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Zaft

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2009
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Brooklyn, NY
just a bit off topic, I was at B&H and was checking out the surface book. I gotta say I was genuinely impressed, Microsoft has done an excellent job. I love that the stylus can magnetically attach to the side.

Once you disconnect it switches straight to tablet mode. My issue with my iPad is that I sometimes feel like I cant trust it.
For example if I want to fill out a form online I may get into a situation where a certain part of the web page is not responsive to touch. I end up getting my Wife's Macbook is finish.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
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Nothing wrong with using looks as a major decision making point.

Besides that point, the context of my post was clearly about design. Not sure what was so difficult for i7guy to grasp there.
[doublepost=1463678767][/doublepost]
I want Apple to take on Samsung and Google head on with more innovations, but the bottom line + complacency says other wise.

Me too. Heck, I've been saying these things for some time now. It doesn't require a bad financial quarter to tell us Apple should be competing harder. All it takes is an honest look at what the competition has been doing.

Again, I think Tim Cook is aware of this. He himself came out publically to hype up the upcoming iPhone. Just hope it lives up to his promise.
 
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Cnasty

macrumors 68040
Jul 2, 2008
3,336
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I am fine with the looks of the iPhone as I think its one of the better devices out there and never cared about the antennae lines.

That being said, I don't need drastic changes but I do need them to work on reducing the bezels, reduce the top and bottom wasted space and give me more screen in the same footprint.

It still amazes me the size and feel of the S7E and it has the same screen size as an IP6S+ and it feels almost 30-40% smaller.

I don't ask for much.
 

Wildo6882

macrumors 6502a
Sep 12, 2015
522
561
Illinois
Nothing wrong with using looks as a major decision making point. I did that with the Galaxy S7 Edge over the S7. The Edge screen is only useful for sports scores. The internals are predictable: dual core A10 processor, 2/3GB of RAM depending on the phone you're going to use, 12 MP camera, latest Wi-Fi and LTE tech, yada yada.

As for performance, A10 chip = highest single score score possible, gets beat on multi-core score by the 823, limited innovation and additional functionality in iOS 10 (not expecting big stuff from Apple anymore), Android continues to offer newer and cooler features, and then people say iOS is better because they're tied to the ecosystem or love Apple's customer service or giving them quick timely updates with no frills. There is a reason why it has that because it's going to bare bones again and again. Tried and true method. The year of meh is in effect. 2017 is going to be the bounce back year.
[doublepost=1463677613][/doublepost]

I want Apple to take on Samsung and Google head on with more innovations, but the bottom line + complacency says other wise.

Very good post. I agree wholeheartedly. I am very "meh" on this year for Apple. I just have a bad feeling about the 2016 iPhone. I also think Apple really needs to step up the innovation game. I don't think they need to completely revamp the phone, but just updating the internals and camera isn't enough when you see what Google is doing these days. Every new thing I see with Android I think to myself "why can't Apple be leading this charge?" As smartphones become the norm, you have to do something more to grab and maintain the customers.
 

Cnasty

macrumors 68040
Jul 2, 2008
3,336
2,106
Very good post. I agree wholeheartedly. I am very "meh" on this year for Apple. I just have a bad feeling about the 2016 iPhone. I also think Apple really needs to step up the innovation game. I don't think they need to completely revamp the phone, but just updating the internals and camera isn't enough when you see what Google is doing these days. Every new thing I see with Android I think to myself "why can't Apple be leading this charge?" As smartphones become the norm, you have to do something more to grab and maintain the customers.

A part of Apple's issue is they have released some very good iPhones lately and excellent iPhones in the 6S series with the great performing internals that they possess. With that most iPhone users will not update and these devices will be sufficient for the next 2-3 years.

You are very right that something needs to entice them to make a new purchase as these devices aren't cheap and if it weren't for lease programs like JOD and NEXT, many would not upgrade at all.

