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phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432
1966 Star Trek had to walk a fine line. They were about social issues, but they couldn't be too loud about it. The famous Kirk/Uhura kiss couldn't be just a kiss, it had to look like aliens were forcing them to do it. And many southern towns refused to air thst episode.

Today's ST isn't about agenda, it just can be more agressive in portraying its social issues. If you want to call it "agenda," fine. But its an effort to fight an agenda that is going pn now in many states where you can't even talk about "gay" in schools and transgender bans are popping up everywhere. New ST is just responding to the times in equal force.
There certainly is an agenda and it is rather clear to many. Various Trek shows covered different facets of sexuality whether it is a progenator (sp) or Tripp getting impregnated by an alien in Enterprise and so on. Various other non ST shows have successfully included non typical hetero couples, stories, love interests and more. However, Discovery is decidedly different in that it doesn't just include but pushes to the front and certain we can see such a strong emphasis of zeroing out white males in leadership and promoting all key characters mostly female, alien or gay (and associated alphabet). People enjoy the doctor and his love interest, they enjoy the Trill notion but when it comes to lead characters ...it is as said - a very decided agenda who gets pushed to the front at all costs.
 
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decafjava

macrumors 603
Feb 7, 2011
5,502
8,013
Geneva
As the second episode of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds arrived exclusively on Paramount+, the first episode was made available to stream for free on YouTube in the USA.

Decafjava - Location: Geneva Switzerland.

Time to switch franchise "Commence primary ignition" target: exclusive streaming services. :mad:
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
There certainly is an agenda and it is rather clear to many. Various Trek shows covered different facets of sexuality whether it is a progenator (sp) or Tripp getting impregnated by an alien in Enterprise and so on. Various other non ST shows have successfully included non typical hetero couples, stories, love interests and more. However, Discovery is decidedly different in that it doesn't just include but pushes to the front and certain we can see such a strong emphasis of zeroing out white males in leadership and promoting all key characters mostly female, alien or gay (and associated alphabet). People enjoy the doctor and his love interest, they enjoy the Trill notion but when it comes to lead characters ...it is as said - a very decided agenda who gets pushed to the front at all costs.

So putting women and gay/transgender in the foreground (for once) is an "agenda?" All those examples you gave were one-off episodes. New ST is now giving these marginalized people center stage for once. And women are half the population, so of course they will get sa lot of screen time. LGBTQIA may be 10 percent or more of the population, another significant chunk. Certainly all worth more than a few episodes, or as background characters.
 

phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432
So putting women and gay/transgender in the foreground (for once) is an "agenda?" All those examples you gave were one-off episodes. New ST is now giving these marginalized people center stage for once. And women are half the population, so of course they will get sa lot of screen time. LGBTQIA may be 10 percent or more of the population, another significant chunk. Certainly all worth more than a few episodes, or as background characters.
No one said not to have them in the foreground but rather not by exclusion or near exclusion which is exactly what they did. There is no getting around it and you can parade a banner all you want but it doesn't change what they did.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
No one said not to have them in the foreground but rather not by exclusion or near exclusion which is exactly what they did. There is no getting around it and you can parade a banner all you want but it doesn't change what they did.

"what they did" - you make it sound like a bad thing.
 

phrehdd

macrumors 601
Oct 25, 2008
4,477
1,432

I believe the first televised interracial kiss. :)

End of clip
A common misconception. There were a few. However, the notoriety that S.T. got was as much as a previous one that showed on the BBC. You may want to check various sources, consider even Wiki that gives you a list.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
As I am a straight white male, I have no banner to wave.

But fear not. A straight white male is once again leading a ST series in Strange New Worlds. So the world is back in order.
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,977
27,056
The Misty Mountains
I like both Anson Mount and Rebecca Romijn so I should give this a try. My question, it is unlikely I would watch this via YouTube on my iPad browser, and I don’t have a YouTube TV subscription, nor Paramount subscription, so I wonder what I’ll see if I look for a YouTube app on my TV? If it is being released weekly, anyone know how many episodes in S1? I’d likely watch the first episode and then wait long enough to see the season in a one month subscription.
 

