MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[joevt]

Btw, the Ableconn PEXM2-130 is a x8 card, the switch of the card is an ASMedia ASM2824 x8 switch, even with the Mojave firmwares installed on the backplane the maximum speed possible is around ~2800MB/s - even with a RAID array. This is a limitation of the PCIe v2.0 slots of the Mac Pro.

Only a card with a x16 switch will get more throughput, around 3200MB/s for a high end blade and around 5900 to 6100 MB/s for a high end RAID array.

I don't think there should be a difference for a single NVMe when using PCIe 2.0 x8 (or PCIe 1.0 x16 if you have a x16 card) for upstream link because it has similar (or slightly greater) bandwidth (32 Gbps) compared to the NVMe's PCIe 3.0 x4 (31.5 Gbps).

I've done NVMe tests with various numbers of NVMe in an Amfeltec with different widths and speeds.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/amfeltec-x16-pcie-with-4-ssds-5900-mb-s.1936311/post-25247002
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/amfeltec-x16-pcie-with-4-ssds-5900-mb-s.1936311/post-25252615

I would have preferred tests using AmorphousDiskMark.app or maybe ATTO Disk Benchmark.app which both can give higher numbers then AJA System Test Lite.app
PCIe 1.0 x16: 3045 MB/s (MacPro3,1) 3277 MB/s (Hackintosh)
PCIe 2.0 x8: 3270 MB/s (Hackintosh - to do x8 in Mac would require taping some pins)

I also did some tests in a HighPoint SSD7505 with multiple NVMe (using ATTO Disk Benchmark.app instead of a RAID) in a Netstor NA255A connected to the MacPro3,1 (PCIe 3.0 x8 slots with PCIe 2.0 x16 upstream)
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pcie-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/post-29483973

I also tried the SSD7505 directly in the MacPro3,1 slot 2 (without Netstor NA255A)
PCIe 1.0 x16: 3449 MB/s (MacPro3,1)
PCIe 2.0 x16: 6333 MB/s (MacPro3,1)


I've also attached some other tests with PCIe 2.0 x16 for the HighPoint SSD7505:

 

[tsialex]

I don't think there should be a difference for a single NVMe when using PCIe 2.0 x8 (or PCIe 1.0 x16 if you have a x16 card) for upstream link because it has similar (or slightly greater) bandwidth (32 Gbps) compared to the NVMe's PCIe 3.0 x4 (31.5 Gbps).

I've done NVMe tests with various numbers of NVMe in an Amfeltec with different widths and speeds.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/amfeltec-x16-pcie-with-4-ssds-5900-mb-s.1936311/post-25247002
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/amfeltec-x16-pcie-with-4-ssds-5900-mb-s.1936311/post-25252615

I would have preferred tests using AmorphousDiskMark.app or maybe ATTO Disk Benchmark.app which both can give higher numbers then AJA System Test Lite.app
PCIe 1.0 x16: 3045 MB/s (MacPro3,1) 3277 MB/s (Hackintosh)
PCIe 2.0 x8: 3270 MB/s (Hackintosh - to do x8 in Mac would require taping some pins)

I also did some tests in a HighPoint SSD7505 with multiple NVMe (using ATTO Disk Benchmark.app instead of a RAID) in a Netstor NA255A connected to the MacPro3,1 (PCIe 3.0 x8 slots with PCIe 2.0 x16 upstream)
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/pcie-ssds-nvme-ahci.2146725/post-29483973

I also tried the SSD7505 directly in the MacPro3,1 slot 2 (without Netstor NA255A)
PCIe 1.0 x16: 3449 MB/s (MacPro3,1)
PCIe 2.0 x16: 6333 MB/s (MacPro3,1)
View attachment 1868480 View attachment 1868481

I've also attached some other tests with PCIe 2.0 x16 for the HighPoint SSD7505:
View attachment 1868486 View attachment 1868487
View attachment 1868488 View attachment 1868489
View attachment 1868482 View attachment 1868483
View attachment 1868484 View attachment 1868485

@joevt ~2800MB/s has nothing to do with upstream, but with the inefficiencies of ASM2824 - AFAIK no one benchmarked it with better results on a MacPro5,1.

 

[ekphratic]

Thanks again.That was easier than expected. Turns out Nvdia 1060 is metal supported . Just not supported on Mojave. I now have firmware 144.0.0.0.0 Here's a pic of my new readings. 3193.57 and 2117.63

 

[quadra605]

I'm using OpenCore to Mojave, El-Capitan, Catalina and Big Sur on the same cMP4-5,1 running various versions of FCPX without any issues. The cMP has RX580 Nitro+ in Slot-1 and Sabrent 1TB NVMe blade in Slot-3 (via an NMVe-to-PCIe adapter).
So specific problem are you having that you can attribute to OpenCore ?

