Mac mini: 4k @ 120hz?

[Technotron]

Thanks too !

Plz read this post:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-4k-120hz.2267035/post-31968090

Cheers man. I feel like a bit of a retard (lol) and I just want to get this right before I randomly start flashing files...

1. Which of the two files do I flash first?
2. Everyone is using the Cable Matters firmware updater in Windows right?

Edit: nevermind, got it.... one IS the flasher, one is the firmware

 

[esfrost]

By the way, the Cable Matters adapter is capable of pushing 4k 120hz 4:4:4 according to Cable Matters. I'm sure there is a way to use it with 4:4:4. The Cable Matters adapter in fact uses the VM6100 chip.

 

[AironMan]

Hahahaha … I was wondering how I got looped in on this 😉

Haha sorry 😂

 

[AironMan]

The Cable Matters Adapter can NOT do 4:4:4 4k@120hz 8b. Only the Anker can do that with the custom Firmware! I think 4:4:4 has better quality then RGB because it is uncompressed. RGB can be compressed is some times. I don’t know if the LG TV shows us that we get RGB 4:4:4, don’t see that yet. RGB 4:4:4 is also uncompressed, but can use more bandwidth and that is not optimal for us.

We see that it is confirmed also from some others the solution (that I posted before) with Custom Firmware and Anker Adapter are working! So when u have trouble, it has do be another problem there. Plz check the thread do get a solution.

 

[AironMan]

By the way, the Cable Matters adapter is capable of pushing 4k 120hz 4:4:4 according to Cable Matters. I'm sure there is a way to use it with 4:4:4. The Cable Matters adapter in fact uses the VM6100 chip.

This is an disinformation, the VMM6100 can not do 4k@120hz 4:4:4 8b without DSC. Only VMM7100 can do that. But till know only the Anker adapter can rech this with an custom Firmware!

But I think probably there’s also another Chips that can do that, unfortunately I can only give Information from Adapters that i have testet!!!

By the way, The Club3D Adapters after EDID override does connect with 4:4:4 4k@60hz 4L12 but are limited to 60hz! I think an club3d with an custom firmware can also do good job because it’s connected with 4L12 it’s full 48Gbps !

 

[hPandaa1]

The Cable Matters Adapter can NOT do 4:4:4 4k@120hz 8b. Only the Anker can do that with the custom Firmware! I think 4:4:4 has better quality that RGB because it is uncompressed. RGB can be compressed is some times. I don’t know if the LG TV shows us that we get RGB 4:4:4, don’t see that yet. RGB 4:4:4 is also uncompressed, but can use more bandwidth and that is not optimal for us.

We see that it is confirmed also from some others the solution (that I posted before) with Custom Firmware and Anker Adapter are working! So when u have trouble, it has do be another problem there. Plz check the thread do get a solution.

Hi AironMan, I'm the one who responded to your comment on reddit. Please check there to do some testing with the firmware I uploaded. I most likely won't be able to provide anything after the weekend.

Regarding RGB vs YCbCr, I think the only "compression" that is typically applied on RGB is 'full' vs 'limited' range. YCbCr separates the grayscale/luma channel from the chromatic ones (red and blue bias) and applies subsampling to the latter two channels when in 422 or 420 mode.

I just checked, and I am positive that I run full RGB10 HDR @ 4K120 with my CableMatters USB-C adapter. I used these test pages to confirm (compression, wide color gamut)

 

[esfrost]

This is an disinformation, the VMM6100 can not do 4k@120hz 4:4:4 8b without DSC. Only VMM7100 can do that. But till know only the Anker adapter can rech this with an custom Firmware!

But I think probably there’s also another Chips that can do that, unfortunately I can only give Information from Adapters that i have testet!!!

By the way, The Club3D Adapters after EDID override does connect with 4:4:4 4k@60hz 4L12 but are limited to 60hz! I think an club3d with an custom firmware can also do good job because it’s connected with 4L12 it’s full 48Gbps !

I'm not trying to argue or anything (I'm not an expert, and as of now my CM adapter does not seem to push 4:4:4, although I haven't updated the firmware as I don't have Windows to do that), but Cable Matters's customer service told me that their adapter is capable of pushing 4k 120hz 4:4:4.

