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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
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Gotta be in it to win it
They didn't copy the iPad, but they did use it as inspiration. The same could be said for the iPad Pro and the SP3.
Just look at the automotive industry to see blatant examples of "copying". It's like fashion, trends go in and out. Making a bigger device is not necessarily copying as the form and function for those two devices are both similar and world's apart.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
Just look at the automotive industry to see blatant examples of "copying". It's like fashion, trends go in and out.

Keep in mind I'm not really making the copying accusation. I'll point out when things are very obviously inspired by, but really, I could care less who did what first, so long as I get a better product out of it.

Making a bigger device is not necessarily copying as the form and function for those two devices are both similar and world's apart.

If I weren't so lazy, I'd make a Venn diagram showing how I think the iPP and the SP4 meet in the grand scheme of computery goodness. They both have some overlap, but the SP4 leans in on it more from the laptop angle, and the iPP more from the tablet end.

Though in two-three years or so, I think we're going to have two products that are nearly the same.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
Keep in mind I'm not really making the copying accusation. I'll point out when things are very obviously inspired by, but really, I could care less who did what first, so long as I get a better product out of it.



If I weren't so lazy, I'd make a Venn diagram showing how I think the iPP and the SP4 meet in the grand scheme of computery goodness. They both have some overlap, but the SP4 leans in on it more from the laptop angle, and the iPP more from the tablet end.

Though in two-three years or so, I think we're going to have two products that are nearly the same.
You might be right about the time frame, but the style is different. A Bentley and an accord have the same mission, to get you to a destination but the style is different; in no way saying one tablet is this or that just pointing out they way they accomplish the end game is different.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
If you think the iPP is a SP copy, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I disagree, I think iPad pro is a direct response to the Surface Pro.
12" display
smart cover -> Type Cover
Pencil -> Stylus.

If looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, its a duck. Sure, Apple put their own spin on it, like using iOS because they don't want to cannibalize both iPad and Mac sales if it ran OS X. They also added a few niceties to the pencil.

Overall Apple saw how popular the Surface Pro line was doing, and how iPad sales were shrinking. They copied Microsoft and called it an iPad Pro
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,077
19,072
US
I disagree, I think iPad pro is a direct response to the Surface Pro.
12" display
smart cover -> Type Cover
Pencil -> Stylus.

If looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, its a duck. Sure, Apple put their own spin on it, like using iOS because they don't want to cannibalize both iPad and Mac sales if it ran OS X. They also added a few niceties to the pencil.

Overall Apple saw how popular the Surface Pro line was doing, and how iPad sales were shrinking. They copied Microsoft and called it an iPad Pro
I agree.....I will even go a step further and say it is a bad copy at that. It lacks the functionality and user options the SP4 has going for it. More ports and a true desktop OS to run applications. Then the stylus has more functionality as well.
But if I were an illustrator by profession....then the IPP would be a perfect fit.

This article at The Verge suns up the app problem with the IPP and "Pro" apps.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/19/9757516/ipad-pro-apps-pricing-ios-developers-opt-out
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
I disagree, I think iPad pro is a direct response to the Surface Pro.
12" display
smart cover -> Type Cover
Pencil -> Stylus.

If looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, its a duck. Sure, Apple put their own spin on it, like using iOS because they don't want to cannibalize both iPad and Mac sales if it ran OS X. They also added a few niceties to the pencil.

Overall Apple saw how popular the Surface Pro line was doing, and how iPad sales were shrinking. They copied Microsoft and called it an iPad Pro
I just bought a surface pro 4 and knew from experience I needed to up the base model hardware, to do what I needed to. Price went up exponentially.

If Windows wasn't needed vs getting an iPad I could have gotten along with the base model ipp. I see the ipp as Apple getting into the bigger tablet market as the original surface after the success of the iPad.

