Mac studio v1 fan noise - it's going to be one of the loudest Macs at idle.

[AlphaCentauri]

1. 30mm 42.7 dBA
2. 1000mm 25.6 dBA (at operator position).
3. Verify calibrator (94dB)
4. Mic plugged out. At calibrated level, i.e. for 94dB. Preamps at same gain as for previous measurements. So you can see the affect of the noise floor of my interface/cable on previous measurements.
5. Mic plugged out. dBFS scale. As you can see, very close to theoretical limit of 24bit, i.e -144dB...other than the little bit of 50Hz...

Unfortunately the 1000mm one isn't totally accurate as by that stage the Intel Mac's fans (which Smaart is running on) were in the game...but 25dBA ain't bad...I'll try this again and see if I can get the noise floor lower...it isn't easy to do these kind of measurements accurately, as you're getting into the noise floor of even high-end audio equipment...

Anyway in fairness to Apple, they're not lying saying it's quiet...if you look at the 1000mm measurement, most of that is under 0dB...even the 2.1k whistle isn't showing up at 1000mm...and the 1.5k one is only about 5dB.

Far from questioning your professionalism, you’ve made some detailed measurements, but what is your conclusion?

What I know, is that Mac Studio specs say “25dB noise at idle from operator’s position” - I’m fine with that but it was already difficult to accept for many people in this thread, they expected it to be completely silent for some reason.

Some ALSO hear the whistle, do you think that all Mac Studios have the whistle but it is masked by some other background noises and some people can’t hear it because of this?

Please clarify.

 

[Killerbob]

Guys - this is turning into a STUPID discussion. Let's get back on track and see if we can iron out what sets the FEW Mac Studios with noise issues aside from the rest. It is NOT all Mac Studios that suffer from this issue...

- simacc has made a lot of observations, but all we can conclude is that his Mac Studio has the issue.
- OpenSource03's Mac Studio has the issue, as does deejaymrmack's.
- Plenty of us, the majority actually, have no noise issues, and it is NOT because we just can't hear it, it is because it is hit'n'miss.

What sets them apart? Someone in another thread mentioned the MoBo layout was different in some Mac Studios... That would for sure create a significantly different airflow, IMO at least.

 

[simacc]

Far from questioning your professionalism, you’ve made some detailed measurements, but what is your conclusion?

What I know, is that Mac Studio specs say “25dB noise at idle from operator’s position” - I’m fine with that but it was already difficult to accept for many people in this thread, they expected it to be completely silent for some reason.

Some ALSO hear the whistle, do you think that all Mac Studios have the whistle but it is masked by some other background noises and some people can’t hear it because of this?

Please clarify.

I'm going to do some more measurements after midnight...and see if I can get the noise floor any lower here...I'm going to freeze the room with air con for the evening so I can get the intel mac silent...set the fans to lowest...(it's too much hassle to move Smaart over to the Mac Studio)...

I'll be honest, I don't usually do measurements this low...any work I've done is tuning sound systems, acoustic measurements, or making noise surveys for noise complaints in city, all well above the 25dBA I'm getting here in my studio...I also think as good as the M30 mic is, it might have too high self-noise for this...the rest of my signal chain is up to it though...I've checked all my mics and it's the lowest, even lower than a DPA...I have a few of these M30s, so one might get me a few more dB...

But I suspect the Mac Studio is actually closer to the 15dBA that they state on the support document; at 1m anyway, which is the standard in the industry...and probably in a totally dead room...I got down to about 23dBA at 1m a few moments ago...

My conjecture is that they all have the whistle frequencies, and that it's a design flaw, I can't prove that of course....I think it's small enough that it would be signed off on, as my measurement at 1m shows...it's very easy to mask, and TBH I only hear it if I have the studio dead silent, and my hearing is very sensitive...or to put it more simply, I might not be returning it.

 

[garetjaxor]

Guys - this is turning into a STUPID discussion. Let's get back on track and see if we can iron out what sets the FEW Mac Studios with noise issues aside from the rest. It is NOT all Mac Studios that suffer from this issue...

- simacc has made a lot of observations, but all we can conclude is that his Mac Studio has the issue.
- OpenSource03's Mac Studio has the issue, as does deejaymrmack's.
- Plenty of us, the majority actually, have no noise issues, and it is NOT because we just can't hear it, it is because it is hit'n'miss.