For some reason, software updates & downloads from the Apple store were no longer functioning. Spent half a day trying to suss out the problem with no luck (even called Apple support). I cloned my HD before the OC install, so I was able to get back from where I started, but I use this computer for my work, so I thought I wouldn't attempt that again until I had some downtime during the Xmas holidays and could try installing everything from scratch on a new SSD or NVMe.

EDIT: Installing OC using the step-by-step method is a little above my paygrade, so I did it using the simpler OC 0.7.3 package for HWaccel support posted in the Activate AMD hardware acceleration thread.

 

[Mad Kat]

i can't understand why i am seeing ssd on pcie as external drive ...

moreover, if I try to change sharing and permissions from (info Macintosch SSD) it tells me that it cannot complete the operation because I do not have the necessary privileges ...!

 

[tsialex]

i can't understand why i am seeing ssd on pcie as external drive ...

Simple, don’t matter the interface, installed internally or externally only the SATA drives connected to the backplane southbridge SATA controller are internal for the Mac Pro firmware. This is not news and it’s on the first post, please re-read it, I even made a detailed table for each model year.

moreover, if I try to change sharing and permissions from (info Macintosch SSD) it tells me that it cannot complete the operation because I do not have the necessary privileges ...!

AFAIK, not related in any way to external or internal, look for something else.

 

[Mad Kat]

maybe I have the wrong section, since my pcie Ows accelsior s is for ssd 2.5 "and not nvme

in the first post I did not find it

 

[tsialex]

maybe I have the wrong section, since my pcie Ows accelsior s is for ssd 2.5 "and not nvme

in the first post I did not find it

Are you sure?

What are internal storage for the Mac Pro firmware:
​

Mac Pro year model:	Model Identifier:	What Mac Pro firmware recognise as internal drives:
Mac Pro (2006)	MP1,1	SATA drives connected to the 6 southbridge SATA ports plus the two PATA drives connected to the PATA cable inside the ODD bay.
8-Core Mac Pro (2007)	MP2,1	SATA drives connected to the 6 southbridge SATA ports plus the two PATA drives connected to the PATA cable inside the ODD bay.
early-2008 Mac Pro	MP3,1	SATA drives connected to the 6 southbridge SATA ports plus the two PATA drives connected to the PATA cable inside the ODD bay.
early-2009 Mac Pro	MP4,1	SATA/SAS drives connected to the 4 southbridge SATA ports plus the two SATA drives connected to the SATA cable inside the ODD bay.
mid-2010 Mac Pro	MP5,1	SATA/SAS drives connected to the 4 southbridge SATA ports plus the two SATA drives connected to the SATA cable inside the ODD bay.
mid-2012 Mac Pro	MP5,1	SATA/SAS drives connected to the 4 southbridge SATA ports plus the two SATA drives connected to the SATA cable inside the ODD bay.
late-2013 Mac Pro	MP6,1	Only the PCIe SSD is an internal drive.
2019 Mac Pro	MP7,1	Only the T2 Storage is an internal drive for T2 Security. While the two SATA ports of the logic board are internal for macOS, T2 Security definitions override macOS and you can only boot from SATA native ports with relaxed T2 Security, with external boot enabled with Startup Security Utility. Any PCIe connected storage are external for the firmware and T2 Security.

 

[Mad Kat]

sorry so much, I misunderstood you, I was thinking about the specific model of pcie board with its ssd model, in this case crucial mx500 from 1tb

 

[tsialex]

sorry so much, I misunderstood you, I was thinking about the specific model of pcie board with its ssd model, in this case crucial mx500 from 1tb

Won't matter, only SATA/SAS drives connected to the southbridge SATA/SAS controller are internal. Being a drive connected anywhere else but installed inside the case is irrelevant.

 

[Mad Kat]

unfortunately, having an ati radeon 5770 I cannot go beyond the Boot ROM version MP5.10089.B00 that I installed
i wait until i find a cheap rx 580

thank you so much tsialex

 

[tsialex]

unfortunately, having an ati radeon 5770 I cannot go beyond the Boot ROM version MP5.10089.B00 that I installed
i wait until i find a cheap rx 580

thank you so much tsialex

A BootROM reconstruction can overcome this indirectly, since the never booted image will be 144.0.0.0.0. Anyway, BootROM release has nothing to do with internal/external.

 

[Mad Kat]

I honestly don't know how to do a Bootrom rebuild to update it, I wouldn't want to do some irreversible damage

 

[MacNB2]

For some reason, software updates & downloads from the Apple store were no longer functioning. Spent half a day trying to suss out the problem with no luck (even called Apple support). I cloned my HD before the OC install, so I was able to get back from where I started, but I use this computer for my work, so I thought I wouldn't attempt that again until I had some downtime during the Xmas holidays and could try installing everything from scratch on a new SSD or NVMe.

(Installing OC is a little above my paygrade so I used the OC 0.7.3 package for HWaccel support)

By "using" the OC 0.7.3 package, you are in effect installing OC.
Seems like a mis-step along the way.
Read the step-by-step guide in that HWAccel thread and you will succeed.

