Can it do 10 hour battery life? What about the apps? Are they any optimized for tablet use? windows simply doesnt have the same app ecosystem and it shows. So yes - the surface pro is okay if you dont mind using a mouse or trackpad once in a while but it is nowhere in the same league as the ipad pro is on that aspect.
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Surface Pro 4 vs iPad Pro and the future of pro tablets
- Thread starter Wiesenlooser
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Can it do 10 hour battery life? What about the apps? Are they any optimized for tablet use? windows simply doesnt have the same app ecosystem and it shows. So yes - the surface pro is okay if you dont mind using a mouse or trackpad once in a while but it is nowhere in the same league as the ipad pro is on that aspect.
I think this is going to be one of those things where everyone is going to have to agree to disagree. It's been about 13 pages now of everyone restating the same thing
Actually the non pro surface tablet has similar battery life to the ipads. As for windows programs not being optimized you are talking about hundreds of thousands of programs at your disposal, versus none on iOS. Windows universal scaling is very good, but you're right, far from ideal. Still, you have the choice of using them, a choice which is taken away with iOS. I'd rather have the choice to use them, and I can always hook up a mouse, or even plug it into a dock and use a full size setup to do my work. Ntrig is very good, it has better edge detection than Wacom and is maturing, but as it stands from what I have read the Apple pencil is better than the SP pen so for a graphic artist that is certainly a viable option if they don't need a windows program to draw.
Sure there is always compromise, but that's on both sides. Neither device is perfect, far from it, they both have their own flaws and issues for sure.
Fairly close, the non pro surface can do about 8. There are a lot of apps optimized for tablet use, there is also universal scaling which improves on the scaling of programs and IMO is the right way to do things, instead of having watered down apps which are a hindrance instead of a benefit. As comical as "apps" are for the most part on an ipad, using them on a huge ipad pro is even more comical to me, that huge green "GO" and huge red "STOP" button in that app must be awesome in how simple it makes things. In all seriousness, I don't really use any apps on my SP4, I just don't see the need.
That's my personal use though, and all joking aside I understand some consumers such as yourself need apps, I just never really understood why for the most part now that win10 has universal scaling, continuum, universal apps, etc. While windows worked from making full fledged programs more accessible to touch, iOS worked from making simple apps more complex. Windows programs never lost functionality and keep improving markedly in terms of touch use. Where iOS apps began life heavily handicapped, and have not really evolved much if at all, continuing to be for the most part blown up phone apps.
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This is why I will never trust microsoft and their precious surface devices. How can they put out a device with this many issues? Also, no one should have to go through driver updates, disabling software apps, and other things just to get a device reasonably functional. The one thing about apple is that their devices just work and battery life is usually never a issue. I have the iPad pro and it has mostly replaced my laptop...it has no bugs and everything works smoothly with over 11 hours of battery life, never even worry about it. I prefer good ios apps because they are instant and allows my work to be performed easier. Some people like the old way of doing things on a pc but there is a lot of lag time when using pc apps in comparison to ios apps.
I agree the tablet experience on Android is just not as good compared to IOS on Ipads, but however i think Android will IMPROVE and get better on tablets in the future especially with the Pixel C.
The Pixel C has fantastic hardware and for the software ls great but it could be better like they need to get split sceen(multi windows) on to Android(especially for the Pixel C) like Samsung have Multi Windows on there Galaxy Tabs and there are already rumours that the splt sceen will come in to the next Android version(Android 6.0/N) next year which is AWESOME and all so i think the 1 thing that Google really really NEEDS to do and to improve on is to get developers to make a lot lot more more tablet optimized software for Pixel C and for other Android tablets like the Nexus 9, Tab S2, Nvidia SHIELD tablet K1, lots more, it is not as good compared to the Ipad for tablet optimized software but hopefully it will get better in the future for tablet optimized software on Android sooner then later!!!
Anyway rather than that, I think the Pixel C will be a big/huge and more of a success then the Nexus 9 for Google and personally i think the Pixel C is definitely a awesome and a very powerful/high end premium 10 inch Android tablet(or hybrid) and i think tablets like the Pixel C are the future of tablets and if i was in a market for a 10 inch Android tablet then it would definitely be the Pixel C hands down 100%!!!
IMO with respect to tablets, Windows has made it very difficult for android. Why would I accept the limitations of android when I can have full windows? From the surface pro to this unbranded bestbuy 10" tablet from cowboom I got for $50 (that has windows 10 and is updated regularly
Yeah i am in the same boat as you, i do think Windows 10 tablets/hybrids are better then Android tablets in most ways then Android and are making Android tablets obsolete but except one thing that Windows is terrible at and that is in the app/program that are touch friendly apartment on tablets i still give Android the edge over Windows because Android have lots lots of apps/programs that are very touch friendly in the Play Store compared to Windows as they don't have many top quality touch friendly apps in there app store and most of there programs on the desktop are designed for mouse imput, not touch input so there are lots of programs that you need a mouse and keyboard which is not good and is frustrating to use on tablets for example Gimp(a great image editing program which is like Photoshop) and Windows Movie Maker and lots more!