I quote their answer:

"The chipset version of this adapter is VMM6100.

It is capable of 4k at 120hz with 4:4:4 if the host is capable, with the current firmware."

 

[AironMan]

Hi AironMan, I'm the one who responded to your comment on reddit. Please check there to do some testing with the firmware I uploaded. I most likely won't be able to provide anything after the weekend.

Regarding RGB vs YCbCr, I think the only "compression" that is typically applied on RGB is 'full' vs 'limited' range. YCbCr separates the grayscale/luma channel from the chromatic ones (red and blue bias) and applies subsampling to the latter two channels when in 422 or 420 mode.

I just checked, and I am positive that I run full RGB10 HDR @ 4K120 with my CableMatters USB-C adapter. I used these test pages to confirm (compression, wide color gamut)

Ahh hi! The post are deleted on Reddit! Can u plz upload ure firmware here? And did u make an screenshot on Firmware informations showing in updater ?

There are 2 Person that have an older Cable Matters Adapters with an older Firmware/Hardware from 2021 and can getting RGB 10b 4k@120hz. We had to analysis this more for better understanding.

Waiting for your reply, thanks!

 

[hPandaa1]

Ahh hi! The post are deleted on Reddit! Can u plz upload ure firmware here? And did u make an screenshot on Firmware informations showing in updater ?

Ah, that's weird. I checked in a new browser session and it seems I can only see that post when I am logged in. Hope I didn't violate any rules of that subreddit and got shadowbanned for it...

I dumped the output to a txt file, and uploaded it here:

File folder on MEGA

mega.nz

I also took a picture of the adapter for reference:
https://ibb.co/RHS7XsZ

 

[esfrost]

I have the same adapter and tried your EDID, although I can get 120hz with it, and RGB, but not 4k, only 1080p highDPI, or 1440p lowDPI. So no 4k RGB HDR10 120hz with it. (I have an LG C2 connected to my M1 Mac Mini)

 

[hPandaa1]

I have the same adapter and tried your EDID, although I can get 120hz with it, and RGB, but not 4k, only 1080p highDPI, or 1440p lowDPI. So no 4k RGB HDR10 120hz with it. (I have an LG C2 connected to my M1 Mac Mini)

Hmmm... My TV is an LG CX and I am using a MacBook Air M1 from 2020. I also uploaded my firmware, but I'd be hesitant to suggest flashing it without considering all other variables. I hope AironMan can figure something out. He's doing amazing work together with @stevemr123.

One other thing I should mention is that I connect my Mac to Port 1 of the LG CX, and have to enable Deep Colors for that port. Otherwise 4K 120Hz is not working for me (only 4K 60Hz). 4K 120Hz always shows up in the menu for me though. I just don't get any image when I select it (The TV just goes to "No Input Detected" and cycles through a set of paintings)

 

[AironMan]

Ah, that's weird. I checked in a new browser session and it seems I can only see that post when I am logged in. Hope I didn't violate any rules of that subreddit and got shadowbanned for it...

WE GOT IT !!!

Thanks u Man, after checking ure Log and ure Firmware I was able to reproduce RGB 4k@120hz 10B after flashing Firmware (6.05.120) to an VMM6100 Cable Matters 201388 Adapter.

Its connected over 4L10 so it looks like it can use 40 Gbits to reach RGB 4k@120hz 10B!

Finally we got it ! I will report Cable Matters Support about this.

I think this solution can also been use for M2 Apple Silicon as well!

U have to override with custom EDID and change some times the frequent between 30hz-120hz. Then it will Sync with RGB 4k@120hz 10B.

Firmware is Attached and will work with Adapter Cable Matters 201388 when it has an Chip VMM6100.
(Till now we dont know if this Firmware will also work with other Brand with VMM6100!)

Can also inform that it also work when its connected to an TB4 Dock, so its also possible to get an 1 Cable solution !!