ThunderSkunk

macrumors 601
Dec 31, 2007
4,067
4,535
Milwaukee Area
The plots are sophomoric and irrelevant, the characters were weak, unlikeable, and underserving of any respect, stylistically they're unimaginative, dull and not representative of the ideas that made star trek interesting. The concept has nothing in common with star trek aside from throwing the word federation around once in a while, it's indistinguishable from any post-9/11 high dollar, low effort dystopian allegory. They didn't learn, and pursued the same dismal progression as StarGate and so many others from a fun, bright, colorful exploration adventure to a bunch of miscreants confined in dark metal boxes grinding away tediously in pointless power plays based on stupid monkey fights. If I wanted to sit through any more of that drek I'd just watch everything else made in the last twenty years. No part of NuTrek was actually good enough for me to even care about my god-given grievances about them not putting actors with my own personal superior skin color, gender, and sexuality at the forefront of these shows like the enlightened die-hard Star Trek fans here.
 
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wordsworth

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2011
328
283
UK
I'm currently watching Voyager again (on DVD). Last time I watched it was when it was originally broadcast on terrestrial TV in the UK, weekly, quite a few years ago now. I think the series stands the test of time and a second viewing exceptionally well, as I imagine do its predecessors (including Enterprise). It is my belief that this is so because the episodes were focused as much on the characters involved as they were the plots. It was a terrifically successful balancing act and each episode was/is easy to watch, significantly because one cares about and warms to the characters and their relationships with one another and with the lifeforms they encounter. It's believable.

I watched the first season of Discovery and found it tedious to the point of hard work. I didn't care about any of the characters because the scripts weren't well enough written to get me to do so. Characterisation took a distant second place to thrills and spills. There was a failure to make the characters real enough for viewers (or this viewer, at any rate) to care about them. They weren't real enough. Because it has a hollow heart as a result of superficial characterisation, that first season had already failed before it got off the ground. I am in no hurry to watch season two. Similarly, I watched a handful of episodes of Picard and thought they were incredibly tedious too. Again I didn't care about the characters as realised on screen. Yet I loved TNG.

In my opinion a story is only as good as the people involved and how they are portrayed. If you get that wrong then your story isn't good enough, no matter what else you do.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
The plots are sophomoric and irrelevant, the characters were weak, unlikeable, and underserving of any respect, stylistically they're unimaginative, dull and not representative of the ideas that made star trek interesting. The concept has nothing in common with star trek aside from throwing the word federation around once in a while, it's indistinguishable from any post-9/11 high dollar, low effort dystopian allegory. They didn't learn, and pursued the same dismal progression as StarGate and so many others from a fun, bright, colorful exploration adventure to a bunch of miscreants confined in dark metal boxes grinding away tediously in pointless power plays based on stupid monkey fights. If I wanted to sit through any more of that drek I'd just watch everything else made in the last twenty years. No part of NuTrek was actually good enough for me to even care about my god-given grievances about them not putting actors with my own personal superior skin color, gender, and sexuality at the forefront of these shows like the enlightened die-hard Star Trek fans here.

You must be fun at parties.

OK, I'll get off the lawn.
 
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Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
Yet I loved TNG.

People tend to remember the good parts of TNG. But forget that the frist two seasons, epecially the first, had some cringeworthy episodes.

But in the end, people need to come to grips that TNG is over, has been over for 20 years, and is never coming back. The world - and Star Trek - move on.
 
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Mousse

macrumors 68040
Apr 7, 2008
3,649
7,086
Flea Bottom, King's Landing
Agreed. For me, Discovery created some challenges. First was every timeline (show) before the leap 900 years was for nothing. Who ever came up with the idea of an alien kid playing with matches and burning down the store (okay, wiping out the dilithium crystals) made everything before in terms of the Federation worthless. Then jump into the future where all those things that make for S.T. are contaminated with today's politics in a sledgehammer approach.
Good gawd. I hope the powers that be in the ST universe makes all the ST: Discovery (STD🙃) stuff part of an alternate ST universe like they did with JarJar Abrams' Star Trek. Please don't let it happen in Star Trek-616 ie the main Star Trek universe.

1966 Star Trek had to walk a fine line. They were about social issues, but they couldn't be too loud about it. The famous Kirk/Uhura kiss couldn't be just a kiss, it had to look like aliens were forcing them to do it. And many southern towns refused to air thst episode.
I read a lot of folks say the Kirk/Uhura kiss was a smokescreen to keep critics/censors from the social issues the creators wanted to bring to light. If they didn't add the interracial kissing, critics/censors would have made a big stink over the social issues ST brought up.

edit: stupid emoji😒
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
Good gawd. I hope the powers that be in the ST universe makes all the ST: Discovery (STD🙃) stuff part of an alternate ST universe like they did with JarJar Abrams' Star Trek. Please don't let it happen in Star Trek-616 ie the main Star Trek universe.