To be honest my prediction i think if Microsoft somehow make there Windows OS a lot lot more touch friendly then it is now at the moment and get developers to make a lot lot more very touch friendly(and top quality) apps/programs for Windoes tablets/hybrids then i won't be surprised, i think Android tablets(definitely NOT Ipads) in general will become obsolete and disappear fron the tablet market and Android will only be on phones, phablets and smartwatches in the future and it will be only the Ipads with IOS(the king of tablets) and Windows tablets/hybrids in the tablet market.
Honestly personally i do think Ipads have a way way far better future(and won't struggle) in the Tablet market then Android tablets against Windows tablets as Apple are very very serious and seem to care about the tablet market with the Ipad with IOS unlike Google(with there tablets and Android) and since the birth of Windows 8/10 tablets, i don't really see the point of Android tablets anymore which is a shame as i do like Android tablets but i way way 100% prefer Ipads very much over Android tablets by far simply because the tablet experience is miles miles better on Ipads for IOS then on Android tablets.
Of course time will tell obviously and it will be very very interesting to see where the tablet market will go and what will happen to the tablet market in the future.
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You never know in the the future Google might make a 12 inch version of the Pixel C with Android who knows..
For me personally i am glad that Google decided to make a 10 inch version rather then make a 12 inch version of the Pixel C because at being 10 inches is not too big and is very portable unlike the 12 inch tablets.
Neither good or bad. It's just that PC sales are biggest around the $400-700 range and tablets around the $350-500 range.
So a $1000+ tablet or laptop / hybrid device will always be niche compared to the cheaper (mainstream) alternatives which sell in far greater quantities.
Therefore to say 'most people' want either the iPad pro or surface pro 4 is wrong as based on sales numbers 'most people' are not buying either.
Haha to me i think the Ipad Pro is a hybrid, it's more like a tablet with a optional keyboard rather than a proper hybrid because it has a optional keyboard just like the Surface Pro line and the Google's Pixel C and i do think the Ipad Pro is Apple's answer to Microsoft's Surface Pro line even tho Apple does not call the Ipad Pro a hybrid and does not have a full desktop OS.
As far as apps versus programs, it's like the Swiss Army knife analogy on the last page. Personally, the SP devices feel like they can do quite a lot of things but not many particularly well. "Blown up phone apps" is directed at the IPP a lot from those that favor the Surfaces, but programs there feel a lot like shrunken desktop software, and that's honestly just as damning. It's easy to say that iOS apps are "watered down" from the outside, but in many instances you're confusing diluting with distilling; in translating programs found on OS X or Windows 10 into iOS, functionality needs to be stripped, the most important parts therein selected out. Consider a simple word processing app on iOS like Editorial; feature-wise, it's a bit more bare bones than Word or many equivalent full desktop apps, but the refined focus of this app lets you work more productively when you don't require these niche features.
Ultimately, we choose our devices based on what they do for us on the margin -- what they add to our existing setup. In this sense, and launch problems aside (which I assume MS will iron out in due time), I think the Surfaces are great devices for those looking for a single, mobile computing device. But these are also devices that seem a bit pointless from the perspective of someone with a powerful at-home Windows desktop setup. In this case, much of what the Surfaces can do is a replication of the Windows desktop, but worse -- compute time is slower, there's less screen space to look at results, and so on. Moreover, since the Windows "app" landscape is a bit of a wasteland relative to the iOS App Store, the Surfaces don't offer a whole lot in the way of new experiences.
Technically, I don't think either the SP line, iPP, or Pixel C are hybrids. They're all sold as standalone tablets meaning their manufacturers are indicating that they are fully capable without any additional bits. The Surface Book, Asus Transformers, or Lenova Yoga devices are true hybrids as all offer both laptop or tablet functionality out of the box. I think the general feeling that the SP 3/4 line is also a hybrid is because it's a much better laptop than tablet, a personal point of contention since Microsoft doesn't include the necessary hardware for this functionality.
In regards to what devices compete with either others...even if Apple is stating they don't intend the iPP to be a competitor to the SP, that's irrelevant. Consumers determine competition. If a customer is looking at possibly purchasing an iPP, its competition is whatever other devices they are also considering. If the SP4 is on that shortlist in many cases, regardless of what Apple 'says', it's a direct competitor.
But it still fails to take into account that there are very little tablet apps available, nor have there been many for ages despite Microsoft trying to get developers onboard. Unless MS can change that, their tablet experience will continue to be dismal. It doesn't help having desktop apps for tablet. If it was that simple, devices like the Modbook would have been an overwhelming success. There have to be tablet apps because when you are carrying a device around like a tablet, you don't want to have to interact with a non-tablet interface or apps.
