I am in the exact same situation, as are many others.
Apple is really testing our patience.
Seriously, Tim Cook isn't even answering my emails, and I was very nice in all of them.
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Mac Pro Rising
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I am in the exact same situation, as are many others.
Apple is really testing our patience.
Seriously, Tim Cook isn't even answering my emails, and I was very nice in all of them.
I'm not looking for a bargain, just wanted to see what a $4000 dual Xeon workstation looked like. the link you provided is to a set of machines that have been customized in their build by B&H and are priced far below what they would be, configured through HP. also, the CPUs offered near that price are slower than I'd rather bother with. Once I build a machine on HP.com that is what I would want in a CG workstation, I'm up at $9K to 10K.
The reality is that Apple wasn't overpriced when the nMP came out (the RAM was overpriced but we are all used to that). but if just the CPUs and GPUs in a machine sell for $5K retail on their own, they are going to add 5K to the cost of a system as well.
You asked to see a dual 6-8 core machine from HP. There you are. Wether these configurations meet your requirements is irrelevant to your original question. It doesn't sound like a $4000 Mac Pro (6c/D500) would meet your requirements either.
That was 3 years ago. The market has moved on, but you are perfectly free to buy a fully decked out 2013 nMP for around $9000.
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I understand this. Your transition will probably not be as smooth as mine then. I've worked in windows for 20 years primarily and on Macs at home for about 10 years. So I feel as comfortable on both. Also I do enjoy building my own computer and configure everything to my own liking. I dont need a gazillion cores myself, Im sort of working on the crossroad between 3d rendering and 2d artwork, I do both, so I needed a machine that offers both as good as possible. Sadly apple only offer either consumer CPU's in the iMacs or the Xeons in the nMP. For me the ProSumer CPUs would benefit me the most, since I need the high Hz of single cores in Adobe programs but I also need as many cores as possible in 3d. So a 6 core overclocked to 4.4ghz Broadwell-E is what I landed on. - which is something you simply cant get from Apple.
As for GPU I hardly think theres many needing the Dual GPU of the nMP (except FCPX users), and iMacs only have mobile GPU. So I think 99% of professionals are better off with a single great GPU like the GTX 1080 or the Titan or the Quadro. Which apple dont offer at all.
I think if you dont like to fiddle with hardware and are not used to WIndows10 at all, you might get some headaches in the beginning. But once you get there, and find all the replacement programs for all the small things you are used to, then it will be great.
About HDDs I sold all my thunderbolts Drives with the iMac and bought internal HDDs for my tower instead, I prefer this. Less cables and less clutter, and besides faster speeds. And internal hdds are dirt cheap anyway. BUT, if you want to keep your thunderbolt drives, you can simple buy a Motherboard with Thunderbolt ports or an extra pci with thunderbolt connections, and you can use the drives on PC. You can even get a HFS+ program for windows, so the drives works on mac and PC - if you really want to.
As for GPU I hardly think theres many needing the Dual GPU of the nMP (except FCPX users), and iMacs only have mobile GPU. So I think 99% of professionals are better off with a single great GPU like the GTX 1080 or the Titan or the Quadro. Which apple dont offer at all.
Multiple GPU are useful for a lot of people running Resolve, Vray RT, Octane, FLAME etc. I think the bigger problem is the poor support for multiple GPU on OS X.
I need a lot of high speed RAID storage, so going internal will only get me so far. But I hear you about bays and the ability to add drives cheaply. Something which is not possible with the trashcan.
Thunderbolt is an option on the HP boxes and appears to work well, so there is that.
Moving to Win10 is not impossible. It's just not something I look forward to. Thanks Tim!
It is so hard to convey how disappointing our 2013 Mac Pro turned out to be, because of the GPUs. Months and months of Apple denying there is any problem, and refusing to even glance at the evidence we presented.
The craziest part is that we are dying of thirst waiting for news for a new Mac Pro.
You should probably put that blame on software companies. NMP is great for certain sofetwares like fcpx. I'll say that nMPis not universal as in software wise.
You're off a wee bit on your inflation calculations. The PMG5 entry model in 2005 was $2000, which today, inflation adjusted, is $2464. Less than a high end iMac today, lol.