The sp4 hardware is expensive, I bought a laptop for myself because two sp4s were out of the question.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
agree.....I will even go a step further and say it is a bad copy at that. It lacks the functionality and user options the SP4 has going for it.
The one thing I really like with my SP3, is the ability to put that in my dock, and use my 24" monitor, keyboard and mouse. While not as fast as my MBP, its a great machine and allows me to access/use desktop apps.

The IPP isn't a bad machine, and it looks great, I do hand it to apple for making a beautiful designed tablet. Its hamstrung for my uses, because its running a mobile OS, and you cannot use normal USB peripherals.
 
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jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,077
19,072
US
The one thing I really like with my SP3, is the ability to put that in my dock, and use my 24" monitor, keyboard and mouse. While not as fast as my MBP, its a great machine and allows me to access/use desktop apps.

The IPP isn't a bad machine, and it looks great, I do hand it to apple for making a beautiful designed tablet. Its hamstrung for my uses, because its running a mobile OS, and you cannot use normal USB peripherals.
Exactly.... I was all set on getting the IPP after the keynote after the product announcement. I was stoked until I looked at what my use cases were. First it is a first gen product and I think it needs a second or third revision to get it right so to speak. Just like it has taken MS to get the SP to where it is now.
The lack of ports and ability to plug in say a USB hard drive/SD Card to offload/onload content restricts the IPP IMHO.
Then IOS restricts it further by not having a file system like OSX.
 

Robisan

macrumors 6502
Jan 19, 2014
339
2,059
The one thing I really like with my SP3, is the ability to put that in my dock, and use my 24" monitor, keyboard and mouse. While not as fast as my MBP, its a great machine and allows me to access/use desktop apps.

The IPP isn't a bad machine, and it looks great, I do hand it to apple for making a beautiful designed tablet. Its hamstrung for my uses, because its running a mobile OS, and you cannot use normal USB peripherals.

iOS-based devices can never fully serve in a 'professional' environment. There are too many limitations that are non-starters.

You're at an important client meeting and they pull out a thumb drive with something they want you to see right now - you're SOL with the ipp. Need to give a copy of the confidential contract you just revised to your clients at the meeting - SOL. Need to print the contract at a location that doesn't have AirPrint - SOL. Get back to your office with your beautiful 27" display - sorry SOL with your ipp. Use a mouse as a productivity tool - SOL.

The real world limitations of iOS are just not professional.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
iOS-based devices can never fully serve in a 'professional' environment. There are too many limitations that are non-starters.

You're at an important client meeting and they pull out a thumb drive with something they want you to see right now - you're SOL with the ipp. Need to give a copy of the confidential contract you just revised to your clients at the meeting - SOL. Need to print the contract at a location that doesn't have AirPrint - SOL. Get back to your office with your beautiful 27" display - sorry SOL with your ipp. Use a mouse as a productivity tool - SOL.

The real world limitations of iOS are just not professional.
I don't know where you work, but we regularly have presentations and meetings with iOS devices. Financial services, medical, aviation are just three examples of industries well supported by iOS.

The typical example of: "I need this binary hacked" doesn't really happen in these industries.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,422
Oh I think we all know in the market place it is Apples copy of the Surface Pro. The marketing shows that even. Replace your desktop and has Pro work flow apps. Yes it copies alright.

Except it's different in so many ways.

I disagree, I think iPad pro is a direct response to the Surface Pro.
12" display
smart cover -> Type Cover
Pencil -> Stylus.

If looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, its a duck. Sure, Apple put their own spin on it, like using iOS because they don't want to cannibalize both iPad and Mac sales if it ran OS X. They also added a few niceties to the pencil.

Overall Apple saw how popular the Surface Pro line was doing, and how iPad sales were shrinking. They copied Microsoft and called it an iPad Pro

The iPad Pri is basically a 13" display. Also, it's not the same simply because accessories. It is trying to solve the same problem, yes, but going about it from a different angle. If they had made the OS X tablet some ask for, that would have been copying. This is merely evolving the iPad.
 

Robisan

macrumors 6502
Jan 19, 2014
339
2,059
I don't know where you work, but we regularly have presentations and meetings with iOS devices. Financial services, medical, aviation are just three examples of industries well supported by iOS.