I hate the innovation word sometimes as there is only so much that can be done in the smart phone arena at this time BUT they can Apple innovate which means catch up in adding waterproofing, wireless charging, and other things that other devices already do that Apple fans will flock and come in droves to.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
My sentiments are the same. New and truly innovative ideas would be nice but they understandably come only once in awhile.

Even if Apple just caught up with the competition on a number of different things (this applies to both hardware and software) that'd at least be something.
[doublepost=1463682499][/doublepost]Oh, no.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Appl...loy-a-passcode-to-unlock-their-device_id81301

Apple adds another rule forcing iPhone and iPad users to employ a passcode to unlock their device

If you haven't used a passcode to unlock your iPhone or iPad in six or more days, and at the same time TouchID hasn't been employed in eight hours, you will need to tap in your passcode to unlock your phone or tablet.



Apple seriously needs to let all these inconvenient "security" measures be a toggle. Not just for unlocking your phone, but for the App Store payments, too. No one is saying they shouldn't implement security features, but they should be optional. Let users decide how "secure" they need their phone to be. Everyone has different needs.
 
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nviz22

Cancelled
Jun 24, 2013
5,277
3,071
A part of Apple's issue is they have released some very good iPhones lately and excellent iPhones in the 6S series with the great performing internals that they possess. With that most iPhone users will not update and these devices will be sufficient for the next 2-3 years.

You are very right that something needs to entice them to make a new purchase as these devices aren't cheap and if it weren't for lease programs like JOD and NEXT, many would not upgrade at all.

I hate the innovation word sometimes as there is only so much that can be done in the smart phone arena at this time BUT they can Apple innovate which means catch up in adding waterproofing, wireless charging, and other things that other devices already do that Apple fans will flock and come in droves to.

Well, I do agree they perform well enough to last 2-3 years, we cannot forget that the product is dependent on parts because one part (intentionally) could give out in 18 months of ownership. Apple has had battery replacement programs or software bog down otherwise good working older generation phones. Playing catchup isn't really the innovation part unless they bring something new to the table. The only thing I think Apple has down right year in year out is the processor designs that they have their partners manufacturer. They used to be known as the best mobile camera designers w/ software and hardware plans.

I am okay without having an ips68 rating on the iPhone, but a ips53 should be a goal like the HTC 10. Wireless charging, as nifty as it is, is really in its infancy because a lot of the phones today cannot charge as quick as a standard USB plug in the wall. Lightning takes like 3 hrs to charge, which is really bogus imo. I used to believe the #ed years were for major redesigns and the S was for software and introducing one killer feature (Siri (4S), Touch ID in the 5S, etc). But the 6S didn't add that killer feature. 3D Touch is very average at best.
[doublepost=1463683666][/doublepost]
Very good post. I agree wholeheartedly. I am very "meh" on this year for Apple. I just have a bad feeling about the 2016 iPhone. I also think Apple really needs to step up the innovation game. I don't think they need to completely revamp the phone, but just updating the internals and camera isn't enough when you see what Google is doing these days. Every new thing I see with Android I think to myself "why can't Apple be leading this charge?" As smartphones become the norm, you have to do something more to grab and maintain the customers.

Thanks. I wouldn't say it has to be a bad feeling, but it's not particularly a good feeling. My confidence in a good 2016 iPhone dropped a bit recently because of all the 2017 plans. If you didn't tell me that AMOLED, USB Type C, etc could be coming in 2017, then I would be like well only Apple knows about the 7, but I truly hope it will be great. I want the 7 to be good, but if it's a 6S type of upgrade from the 6, I don't think I'll make the switch. With a new grad program, increased living expenses, etc, it is hard to upgrade to the newest iPhone this year. I preemptively had AppleCare in mind with the 6S+ just to cover my phone for 2 years and have the ability to sell it higher than your avg seller close the launch cycle. But I learned my lesson, hold onto buying phones at launch. I got burned at the Nexus 5X launch. Paid $430 for it and then a month later, price dropped to $350. Luckily, I was able to return the phone and go get the $350 priced one.
[doublepost=1463683800][/doublepost]
Besides that point, the context of my post was clearly about design. Not sure what was so difficult for i7guy to grasp there.
[doublepost=1463678767][/doublepost]

Me too. Heck, I've been saying these things for some time now. It doesn't require a bad financial quarter to tell us Apple should be competing harder. All it takes is an honest look at what the competition has been doing.