That's interesting, especially the part about diluting versus distilling. Very interesting and I love discussions like this. For me I still think diluting is the proper word, otherwise that functionality would not exist to begin with. Certainly that comes with the caveat of what the user needs, but mass produced devices cannot be tailor made like that. Certainly whether we play semantics and call it diluted or distilled, there IS still something missing in the functionality of an "app" and that's a huge downside to iOS, once again for my needs and wants.
As for the desktop versus tablet, I'm not sure I follow. I can't put my desktop into bed with me, I can't carry my desktop on the train or to the dentist office. As far as new experiences I see them all the time on windows, lack of new experiences is deadly to software developers. If anything iOS seems quite stale and lacking in new experiences to me.
Once again we are just batting back and forth our personal opinions, both platforms are viable depending on the persons needs.
PS: I was being a bit facetious with the swiss army knife analogy. IMO the SP is a better tablet, laptop and overall computer than the IPP so it gets to have the functionality/size of a swiss army knife, but also have the power of all the individual components as if they were full size. I still haven't had anyone successfully tell me why an ipad is a better tablet, other than the "apps" argument which I personally don't agree with, but am not saying is wrong depending on the user.
I hear this argument over and over and can't fully agree with it. I'm not saying I fully disagree, I just think the need for watered down apps is overblown. As overblown as it was, after Win10 and universal scaling it's that much more overblown. MS is working hard to lessen the app gap, but part of their strategy is to shape the UI in windows to be more friendly instead of making an entirely new and limited watered down OS. Although it's still a work in progress.
The need for full blown tablet apps is lost for you because you're a desktop user sitting in an office all day. You are less than 10% of people in business. Your posts are I, I, I. This is the same mistake that most tech writers make. They don't understand who a device is aimed at so they review it for themselves.
So in short, you are not the representation of the average person. The average person in business has a low computer literacy and does not sit on computer forums. The average surface user probably has an above average computer literacy although they'll need more than that to solve the bugs
So in short, you are not the representation of the average person. The average person in business has a low computer literacy and does not sit on computer forums. The average surface user probably has an above average computer literacy although they'll need more than that to solve the bugs
The bugs are irreversible for the user, it's firmware with how the Surface Pro 4 graphic chipset (Intel 520) communicates with Windows. There's a power management issue, such as knowing when sleep mode is enabled or not. Microsoft simply released a half-baked product and expect us Surface users to pay to test their half-baked product. At least with Apple they iron the large kinks out before release.
very interesting points, do you play WoW on the macbook? have you looked into if you are able to play it on the IPP? (I have not just asking)
How do you know I'm a desktop user sitting in an office all day? Is it possible that I'm actually on my feet all day with a tablet in hand showing patient's different studies and results? Is it possible I use my tablet on the road to write a ton of reports while away from the office? Is it possible I use my tablet at seminars and meetings to take notes, go over research, collaborate with colleagues, etc? FYI your posts are I, I, I as well. NEWS FLASH it's a forum, everyone's posts are I, I, I, 99% of the posts are just people spouting their opinions and how their device fits their needs, myself included.
You are also short changing the average ipad consumer, which is a common theme on here. Why justify the simplicity of iOS by saying how stupid ipad buyers are. Because they are not, they've just been herded into this mentality that "apps" are needed when they are writing that doctorate on the subway with one hand on the pole. So you strip out functionality, make some buttons larger and that's progress? I want MORE functionality out of my devices as technology matures, not less. I have many desktop apps which retain desktop functionality yet have a UI just as good as any app out there. "full blown" and "app" together is an oxymoron.
Yes because Apple would never release the ipad pro if it became unresponsive with a black screen, needing a manual reboot... oh wait....
iPhone 2007 essentially was a beta product in terms of software.
The iPhone 2008 had essentially the same exact hardware (processor, ram, camera, and display).
Because it's a tablet app, not a desktop app. It's designed to interact with a finger, not a keyboard and mouse. That's what a tablet is! It's NOT a desktop.
The ease of use is what people like. People can interact with a tablet with little to no training.
Why do I have to use a keyboard/mouse to interact with a desktop program? Why do I have to use my finger to interact with a tablet app? You shouldn't pigeon hole yourself so badly into these made up paradigms. That's the beauty of windows 10 it is very malleable depending on your situation, especially the direction continuum is headed in. Personally I'd rather NOT be stuck in a paradigm where all I have are apps which can only be interacted with my finger. So my tablet CAN indeed be my desktop as well, where your ipad can only be a tablet and nothing else.
I think you're missing the point of tablet, but that doesn't seem to be the only thing you're missing.
The only beauty of Windows 10 is when it actually works. Once that happens, speak to me about features.
The only beauty of Windows 10 is when it actually works. Once that happens, speak to me about features.