The typical example of: "I need this binary hacked" doesn't really happen in these industries.
Meanwhile, you avoided comment on every limitation I mentioned.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
IOW, you've got nothing and your attitude embodies my signature. Will ignore accordingly.

one can come up with most inane and mythical of situations that even the most advanced hardware won't be able to handle; which is what seems to happen in this forum. Your example is just that; a perceived limitation. However in the event of people bringing out multiple flash drives at once, I carry a laptop along with my goodies with 4 use ports.
 

Robisan

macrumors 6502
Jan 19, 2014
339
2,059
one can come up with most inane and mythical of situations that even the most advanced hardware won't be able to handle; ... Your example is just that; ...

Oh good lord. My examples were:

- Need to use a USB drive
- Need to share a confidential document file
- Need to print
- Want to use a monitor
- Want to use a mouse

In what world are these everyday technology needs/desires "inane and mythical?"

However in the event of people bringing out multiple flash drives at once, I carry a laptop along with my goodies with 4 use ports.

So, if you have to carry a laptop 'just in case' what's the point of investing $1,000+ in an IPP? I mean seriously, your solution to the IPP's limitations is bring a laptop too? Really? smdh...
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
Oh good lord. My examples were:

- Need to use a USB drive
- Need to share a confidential document file
- Need to print
- Want to use a monitor
- Want to use a mouse

In what world are these everyday technology needs/desires "inane and mythical?"



So, if you have to carry a laptop 'just in case' what's the point of investing $1,000+ in an IPP? I mean seriously, your solution to the IPP's limitations is bring a laptop too? Really? smdh...

Let me try this again, my company does use ipads for presentations. If I'm making a presentation to a potential 50 or 100 million account you bet I'm going to come armed to the teeth with technology and backup technology. These days, nothing is quite so unwieldy as to preclude one from carrying around multiple redundant pieces of equipment including a small printer for contracts on the spot. If anything comes up out of the ordinary I have the equipment to handle it without shutting down the presentation mid-stream.
 

oneshotpro

Suspended
Aug 13, 2014
192
92
The ipad pro is an updated ipad; more specs, bigger screen yada, yada, yada. What did apple copy with the ipad?

hmm, forgetting when surface came out, little tim cook had a laugh on stage about how it was a tablet and laptop? what does apple do? make a "pro" version of the ipad and brings out a keyboard that attaches similar to surface. there's your copy.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,158
25,268
Gotta be in it to win it
hmm, forgetting when surface came out, little tim cook had a laugh on stage about how it was a tablet and laptop? what does apple do? make a "pro" version of the ipad and brings out a keyboard that attaches similar to surface. there's your copy.
So forgetting that microsoft copied a popular form factor, apple copied a keyboard design, which you could say was a better idea than the magnetic cover that put the ipad into sleep mode. I think it's safe to say they all copy good designs. A laptop it's (the ipp) not as the laptop has a different quantifiable experience.
 
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AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
Guys, seriously. Can we stop with the bickering? Who ripped off who isn't the discussion.

Products shape the market research of other companies. CEOs lie to protect their products. Marketing lies to differentiate themselves from their competitors. The greatest progress in technology, whether it be the cell phone, the space race, or the sequencing of the human genome, occurs through (at best) collaboration or (at worst) cheating. If Apple didn't have Android, it would still be the garbage iPhone 3G. If Android didn't have iOS, it would look like a Blackberry.

So can we knock it off on this stupid discussion and agree that the tech industry is great because competition improves the environment?
 
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chagla

macrumors 6502a
Mar 21, 2008
797
1,727
I don't know where you work, but we regularly have presentations and meetings with iOS devices. Financial services, medical, aviation are just three examples of industries well supported by iOS.

The typical example of: "I need this binary hacked" doesn't really happen in these industries.
you must not be using email attachments also... i mean, only pictures are legitimate business email attachments of course.
 
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