What sets them apart? Someone in another thread mentioned the MoBo layout was different in some Mac Studios... That would for sure create a significantly different airflow, IMO at least.

I posted about the different PSU motherboards - and if its a PSU coil whine then that could be the issue.

 

[bobcomer]

Well, I've had my Ultra since the 1st day they went on sale, and there is no whine, none.

So what do you think is deceptive about these images, both taken with the same microphone, in the same room, seconds apart. So where is your "high self-noise, preamps etc., the room could be noisy otherwise etc"?

Repost of my comment #415 from this thread (that you said you looked through completely):

(The only thing I would change from the original comment below is that I suspect it is equally likely, or in fact more likely, a problem with components on the power supply board since we know more about the power supplies now.)

I played your recording through a speaker and the first image clearly shows the 2.2 kHz "whistle" about 30 dB above the noise floor.

The 2nd image is my Ultra (made in Malaysia) with the same mic 2" from its rear, in fact facing its rear - not a good idea in general, but I didn't want to miss a higher frequency whistle if it was there. There's nothing around 2.2 kHz that's above the noise floor.

I'm simply trying to show the "whistle" is not a "feature" of every unit - likely faulty fans.

Thanks for posting the comparison graphs. My graph looks a lot closer to the 1st one, though my main spike is at 2.6KHz.

What I find interesting is your second graph, that's a LOT less variation in noise level than on my Studio. Now if we could just figure out why...

 

[simacc]

Just thinking about it, if you apply the inverse square law to my 30mm measurement:

43dBA 30mm
37dBA 60mm
31dBA 120mm
25dBA 240mm
19dBA 480mm
13dBA 960mm

...not far off the 15dB stated in the support document...I didn't measure the 30mm very accurately TBH...could have been more...also the inverse square law does break down a bit once you get very close...

I'll do some more measurements later...see how it goes.

If I can get something looking like this, (besides the first one, I don't think my mic is up to that), it should be safe to say mine is at spec:

(15dBA 1000mm)
21dBA 500mm
27dBA 250mm
33dBA 125mm
39dBA 62.5mm
45dBA 31.25mm

 

[Killerbob]

My conjecture is that they all have the whistle frequencies, and that it's a design flaw, I can't prove that of course....I think it's small enough that it would be signed off on, as my measurement at 1m shows...it's very easy to mask, and TBH I only hear it if I have the studio dead silent, and my hearing is very sensitive...or to put it more simply, I might not be returning it.

If it was a general design flaw, then it would all Mac Studios - and it does not...

I posted about the different PSU motherboards - and if it's a PSU coil whine then that could be the issue.

Unless it is a design flaw in a subset of units. I wonder if there is a way to identify the different PSU MoBo layouts without opening up the Mac Studio?

See at 3:10...

 

[simacc]

Just thinking about it, if you apply the inverse square law to my 30mm measurement:

43dBA 30mm
37dBA 60mm
31dBA 120mm
25dBA 240mm
19dBA 480mm
13dBA 960mm

...not far off the 15dB stated in the support document...I didn't measure the 30mm very accurately TBH...could have been more...also the inverse square law does break down a bit once you get very close...

I'll do some more measurements later...see how it goes.

If I can get something looking like this, (besides the first one, I don't think my mic is up to that), it should be safe to say mine is at spec:

(15dBA 1000mm)
21dBA 500mm
27dBA 250mm
33dBA 125mm
39dBA 62.5mm
45dBA 31.25mm

30.8dBA at 125mm
26.7dBA at 250mm
24.6dBA at 500mm

I couldn't have got a quieter night...not a breeze outside...got the Mac Intel inaudible also...anyway that's close enough to the inverse square law for me...the 250mm is ridiculously close to theory, the 125mm is close enough, and by 500mm the room noise, mic self noise, and my breath, even holding it, was having an affect...even standing 3 metres away with a wireless keyboard to take screenshots...BTW, ignore the Max numbers, that's me moving the mic around etc., also I tried to wait for the spectrogram to clear before taking a screenshot, although you can see some ruffling in the history...it is safe to say this Mac Studio is roughly at manufacturer specifications of 15dBA @ 1m.