Adapter:

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C auf HDMI 2.1 Adapter (USB C HDMI Adapter) für 4K 120Hz und 8K 60Hz HDR - Thunderbolt 3, USB4, Thunderbolt 4 Port kompatibel-Maximale Auflösung auf jedem Mac beträgt 4K 60Hz

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB-C-zu-HDMI-Adapter-Kabel unterstützt 4K 120Hz und 8K 60Hz HDR - kompatibel mit Thunderbolt-3 und Thunderbolt-4-Port - 1,8m - maximale unterstützte Auflösung auf jedem Mac 4...

www.amazon.de

EDIT: Plz follow this Thread:

DP/USB-C/Thunderbolt 3/4 to HDMI 2.1 4k@120hz RGB4:4:4 10b HDR with Apple Silicon M1/M2 now possible !

WARNING 31.10.23: macOS Sonoma 14.1 and newer breaks HDR with HiDPI 4k@120hz 4:4:4 and beyond. We are looking for a solution. NOTE: To ensure proper credit for this solution, kindly reference this thread when sharing. Thanks! Apple limited HDMI-Transportstream over USB-C/TB/DP to maxed...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Djlild7hina]

WE GOT IT !!!

Thanks u Man, after checking ure Log and ure Firmware I was able to reproduce RGB 4k@120hz 10B after flashing Firmware (6.05.120) to an VMM6100 Cable Matters 201388 Adapter.

Its connected over 4L10 so it looks like it can use 40 Gbits to reach RGB 4k@120hz 10B!

Finally we got it ! I will report Cable Matters Support about this.

I think this solution can also been use for M2 Apple Silicon as well!

U have to override with custom EDID and change some times the frequent between 30hz-120hz. Then it will Sync with RGB 4k@120hz 10B.

Firmware is Attached and will work with Adapter Cable Matters 201388 when it has an older Chip VMM6100.

Adapter:

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C auf HDMI 2.1 Adapter (USB C HDMI Adapter) für 4K 120Hz und 8K 60Hz HDR - Thunderbolt 3, USB4, Thunderbolt 4 Port kompatibel-Maximale Auflösung auf jedem Mac beträgt 4K 60Hz

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB-C-zu-HDMI-Adapter-Kabel unterstützt 4K 120Hz und 8K 60Hz HDR - kompatibel mit Thunderbolt-3 und Thunderbolt-4-Port - 1,8m - maximale unterstützte Auflösung auf jedem Mac 4...

www.amazon.de

Wow! So cable matters Is the new go to adapter?

 

[hPandaa1]

WE GOT IT !!!

Thanks u Man, after checking ure Log and ure Firmware I was able to reproduce RGB 4k@120hz 10B after flashing Firmware (6.05.120) to an VMM6100 Cable Matters 201388 Adapter.

Its connected over 4L10 so it looks like it can use 40 Gbits to reach RGB 4k@120hz 10B!

Finally we got it ! I will report Cable Matters Support about this.

I think this solution can also been use for M2 Apple Silicon as well!

U have to override with custom EDID and change some times the frequent between 30hz-120hz. Then it will Sync with RGB 4k@120hz 10B.

Firmware is Attached and will work with Adapter Cable Matters 201388 when it has an older Chip VMM6100.

Adapter:

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB C auf HDMI 2.1 Adapter (USB C HDMI Adapter) für 4K 120Hz und 8K 60Hz HDR - Thunderbolt 3, USB4, Thunderbolt 4 Port kompatibel-Maximale Auflösung auf jedem Mac beträgt 4K 60Hz

Cable Matters 48Gbps USB-C-zu-HDMI-Adapter-Kabel unterstützt 4K 120Hz und 8K 60Hz HDR - kompatibel mit Thunderbolt-3 und Thunderbolt-4-Port - 1,8m - maximale unterstützte Auflösung auf jedem Mac 4...

www.amazon.de

Great news

Also, massive thanks for your service. Without all of you guys in this thread I would still be running 4K 60, so I'm glad I could contribute back in some way.

 

[AironMan]

I think there is something about HRB3 limits going on here. I think the Old Firmware force more Bandwidth without the use of HRB3 so it has not the Bandwidth Limit of 32 Gbps. When Allrez is Apple Silicon ready, we can better goin deeper into it to better understand what's going on !