Again, I think Tim Cook is aware of this. He himself came out publically to hype up the upcoming iPhone. Just hope it lives up to his promise.

I am sure someone will say "Apple sells more iPhones than ever" in a media report even in a down expected year for the 2016 iPhones. Idk what to believe with the SE because Apple says it has a ton of demand, the media says not much demand, and then says okay, there is some demand. As for i7guy, he/she is really pro Apple, so they're not going to critique Apple as much as others in the Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices section.
 

admob71

Suspended
Feb 13, 2014
903
538
MANCHESTER, ENGLAND.
I hate the innovation word sometimes as there is only so much that can be done in the smart phone arena at this time BUT they can Apple innovate which means catch up in adding waterproofing, wireless charging, and other things that other devices already do that Apple fans will flock and come in droves to.
Are you trying to suggest that playing catch up with wireless charging and waterproofing can be classed as innovation.. boy are you easily pleased...
 
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epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
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I am sure someone will say "Apple sells more iPhones than ever" in a media report even in a down expected year for the 2016 iPhones.

And who knows. Maybe it will go on to be another record-breaking iPhone release. If the rumors turn out all true and Apple releases a modestly updated iPhone 7, it could still go on to sell extremely well because of the Apple brand. Again, no other manufacturer gets away with what Apple gets away with.


Speaking generally to everybody now...

This is why I argue that we cannot judge the merits of the actual smartphone on financial figures. They are non-sequiturs; it doesn't logically follow that whichever company has the highest valuation, or has the most marketshare, or brings in the most profit is the company that has the best smartphone.

Thinking such ways is folly. And invoking it in conversations that have nothing to do with finances and everything to do with the actual technology is even dumber.
 

Cnasty

macrumors 68040
Jul 2, 2008
3,336
2,106
Are you trying to suggest that playing catch up with wireless charging and waterproofing can be classed as innovation.. boy are you easily pleased...

Hence why I termed it Apple Innovation.

And yes that would make me very pleased with a new iPhone at this point.

Foldable screens, virtual reality, and some of the other things people are so excited for because its "innovation" have zero interest from me and innovating things just to innovate when it won't make any difference to the largest percentage of people.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
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https://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/19/catcher-glass-body-iphone-coming-2017/

Apple's iPhone Casing Supplier Says 'Only One Model' Will Shift to Glass in 2017


Only one model of the 2017 iPhone will be glass? Interesting rumor. Perhaps this is the model that'll have wireless/contactless charging? (Can contactless charging be done with aluminum?). If this really is the case, that'll mean Apple is once again saving the best features for the higher end model. Not the first time we've heard these sorts of rumors (even now, the Plus model has OIS while the standard doesn't).

I love glass design smartphones. But not feeling these rumors of saving them only for the highest and most expensive models (EDIT: Also largest model. Not all of us like giant phones). All speculation now anyway, so we'll see. But man, that would suck.

At least with Samsung, the difference between the two make sense. The S7E has the larger screen cause it's a larger device. It has a larger battery because it's a larger device. It has Edge features because it has an edge screen that best supports it. There's not much else that forces you to go S7E; you still get all the main bells and whistles with the S7.

If Apple does this with the dual-camera and the iPhone 7 this year, then do it again with the glass model and wireless charging next year for 2017, it'll be a very frustrating time for iPhone devotees. I sincerely hope neither comes true.