Just want to remind anyone that those numbers are accurate, that's a class 1 mic, calibrated with a class 1 calibrator, and Smaart is as good as it gets...and as I illustrated earlier with the dummy load of 68ohms, the interface/preamps aren't a factor...also I went through three different M30 mics, and they were all more or less the same, I settled on the one with the lowest self-noise, differences were negligible...also, note you can see the inverse square law doing its thing in the 125mm and 250mm measurements, those two are the most useful, as other factors come into play at 500mm and 1000mm, I suspect the 2.1k didn't go down a further 6dB due to reflections, my room is not dead.

 

[simacc]

All my measurements were done at normal fan speed (1350).

But if you want it really silent, my advice is to use settings below...it hasn't left 1100rpm once yet for me, even with the room 28c. Also that's about the maximum temperature anyone has gotten out of the Mac Studio with both GPU and CPU maxed out, using normal fan settings, which never reach max speed, so should be safe.

 

[garetjaxor]

If it was a general design flaw, then it would all Mac Studios - and it does not...



Unless it is a design flaw in a subset of units. I wonder if there is a way to identify the different PSU MoBo layouts without opening up the Mac Studio?

See at 3:10...

Serial number ranges maybe? Also what do you Mac Studio owners see under About This Mac - System Resources - Power - anything there about PSU manufacturer?

For my Macbook for the battery it shows manufacturer and a serial

Battery Information:



Model Information:

Serial Number: D867012A1WNHDWC4J

Manufacturer: SMP

Device Name: bq20z451

Pack Lot Code: 0

PCB Lot Code: 0

Firmware Version: 702

Hardware Revision: 1

Cell Revision: 3925

 

[Killerbob]

In a Mac Studio we do not get that level of info:

System Power Settings:
AC Power:
System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 0
Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 30
Sleep on Power Button: Yes
Automatic Restart on Power Loss: No
Wake on LAN: Yes
Current Power Source: Yes
LowPowerMode: 0
PrioritizeNetworkReachabilityOverSleep: 0

Hardware Configuration:
UPS Installed: No

AC Charger Information:
Connected: Yes
Family: 0x0000

I have tried finding out more about the PSU in my Mac Studio, but none of my diagnostics tools, or system checks identify the PSU maker...

 

[deejaymrmack]

They don’t want us to know probably 😂 but yeah I also tried to check that but no luck. Today I talked with the shop and they told me if there is problem ( they are waiting from Their service people to tell them) we are gonna change the fans. And I’m fine with that because everything else are working perfectly and I don’t want to risk to take another faulty machine. But what happens if the repair doesn’t fix the problem. Is there any possibility to change even the psu or they are gonna stick with fans? I’m asking to see if anyone has experience with repairing and have success.

 

[Killerbob]

Obviously, if it is the layout on the PSU MoBo, no fans are really gonna make a difference. A lower RPM might, but the right solution would be to change the PSU. I really wish we could prove our hypothesis, but for that to happen we need to find out how to identify the PSU in the Mac Studio (without opening it up).

 

[deejaymrmack]

Obviously, if it is the layout on the PSU MoBo, no fans are really gonna make a difference. A lower RPM might, but the right solution would be to change the PSU. I really wish we could prove our hypothesis, but for that to happen we need to find out how to identify the PSU in the Mac Studio (without opening it up).

The thing is if they are gonna find out that its the psu(or whatever it is). I’m afraid that they will
Change the fans(it won’t happen anything) and then they won’t bother to search it for more. The guy also mention twice that he never heard that problem before…I will send him a link from that thread maybe if he keeps saying that.

 

[simacc]

Just want to add further evidence that my "whistling" Mac Studio is basically within manufacturer spec.

I got 26.7dBA at 250mm.

In theory, i.e. in a completely perfect anechoic chamber, with completely perfect measuring equipment, the specs in the support document state that it should be 24dBA at that distance...see calculations below...

All of the measurements I've made add up and align very close to theory...that 2.7dBA difference would be expected given a combination of attributing factors, i.e. reflections (mostly), me at a distance, mic self-noise, a class 1 mic and calibrator could both be 1dB out, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Links below if you want to research this yourself...note the acoustic specs are at the bottom...2.5 bels A-weighted = 25dBA Sound Power Level...or 24dBA Sound Pressure Level at 0.25m...and 14dBA Sound Pressure Level at 1m in free-field conditions...I'm guessing Apple's "Sound Pressure Level Operator Position" (15dBA) is for about 1m in a dead room (possibly the actual sound power level is 2.54 bels, or 2.46 and they measured at 0.8m etc.)...