 

[joevt]

@joevt ~2800MB/s has nothing to do with upstream, but with the inefficiencies of ASM2824 - AFAIK no one benchmarked it with better results on a MacPro5,1.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the difference between x8 and x16 instead of the difference between ASM and PEX. I see you've made that more clear in your earlier post but you still say the PEX needs to be x16. I think you can safely say PEX x8 is also sufficiently improved over the ASM x8.

 

[tsialex]

Oh, I thought you were talking about the difference between x8 and x16 instead of the difference between ASM and PEX. I see you've made that more clear in your earlier post but you still say the PEX needs to be x16. I think you can safely say PEX x8 is also sufficiently improved over the ASM x8.

Yes, there are benchmarks of cards with the PEX x8 switches with sustained transfers at around the 3200MB/s mark with a single blade while for the cards with the ASM2824 PCIe switch is usually around 2800MB/s.

 

[MarkC426]

i wait until i find a cheap rx 580

Good luck.....
Like most electronic components, prices are going up and up.
Recent prices for RX580 are 3 times what I paid 4 years ago.

 

[davorrr]

Hi all

I wanna run Mojave & Big Sur on cMP5.1

Mojave: Music Production with some legacy apps
Big Sur: UI Design (no 3d, no video editing)

I need 4 TB for each OS. Or at least 2TB for each.

Which silent NVMe Card would you recommend?
Which drives, in which configuration (raid)?

Thanks!

 

[James Murray]

I wound up getting the following storage devices:

Mojave: PNY CS2130 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe Gen3 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD), Read up to 3,500 - M280CS2130-1TB-RB in a kryoM.2 evo PCIe 3.0/4.0 x4 adapter for M.2 NGFF PCIe SSD, M-Key with passive heatsink

Windows: Gold S31 500GB SATA Gen3 2.5 inch Internal SSD | SSD 500GB | Up to 560MB/S | Solid State Drive | Compact 2.5' SSD Form Factor SK hynix SSD | Internal Solid State Drive | SATA SSD​

Startup is much faster now and I'm getting up to 1500 mbps which is expected since I didn't opt for the high price pcie cards. Windows is slightly faster, but the speeds are disappointing. The drive advertises up to 560 MB/S but I'm only getting up to 250 MB/S. Is this because It's connected through SATA? Is that the max I'm going to get with windows. I was advised not to install windows on a drive connected through pcie because it could brick my 2009 mac pro 5,1. I'm not willing to risk that so I think I'll stay with this.

However, I think my life will be a lot easier if I had a boot screen. Since installing my radeon RX 580 I haven't been able to select which OS I want to use on startup and have to use the startup disk app and bootcamp. It's better than nothing but it can get annoying even with the faster startup times. Is there a way to flash my radeon card to get a boot screen? Or can someone link me step by step instructions on how to set up my mac with something like bootrunner so that I can get my boot screen back. Which way i easier?

 

[itrimble1]

Can someone help me ? I have a Mac Pro 5,1 and whenever I try to install an OS (Catalina, Big Sur) to a PCI Nvme (Sabrent), I can't see it on Open Core Legacy boot screen (0.7.3). I can see Operating systems that have been installed onto SATA SSD. Bootrom is at 144.0

 

[MacNB2]

Can someone help me ? I have a Mac Pro 5,1 and whenever I try to install an OS (Catalina, Big Sur) to a PCI Nvme (Sabrent), I can't see it on Open Core Legacy boot screen (0.7.3). I can see Operating systems that have been installed onto SATA SSD. Bootrom is at 144.0

So you can boot off one of the SATA SSD's and see the NVMe drive from the booted SATA macOS and managed to install macOS onto the NVMe but the NVMe drive just does not appear in the OC Boot Picker ?

 

[itrimble1]

I can boot off the Sata macOS. That’s right the boot picker drive doesn’t show the NVMe drives after the installer reboots.

 

[MarkC426]

The drive advertises up to 560 MB/S but I'm only getting up to 250 MB/S. Is this because It's connected through SATA? Is that the max I'm going to get with windows.

An SSD connected to a Mac sata port is sata2 (~250MB/s).
An SSD connected to a Mac pcie slot is sata3 (~500MB/s).

 

[itrimble1]

So you can boot off one of the SATA SSD's and see the NVMe drive from the booted SATA macOS and managed to install macOS onto the NVMe but the NVMe drive just does not appear in the OC Boot Picker ?

I can boot off the Sata macOS. That’s right the boot picker drive doesn’t show the NVMe drives after the installer reboots.

 

[MacNB2]

I can boot off the Sata macOS. That’s right the boot picker drive doesn’t show the NVMe drives after the installer reboots.

When you boot macOS from the SATA drive, can you see the NMVe drive in Finder or Disk Utility ?