EDIT 2: Not just wireless/contactless charging, but this might mean the edge-to-edge OLED display would only be for that same high-end, most expensive, and largest model? Not liking these rumors...
 
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admob71

Suspended
Feb 13, 2014
903
538
MANCHESTER, ENGLAND.
Hence why I termed it Apple Innovation.

And yes that would make me very pleased with a new iPhone at this point.

Foldable screens, virtual reality, and some of the other things people are so excited for because its "innovation" have zero interest from me and innovating things just to innovate when it won't make any difference to the largest percentage of people.[/QUOTE

I think You maybe need to check the meanings of the words Innovation and Copying, you seem to have them Confused..

Let me guess tho, when Apple copies, it's OK..
 
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epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
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I can't imagine Apple is the only one researching contact-less charging.

It'd be a natural progression from wireless charging for other OEMs to explore. Surely Google or Samsung -- with their large R&D budgets -- are looking into this sorta stuff, I would think?
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,160
25,279
Gotta be in it to win it
Nothing wrong with using looks as a major decision making point. I did that with the Galaxy S7 Edge over the S7. The Edge screen is only useful for sports scores. The internals are predictable: dual core A10 processor, 2/3GB of RAM depending on the phone you're going to use, 12 MP camera, latest Wi-Fi and LTE tech, yada yada.

As for performance, A10 chip = highest single score score possible, gets beat on multi-core score by the 823, limited innovation and additional functionality in iOS 10 (not expecting big stuff from Apple anymore), Android continues to offer newer and cooler features, and then people say iOS is better because they're tied to the ecosystem or love Apple's customer service or giving them quick timely updates with no frills. There is a reason why it has that because it's going to bare bones again and again. Tried and true method. The year of meh is in effect. 2017 is going to be the bounce back year.
[doublepost=1463677613][/doublepost]

I want Apple to take on Samsung and Google head on with more innovations, but the bottom line + complacency says other wise.
So you think you figured it out exactly? Looks are most subjective thing and I like the timeless look of the iPhone; but I wouldn't base my buying decision on that. To each their own.
 

nviz22

Cancelled
Jun 24, 2013
5,277
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So you think you figured it out exactly? Looks are most subjective thing and I like the timeless look of the iPhone; but I wouldn't base my buying decision on that. To each their own.

There wouldn't be more info on 2017 out already if 2016 was expected to be major iPhone overhaul. If a phone is an eyesore, why would people want to use it? Looks can be subjective, but at the same time, it has to be a significant part of a cell phone purchase since it's like purchasing a car.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,160
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Gotta be in it to win it
There wouldn't be more info on 2017 out already if 2016 was expected to be major iPhone overhaul. If a phone is an eyesore, why would people want to use it? Looks can be subjective, but at the same time, it has to be a significant part of a cell phone purchase since it's like purchasing a car.
What phone is an eyesore? What manufacturer produces a flagship eyesore in 2016? I agree about the car analogy to a certain extent, but i tend to go for what's under the hood not what's on top of the hood.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
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What phone is an eyesore? What manufacturer produces a flagship eyesore in 2016? I agree about the car analogy to a certain extent, but i tend to go for what's under the hood not what's on top of the hood.

People who are discussing design don't care about what's under the hood?
 

nviz22

Cancelled
Jun 24, 2013
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What phone is an eyesore? What manufacturer produces a flagship eyesore in 2016? I agree about the car analogy to a certain extent, but i tend to go for what's under the hood not what's on top of the hood.

LG. Their G5 is hideous. Especially with the LG "friends" attachments. But what if the thing that is under the hood is artificially skewered and doesn't handle the latest and greatest: VR, wireless charging, quick charge, etc?
 
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epicrayban

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LG. Their G5 is hideous. Especially with the LG "friends" attachments. But what if the thing that is under the hood is artificially skewered and doesn't handle the latest and greatest: VR, wireless charging, quick charge, etc?