Mac Studio (2022) - Technical Specifications – Apple Support (UK)

support.apple.com

Sound power level SWL and sound pressure level SPL distance compare acoustic power sound source noise Conversion of sound pressure to sound intensity conversion sound level energy level strength directivity factor coefficient sound intensity SIL - se

Sound power SWL and sound pressure level SPL distance compare acoustic power sound source noiseConversion of sound pressure to sound intensity source conversion sound level energy intensity level strength directivity factor coefficient sound intensity SIL sound source - Sengpielaudio - Eberhard...

www.sengpielaudio.com

 

[npjnpj]

Just plugged in my MS (base max). After hearing the fan 'hum' and 'whine' for the first time... I didn't even bother setting up the machine... I think it's too loud for me.

@simacc I listened to your recording again and the pitch of mine is extremely close - the same tritone. Not a very comforting sound...

So things to note:
- I'm in an ~80% soundproofed room.
- I've been using a 2017 iMac for about 4 years that is effectively silent at idle.
- I'm a musician so my ears are definitely more sensitive to noise in general.

I'm referring to two sounds that come from the MS: 'hum' and 'whine'. Hum is the round fan noise (low pitched purr). Whine is the high frequency that many have reported.

- MS on the desk about 1m away: More fan 'hum' than I expected. It's a nice pleasant round 'hum' but SO much louder than my iMac at idle - for me, a big downgrade. The 'whine' is barely noticeable from my sitting position but if it got worse over time - would be annoying to me. Right now I could ignore the 'whine' but the 'hum' is a problem...
- If I put my ear to the rear of the MS the whine is very obvious. Just like many recordings I've heard here.
- I tried the MS under the desk at the rear (still facing the same wall). It reduced the overall noise a little but the whine seemed to be just as loud since it's being projected out the rear of the unit (the fan 'hum' is less directional so the desk blocks it more).
- I'm surprised how much air is being pumped out of this thing. I can feel it on my hand over a meter away!

I'm a musician and sometimes record quietly played guitar in the room. I've done some quick tests comparing the noise in the room with the MS off and on. The 'hum' is definitely noticeable when comparing recordings. The most noticeable humming is around 485hz... I'm not going to bother going too deep on the science of it all... It's way louder than my iMac, which, ever I could live with the sound, feels like such a downgrade... I can't do it.

The 'whine' is quieter and not a problem if I'm recording guitar ~2 meters away. I didn't even bother turning the iMac off when testing as it idles so quietly - it must be making a little noise but compared to the MS it's effectively silent (under load is a totally different story of course but when I record the fans don't usually spin up).

The MS is very much not silent - it's hum is pleasant and rounded... I could imagine it easily going unnoticed if you have other fans or ambient noise around you. Unfortunately, I do not.

For my situation and requirements... I don't think I can go backwards and add noise to the room... Bye bye MS.

 

[simacc]

Just plugged in my MS (base max). After hearing the fan 'hum' and 'whine' for the first time... I didn't even bother setting up the machine... I think it's too loud for me...

Totally agree with everything you said there.

couple of things I'll add is that, while my 2019 iMac is silent at idle, when I'm recording, its fans do often spin up and end up louder than the Mac Studio...this would be because I often have virtual instruments and amp sims etc. in the project...when mixing/mastering I end up in the same situation, that and my motorised faders are louder than the Mac Studio...I had the same problem just running Smaart to take measurements, I kept having had to stop the analyser and let the iMac cool off in between...also, the iMac becomes unbearable under heavy workloads, even monitoring around 94dB (I usually monitor about 80-88dB, Bob Ludwig recommends 86dB BTW, if you want to hang to your hearing as long as he has)...

but yeah it does feel like a step backwards at idle, even at 1100rpm...M1 Mac Mini is the best way to go for now IMO.

 

[zozomester]

Teljesen egyetértek mindennel, amit ott mondtál.

Néhány dolgot hozzáteszek, hogy míg a 2019-es iMac-em alapjáraton néma, felvétel közben a ventilátorai gyakran felpörögnek, és hangosabbak, mint a Mac Studioé... ez azért van, mert gyakran van virtuális eszközöm. hangszerek és erősítő simek stb. a projektben...mixeléskor/mastereléskor ugyanabba a helyzetbe kerülök, ez és a motoros fadereim hangosabbak, mint a Mac Studioban...ugyanez volt a probléma, amikor a Smaartot futtattam mérésre, Állandóan le kellett állítanom az analizátort, és hagynom kellett az iMacet kihűlni közben... és az iMac nagy terhelés mellett is elviselhetetlenné válik, még a 94 dB körüli értéket is figyelem (én általában 80-88 dB körül figyelek, Bob Ludwig 86 dB BTW-t ajánl, ha addig akar hallani, amíg ő)...

de igen, alapjáraton, még 1100 ford./percnél is visszalépésnek tűnik... Az M1 Mac Mini egyelőre a legjobb út, IMO.