 

[Technotron]

Nice, I probably should have waited with ordering that 50 EUR Anker adapter then lol…

So what adapter are we talking about specifically from Cable Matters? Think we can reproduce the full spectrum with the Anker adapter or should I return it?

 

[esfrost]

I want to congratulate to every single one of you for supporting this mod, especially for @AironMan and @stevemr123 for their relentless work.

Now the only thing remains to be solved is to give a tool for those who doesn't have a Windows machine for the firmware update. I'd love to see Better Display implement a tool for this job. That would be amazing.

 

[Technotron]

Yeah they have done some amazing work!!! Absolutely unreal 😊

 

[AironMan]

Thanks Man ! It was really Hard work to figure this out, also this was never happened when @stevemr123 not get us EDID override functionality with BetterDisplay. Also big thanks to @Alan Spiegel and @hPandaa1 to assist in getting more details information from his Adapter chip and Firmware ! Also thanks to @joevt for his detailed information in Specifications etc. It's a work where we all have work hard for. Iam really happy now ! M1 and M2 user will profit from that ! No need to buy an expensive M2 only for HDMI 2.1 (only over HDMI Port possible) !

 

[Technotron]

Absolutely, a lot of people involved in pulling this off. This single-handedly destroyed any train of thought of mine of upgrading to an M2 Pro haha...

@AironMan is there any way of telling which Cable Matters dongles have the required chipset for the flashing procedure? I am thinking of keeping the Anker adapter regardless for now up until I have this figured out and applied to a CM adapter...

 

[AironMan]

Absolutely, a lot of people involved in pulling this off. This single-handedly destroyed any train of thought of mine of upgrading to an M2 Pro haha...

@AironMan is there any way of telling which Cable Matters dongles have the required chipset for the flashing procedure? I am thinking of keeping the Anker adapter regardless for now up until I have this figured out and applied to a CM adapter...

No u have to buy and test ! U can see the Chip Version when open the Firmwareupdater.

 

[dinosauradventure]

Nice one! Some notes from my experience:

• I couldn't ever get the FW tool to run on that dell laptop but was able to get it working on an old Intel MBP under Bootcamp.
• The Anker adapter (with custom firmware) appears to be stable when waking from sleep & closed lid mode on my M1 MBP.
• My CableMatters adapter 201388 (purchased 2/9/23) shows as USB BILLBOARD but is actually chip VMM6100 in FW tool.
• With VMM6100 and above firmware have some issues with blank screen waking from sleep and resolution resting (probably related to BetterDisplay EDID override resetting). otherwise works great!

Thank you for the work! Long live the M1 Macs.

 

[waydabber]

@dinosauradventure - if you make a change in the EDID that affects the available refresh rates for the to-be-used resolution, then until the EDID is applied by BD, the OS will use the previous EDID and change to the lower refresh rate. This changes the resolution mode stored for the display layout associated to the display (the resolution will "reset" every time). To prevent this, you need to change the product id or serial number of the new EDID so the new resolution modes are associated to a different display (your display's second identity in this case) in macOS so when the EDID override kicks in, the proper mode is selected as the new display layout is loaded. I think there is a post earlier somewhere where I explained this in more depth.

 

[AironMan]

Plz have in Mind, 4k@120hz RGB 10B HDR is really the maxed Bandwidth where we can get without DSC! So the Cables and Chips have to works 100% to get this workable. So syncing this is 80/30 to work in every usecase I think But iam happy it can work and also been ready sometimes to switch between 60hz/120hz to get finally 4k@120hz RGB 10B HDR sync before to buy an new M2 Pro where I also have to plug in a HDMI Cable !

So this Bandwidth need also not to long Cables(I think max 1-2m) and certified up to 48Gbps !

 

[Manupadi]

You guys are AMAZING! Finally running 120 RGB 10B using the Cable Matters adapter with the VM6100 chipset.
I was seriously considering upgrading just for this, you guys saved me a lot of money!

If only Apple implemented this natively for the general public...