Sounds like you'd need a strong brand following to sell such a device... especially if it's ugly, too?
 
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Wildo6882

macrumors 6502a
Sep 12, 2015
522
561
Illinois
The argument that you worry about what's under the hood and not the physical appearance is incredibly comical to me. They go hand in hand. The nicest looking phone/car that functions like garbage won't succeed, and the opposite is true. The ugliest of phone/car with great internals will have trouble succeeding, because whether you like it or not, people make decisions based off of physical appearance. On EVERYTHING. You need the best combo of both to have success.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
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The argument that you worry about what's under the hood and not the physical appearance is incredibly comical to me. They go hand in hand. The nicest looking phone/car that functions like garbage won't succeed, and the opposite is true. The ugliest of phone/car with great internals will have trouble succeeding, because whether you like it or not, people make decisions based off of physical appearance. On EVERYTHING. You need the best combo of both to have success.

Precisely.

It's pretty evident he's just making up strawmans, implying people who want to discuss the design of the rumored iPhone 7 don't care about what's under the hood. Like he's the only person who cares about "innards."

Even if i7guy doesn't care about aesthetics, Apple does. They pride themselves to be the leader in design. I mean, has anyone heard the way Jon Ive talks? And seen how much time they spend discussing design at their keynotes? More importantly, most people care about design too. The public cares and reviewers care. It's alwaya a point reviews discuss. Most people view Apple as a leader in this respect. Might these people be disappointed if the iphone 7 design rumors prove true?

Or does he think until it becomes official, we can't talk about rumors? At a forum about rumors?

Don't we discuss design all the time here about other rumored phones? Where is he then to defend those OEMs or explain to us that it's the innards that count? If he doesn't care about design, why is he even partaking in the conversation? And partaking in a way where he just criticizes people. You know, for the crime of talking about rumors at a forum about rumors.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,160
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Gotta be in it to win it
Precisely.

It's pretty evident he's just making up strawmans, implying people who want to discuss the design of the rumored iPhone 7 don't care about what's under the hood. Like he's the only person who cares about "innards."

Even if i7guy doesn't care about aesthetics, Apple does. They pride themselves to be the leader in design. I mean, has anyone heard the way Jon Ive talks? And seen how much time they spend discussing design at their keynotes? More importantly, most people care about design too. The public cares and reviewers care. It's alwaya a point reviews discuss. Most people view Apple as a leader in this respect. Might these people be disappointed if the iphone 7 design rumors prove true?

Or does he think until it becomes official, we can't talk about rumors? At a forum about rumors?

Don't we discuss design all the time here about other rumored phones? Where is he then to defend those OEMs or explain to us that it's the innards that count? If he doesn't care about design, why is he even partaking in the conversation? And partaking in a way where he just criticizes people. You know, for the crime of talking about rumors at a forum about rumors.
Surely even YOU can see without knowing about the innards is gross speculation on top of rumor. Apple sold multiple tens of millions of 6s and I'm one that likes the design; I'm not worried about the design at all, but I realize people have strong opinions all the way around.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
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Surely even YOU can see without knowing about the innards is gross speculation on top of rumor. Apple sold multiple tens of millions of 6s and I'm one that likes the design; I'm not worried about the design at all, but I realize people have strong opinions all the way around.

Help me understand. So discussion about a rumored design is "gross speculation on top of rumor" if there isn't info also about the innards? We can't ever discuss design alone? Please enlighten us on how we're supposed to discuss rumors at a rumor website.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,160
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Gotta be in it to win it
Help me understand. So discussion about a rumored design is "gross speculation on top of rumor" if there isn't info also about the innards? We can't ever discuss design alone? Please enlighten us on how we're supposed to discuss rumors at a rumor website.
Your thinking this is not a worthy upgrade based on the case alone explains your position very clearly. Although you have said "you hope Apple gets it right" in other places you have expressed the opposite. Capishe? So You are expressing conflicting views.
 
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