Or Macbook Pro with M1 Pro/Max. Absolute Silent with high performance.

 

[gah5037]

So a few days ago I reported that I got a Apple refurbished studio with the whine that I returned..

Well a 10% off bestbuy coupon tempted me to try another but from BB. The new base model from BB doesn't seem to be making any high tones that make it to my seating position. Phew!

 

[OpenSource03]

I was hoping for that kind of response...you're clearly not an audio engineer...although a sound clip would have been better...of course now that you're emotionally invested, I can't trust you won't doctor it.

You played another sound clip through a speaker, at unknown SPL...is that your evidence?

I absolutely don’t need 100% quiet room to notice if mine is whistling or not. At it’s peak I can notice it even when window is open.

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

Or a MacBook Pro with M1 Pro/Max. Absolutely silent with high performance.

That doesn't do the people with a Mac Studio with M1 Ultra any good ...

(But, having said that, I am puzzled how the Mac Studio M1 Max configuration needs these giant fans and large-ish power supplies when the MacBook Pro M1 Max apparently doesn't need either ... how does the MacBook Pro M1 Max configuration dissipate all that heat? Does it throttle?)

 

[zozomester]

That doesn't do the people with a Mac Studio with M1 Ultra any good ...

(But, having said that, I am puzzled how the Mac Studio M1 Max configuration needs these giant fans and large-ish power supplies when the MacBook Pro M1 Max apparently doesn't need either ... how does the MacBook Pro M1 Max configuration dissipate all that heat? Does it throttle?)

It was M1 Max Studio for me. I sold it because it was noisy. The Macbook Pro is silent with the same performance. It's just that.

 

[Killerbob]

I have both a MacBook M1 Pro and a Mac Studio M1 Max, and whereas I can hear my MacBook under pressure, I have never been able to hear my Mac Studio. Also, remember that the more ports and the bigger PSU needs cooling as well…

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

I have both a MacBook M1 Pro and a Mac Studio M1 Max, and whereas I can hear my MacBook under pressure, I have never been able to hear my Mac Studio. Also, remember that the more ports and the bigger PSU needs cooling as well…

Interesting data point. I have a good half-dozen USB devices attached to my current Mid 2010 Mac Pro so I'd prefer to replace it with a Mac Studio M1 Max than a MacBook Pro M1 Max to get more TB/USB ports, but knowing my luck I'd probably get one with the whine so I keep hestitating 😞

 

[simacc]

Besides the whole whistle/whining thing, i.e. even without tonal components, the Mac Studio is not silent, you can hear the fan noise at 1m even in a noisy enough room. The title of the thread is correct, and the sound power specifications are correct: it is one of the loudest Macs at idle. Anyone that cannot hear the fans has some hearing damage, end of story. This is just science, there is no getting away from it.

The higher-midrange tonal components that users are complaining about are at about 0 to -3dB at 1m from my unit. See attached images. Note the peak around 2.1k in the second image. And yes I did say 0dB, humans with good hearing can hear down to about -10dB or more at this frequency range. Moving the mic a few cm made it disappear in the frequency response graph (first image), however you can always see it as a vertical line in the spectrograph. It's highly likely many will not be able to hear these tonal components at 1m. Even at 30mm the tonal components are less than 24dB, so also likely some will not be able to hear them even with their ear up against it. And also likely not to show up on many mics etc.

Note the overall fan noise at 1m is about 15dBA, as stated in the specifications, and as can be calculated from the sound power level. So low that I had to move the mic to 500mm to get above the noise floor in the room (23.5dBA in those images).

Now whether it bothers you is a totally subjective matter...IMO it really isn't that annoying, but it is a little bit, especially if you have the room dead-quiet. And it is disappointing, particularly in comparison to the M1 Mac Mini. Also for any sound engineers, I agree with the Sound on Sound review, that it won't be an issue recording in the same room as it. "I wouldn’t be afraid to use it in a live room with a musician." https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/apple-mac-studio