I read a lot of folks say the Kirk/Uhura kiss was a smokescreen to keep critics/censors from the social issues the creators wanted to bring to light. If they didn't add the interracial kissing, critics/censors would have made a big stink over the social issues ST brought up.

edit: stupid emoji😒

Plus, it seemed ridiculous that aliens had to force the kiss. Uhura was super-hot. I would have done it without prodding :)
 

Mainsail

macrumors 68020
Sep 19, 2010
2,429
3,234
I just watched the pilot of STSNW, and I rather enjoyed it. Like all series, it takes time for the characters to develop, but I can see how these are going to grow on me. Look forward to watching more.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
I just watched the pilot of STSNW, and I rather enjoyed it. Like all series, it takes time for the characters to develop, but I can see how these are going to grow on me. Look forward to watching more.

I liked it too. Anson Mount is great as Pike.

Well, people for years complained about all the new ST serilization. Now they are getting the most ST show since TOS - episodic. Let's see if we get new complaints because it isn't exactly like TNG.
 

cwerdna

macrumors 6502a
Jan 19, 2005
575
215
SF Bay Area, California
I like both Anson Mount and Rebecca Romijn so I should give this a try. My question, it is unlikely I would watch this via YouTube on my iPad browser, and I don’t have a YouTube TV subscription, nor Paramount subscription, so I wonder what I’ll see if I look for a YouTube app on my TV? If it is being released weekly, anyone know how many episodes in S1? I’d likely watch the first episode and then wait long enough to see the season in a one month subscription.
I don't find it likely that Paramount will release all eps of SNW via YouTube. As for some of your other questions, they're answered at https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Strange_New_Worlds#Season_1.

Ethan Peck is doing a pretty good job as Spock so far (from the 2 SNW eps that have been released so far) and they're giving him pretty good lines.
 
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cwerdna

macrumors 6502a
Jan 19, 2005
575
215
SF Bay Area, California
I watched the first season of Discovery and found it tedious to the point of hard work. I didn't care about any of the characters because the scripts weren't well enough written to get me to do so. Characterisation took a distant second place to thrills and spills. There was a failure to make the characters real enough for viewers (or this viewer, at any rate) to care about them. They weren't real enough. Because it has a hollow heart as a result of superficial characterisation, that first season had already failed before it got off the ground. I am in no hurry to watch season two. Similarly, I watched a handful of episodes of Picard and thought they were incredibly tedious too. Again I didn't care about the characters as realised on screen. Yet I loved TNG.

In my opinion a story is only as good as the people involved and how they are portrayed. If you get that wrong then your story isn't good enough, no matter what else you do.
FWIW, my memory is getting foggy now but I liked Disco seasons 1 thru 3 despite it being so different than other Trek shows. But, oh boy... season 4 wasn't so great. I really didn't care that much about the "DMA".

Picard S1 had very uneven plot density. Ending of Picard S1 was good. I'm a huge TOS and TNG fan (once you omit most of S1 and a fair amount of S2). Eventually, TNG got to be overall pretty good and is a pretty high bar to meet.

Picard S2 eps 1 and 2 were really good. The rest of the S2 had its ups and downs.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,977
27,056
The Misty Mountains
The plots are sophomoric and irrelevant, the characters were weak, unlikeable, and underserving of any respect, stylistically they're unimaginative, dull and not representative of the ideas that made star trek interesting. The concept has nothing in common with star trek aside from throwing the word federation around once in a while, it's indistinguishable from any post-9/11 high dollar, low effort dystopian allegory. They didn't learn, and pursued the same dismal progression as StarGate and so many others from a fun, bright, colorful exploration adventure to a bunch of miscreants confined in dark metal boxes grinding away tediously in pointless power plays based on stupid monkey fights. If I wanted to sit through any more of that drek I'd just watch everything else made in the last twenty years. No part of NuTrek was actually good enough for me to even care about my god-given grievances about them not putting actors with my own personal superior skin color, gender, and sexuality at the forefront of these shows like the enlightened die-hard Star Trek fans here.
I thought the first season of Discovery was good, but then it fizzled with the second season where practically every episode was a rolle coaster ride.
 
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