Inflation calculator.
the 6 core nMP does not meet my requirements. only 64GB of RAM is not acceptable (not even in late 2013), for many applications. and $4000 worth of 16 slow cores might serve for a budget render box but makes for a lousy workstation. it's not a useful alternative compared to what the Mac Pro should be.
none of your comparisons are like for like. there should be no one left arguing that the nMP is a good value proposition. it is past consideration. the only comparison left to make now is what Apple might release. and just like in 2013, what that will sell for will certainly be in line with similar offerings from HP, Dell, Lenovo...
the problem isn't that Apple is not price competitive, it's that Apple no longer offers a product worthy of the category. if they haven't abandoned the category, we are left speculating on what Apple will do. and what they do is going to be built on the same parts their competitors use. the price of that release will be close to the competition, as it has always been since the switch to Intel.
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yes, excellent point. and if you look at the top tower offerings (in their default configs) from the introduction of the G3 processor (1997) through the Mac Pro 2,1 (2007), unadjusted prices were in the $2300 to $3000 range (just like the first few years of Macintosh). but for the last few years, just the cost of a pair of Xeon processors alone could easily retail for more than that. so for 10 years, the price held, roughly, while performance kept improving. and then the price jumped, a lot.
when Apple released the long overdue Mac pro update in 2013, they confounded the reality of the situation with a fancy new, over-designed package that came with a big bump in the price. but the price wasn't about the package, it was about the guts. the Xeons just cost that much more and continue to do so today. so whatever Apple (or its competitors) do, the prices will not be coming down. let's hope AMD with its new Zen architecture really does introduce some competition and make Intel reconsider it's pricing.
Good points all around. AMD Zen is an option, but Apple left another more obvious option on the table: Intel Core i7. A midrange Mac Pro tower with 4-6 core i7 options would be fine for most "pros" outside of video and 3D work. There are also many who simply don't want an AIO solution but don't really need Xeons and ECC memory. I'm looking towards those who require high end displays as well as the home enthusiasts.
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I used several online calculators and got a similar answer from all.
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Apple will hopefully pick up on the fact that as technology changes, designs must change. When SJ took over, laptops were the niche market and it was all about making expandable desktops. It used to be that peripherals changed once a decade and the CPU changed every year. Now that there are severe Moore's Law issue in processors, but peripherals are advancing like crazy, having a modular, upgradeable system is more critical than ever, because customers really don't want a computer they have to throw out next year because the plugs changed.
If Apple were intent on doing something non industry standard just for the heck of it, the best move would be the mother of all high speed ports, such that you could create a docking station that would be covered in upgradeable industry standard ports. Similar in concept to USB 3c, but much more powerful. Currently, 25GHz links are super cheap, so go wide, say x32 or higher.
If Apple were intent on doing something non industry standard just for the heck of it, the best move would be the mother of all high speed ports, such that you could create a docking station that would be covered in upgradeable industry standard ports. Similar in concept to USB 3c, but much more powerful. Currently, 25GHz links are super cheap, so go wide, say x32 or higher.
You sounded skeptical if a dual CPU 6-8 core Xeon could be purchased from HP for around $4000.
The answer is yes.
If it meets your personal requirements is another issue.
You can't argue with nostalgia. I mean, the guy is arguing about what something was like near 4 years ago. Dinosaurs were awesome and magnificent beasts in their time too.
I'm sorry you feel the need to alter the meaning of the discussion to hollow out a weak defense. I asked what that system would be, not whether it existed. that it has limited value matches what I had said before.
Oh, boy. Someone is taking themselves mighty serious. You know what? Nobody cares.
Even if you start the blame from s/w companies PoV, Apple should be the one to start with
From the distant 2013 until now, Windows have a better utilization of nMP's hardware than OS X.
Well......................................yeah.Even if you start the blame from s/w companies PoV, Apple should be the one to start with
From the distant 2013 until now, Windows have a better utilization of nMP's hardware than OS X.
Edit:boot camp ?
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I'll take snapple with it.Absolutely (if you can safely ignore the bitter taste that leaves)
He didn't specify which September!