@120Hz as a EIA/CEA short timing descriptor entry (but that is normally used for HDMI I think + is a bit wasteful in terms of blanks and porches so it might not be a good idea, but the default LG EDID uses this to signify the presence of 4K@120Hz) or create a DisplayID extension with a timing block, as DisplayID is a newer standard and can represent the pixel clock in 3 bytes (this is compatible with EDID v1.4 only, so the LG EDID does not use this). An other approach is to have a range limit block next to the standard timing descriptor and use that to extend the pixel clock limit (the LGs do not do this as this is again not compatible with EDID v1.3). I am not sure which of these approaches work best, but there are a lot of ways one can play with the options and with EDID override on the fly, it is possible to experiment with these quite easily.

Note: Alan Spiegel actually included the EDID he uses in his screenshot (in base64 format), that can be easily copied and might work with a C2 as well I think (?) with a similar dongle, so if he can get RGB 4K@120Hz, it might work for others as well.

 

[Rams1976]

Yes, @Alan Spiegel seems to get perfect results - #839

But I think in terms of output, one does not really have to stick to the original EDID of the display and modify that - but can create an entirely custom EDID that only contains the 3840x2160 120Hz mode as valid timing and can disable YCrCb entirely. The only thing what matters is that the mac outputs the required mode and the dongle can do the translation and can negotiate everything properly between the computer and the TV. You can create an entirely custom EDID with AW EDID Editor, there is a nice step-by-step wizard for that and then you can customize whatever you want.

The only issue is if you want to have a 4K@120Hz, you can't add that as a standard EDID timing descriptor because there the pixel clock is represented with two bytes (it's an old standard) and 4K@120Hz has a higher pixel clock than the max value allowed. You can however define 4K@120Hz as a EIA/CEA short timing descriptor entry (but that is normally used for HDMI I think + is a bit wasteful in terms of blanks and porches so it might not be a good idea, but the default LG EDID uses this to signify the presence of 4K@120Hz) or create a DisplayID extension with a timing block, as DisplayID is a newer standard and can represent the pixel clock in 3 bytes (this is compatible with EDID v1.4 only, so the LG EDID does not use this). An other approach is to have a range limit block next to the standard timing descriptor and use that to extend the pixel clock limit (the LGs do not do this as this is again not compatible with EDID v1.3). I am not sure which of these approaches work best, but there are a lot of ways one can play with the options and with EDID override on the fly, it is possible to experiment with these quite easily.

Note: Alan Spiegel actually included the EDID he uses in his screenshot (in base64 format), that can be easily copied and might work with a C2 as well I think (?) with a similar dongle, so if he can get RGB 4K@120Hz, it might work for others as well.

every time I try and add 4k@120 in AWD editor it tells me the pixel clock is too high and i need to keep it below 655? So is it possible or not to get RGB 4k@120 on LG OLED TVs ??

 

[Rams1976]

Yes, @Alan Spiegel seems to get perfect results - #839

But I think in terms of output, one does not really have to stick to the original EDID of the display and modify that - but can create an entirely custom EDID that only contains the 3840x2160 120Hz mode as valid timing and can disable YCrCb entirely. The only thing what matters is that the mac outputs the required mode and the dongle can do the translation and can negotiate everything properly between the computer and the TV. You can create an entirely custom EDID with AW EDID Editor, there is a nice step-by-step wizard for that and then you can customize whatever you want.

The only issue is if you want to have a 4K@120Hz, you can't add that as a standard EDID timing descriptor because there the pixel clock is represented with two bytes (it's an old standard) and 4K@120Hz has a higher pixel clock than the max value allowed. You can however define 4K@120Hz as a EIA/CEA short timing descriptor entry (but that is normally used for HDMI I think + is a bit wasteful in terms of blanks and porches so it might not be a good idea, but the default LG EDID uses this to signify the presence of 4K@120Hz) or create a DisplayID extension with a timing block, as DisplayID is a newer standard and can represent the pixel clock in 3 bytes (this is compatible with EDID v1.4 only, so the LG EDID does not use this). An other approach is to have a range limit block next to the standard timing descriptor and use that to extend the pixel clock limit (the LGs do not do this as this is again not compatible with EDID v1.3). I am not sure which of these approaches work best, but there are a lot of ways one can play with the options and with EDID override on the fly, it is possible to experiment with these quite easily.

Note: Alan Spiegel actually included the EDID he uses in his screenshot (in base64 format), that can be easily copied and might work with a C2 as well I think (?) with a similar dongle, so if he can get RGB 4K@120Hz, it might work for others as well.

Can you explain how when you say :

1. You can however define 4K@120Hz as a EIA/CEA short timing descriptor entry

2. or create a DisplayID extension with a timing block, as DisplayID is a newer standard and can represent the pixel clock in 3 bytes

3. have a range limit block next to the standard timing descriptor and use that to extend the pixel clock limit


Awd editor has so many variables and it would be helpful if you can show us how to do this or a video?

And lastly do any of the 3 enable 4k@120 RGB 444

Thanks Steve

 

[BeatCrazy]

Today, I tried with both my 2021 16" base model MBP, and my 2022 base Mac Studio with M1 Max.

Same YCBCR 4:2:2 8b 4L10 for both. Isn't this the most/best we can expect?

 

[Zorast]

I made a new test with this>

HDMI cable

Amazon Basics HDMI Cable, 48Gbps High-Speed, 8K@60Hz, 4K@120Hz, Gold-Plated Plugs, Ethernet Ready, 6 Foot, Black

An Amazon Brand.

www.amazon.com

Last purchased Aug 1, 2022

Cable Matters Adapter

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 16/15 - Max Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C to HDMI 2.1 Adapter, Support 8K 60Hz / 4K 240Hz HDR, Thunderbolt 4 to HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.1 to USB C Adapter, Compatible with iPhone 16/15 - Max Resolution on Mac is 4K@60Hz

www.amazon.com

Last purchased Jul 12, 2021
No firmware updated

View attachment 2157299

Macbook pro m1 Max

View attachment 2157301

LG OLED C1

View attachment 2157306

Exported, Uploaded and applied with Base64 checked

View attachment 2157307

View attachment 2157300

could it be some configuration or calibration on the tv ? maybe?

That looks Perfect ! RGB 10b with 4k@120hz ! Can u please upload your EDID here ?
And can u please send us information how chip version is working in your Adapter?

U See it in Apple Systeminformations on USB Tab.

Tomorrow I will get 4 Adapters and 1 TB4 Station with HDMI 2.1. I will test all of them and report!

 

[waydabber]

Can you explain how when you say :

1. You can however define 4K@120Hz as a EIA/CEA short timing descriptor entry

2. or create a DisplayID extension with a timing block, as DisplayID is a newer standard and can represent the pixel clock in 3 bytes

3. have a range limit block next to the standard timing descriptor and use that to extend the pixel clock limit


Awd editor has so many variables and it would be helpful if you can show us how to do this or a video?

And lastly do any of the 3 enable 4k@120 RGB 444

Thanks Steve

Well I think going into details with this is a bit out of scope for me, you'd need to dive into the world of EDID (the specification is public + there is a great wikipedia entry to start with and also ChatGPT can give you some orientation). I am very bad at making YouTube videos (that's why so far I made none).