I know this post is almost a year old but the new keyboard is significantly far worse than the old one wtf.I.E. learn to type. The keyboard is far superior to the previous one.
I know this post is almost a year old but the new keyboard is significantly far worse than the old one wtf.I.E. learn to type. The keyboard is far superior to the previous one.
I know this post is almost a year old but the new keyboard is significantly far worse than the old one wtf.
You're in the minority then. I use both quite often, and there is definitely far less travel on the new keyboards, and they feel as if you're typing on wood. It's genuinely awful, in my opinion.I disagree. I think it’s way better. I use both daily and it’s like going from typing on a moldy sponge to typing on a responsive keyboard. I think most who have “tried it” have limited experience.
I disagree. I think it’s way better. I use both daily and it’s like going from typing on a moldy sponge to typing on a responsive keyboard. I think most who have “tried it” have limited experience.
Then it seems like they've had a Mac for all the wrong reasons. If a keyboard redesign means you completely switch your workflow, I think that says a lot about your workflow, or priorities.
I think two repair programs and likely a 3rd for the 2018 keyboards, will put you on the wrong side of history for that claim, other than personal opinion. YOU prefer the new keyboards and think it's way better. Not saying your alone in that feeling, but there is no evidence to support it being "way better" other than your own personal preference.
The bit about "I think most who have "tried it" have limited experience. Well, see your own comments about anecdotes with no evidence.
You're in the minority then. I use both quite often, and there is definitely far less travel on the new keyboards, and they feel as if you're typing on wood. It's genuinely awful, in my opinion.
No, but it seems most people do hate the keyboard. Its a rarity that some folks really like the keyboard. I tend to see those people who defend apple at all cost, say they love the keyboard and then most other normal users mostly hate it.So if you don’t like something, it automatically mean that everyone disagreeing with you is in minority?
No, but it seems most people do hate the keyboard. Its a rarity that some folks really like the keyboard. I tend to see those people who defend apple at all cost, say they love the keyboard and then most other normal users mostly hate it.
You're in the minority then. I use both quite often, and there is definitely far less travel on the new keyboards, and they feel as if you're typing on wood. It's genuinely awful, in my opinion.
Um, yes? Perhaps it says that people greatly value the keyboard on their laptop computers?
I disagree, I think more people dislike the keyboard then like, There's way more negativity about the keyboard then any other factor with the laptop. Personally I don't care if people like or hate the keyboard. What bothers me the most is people spending a lot of money only to have many of the face a keyboard that has failed.More like some people hate the keyboard and shout about it at every possible opportunity.
3 model years and counting and that hasn't happened, I give apple credit trying the silicone cover, but I think they're fairly closed minded in accepting the fact that the butterfly mechanism is a flawed design. For many reasons, I, like many other long time apple fans are moving on.Of course, all this is orthogonal to the fact that Apple should improve its game and fix some if it’s outstanding deficiencies.
I think two repair programs and likely a 3rd for the 2018 keyboards, will put you on the wrong side of history for that claim, other than personal opinion. YOU prefer the new keyboards and think it's way better. Not saying your alone in that feeling, but there is no evidence to support it being "way better" other than your own personal preference.
The bit about "I think most who have "tried it" have limited experience. Well, see your own comments about anecdotes with no evidence.
I think that we can agree about the 2016 redesign being one of the most polarizing redesigns in Apples history (except maybe Air, but that was a new product). Many of the elements, be it all out USB-C, the touchbar, the thinner chassis (that some irrationally associate with lower performance) or the keyboard - had put it some of the loyal Apple customers and triggered a strong negative reaction. Then again, it’s a normal process of change and based on Apples financial reports, their new laptops sell well and generate plenty of interest. I see no need in over-interpreting this.
Of course, all this is orthogonal to the fact that Apple should improve its game and fix some if it’s outstanding deficiencies.
When I say that I think it’s way better I was referring to the typing experience. It does seem they’ve had problems (as I’ve agreed with in previous posts on this subject).
Are you intentionally mischaracterizing what I said? Or do you not understand what a fact is versus an anecdote, and how a discussion works? I said that I think the keyboard is better, not that most people, or some number of people think it’s better. One of those is just my opinion, the other is something that, if asked, I’d have to back up with some sort of evidence.
You do clearly understand the distinction, right?
I think most who have "tried it" have limited experience
That says nothing about the keyboard (which is significantly better than the 2015 model and prior)
"I think most who have “tried it” have limited experience."Are you intentionally mischaracterizing what I said? Or do you not understand what a fact is versus an anecdote, and how a discussion works? I said that I think the keyboard is better, not that most people, or some number of people think it’s better. One of those is just my opinion, the other is something that, if asked, I’d have to back up with some sort of evidence.
"I think most who have “tried it” have limited experience."
The way that you worded this point makes it sound like most people would like it if they had more experience with it, that they don't like it because they didn't use it long enough to get used to it. It's kind of implied by your wording that most people would like it with enough experience with it.
Not saying your opinion is right or wrong, but @SDColorado is not trying to mischaracterize what you are saying, just calling out that your wording does imply that.
I personally am ok with the keyboard, but I do like the traditional keyboards better with further travel. I mostly use a bluetooth keyboard on my 2017 MacBook Pro for that reason (and I have my Mac docked most of the time).
3 model years and counting and that hasn't happened, I give apple credit trying the silicone cover, but I think they're fairly closed minded in accepting the fact that the butterfly mechanism is a flawed design.
I wouldn't say it is a normal, or desired process of change. That's downplaying the issue here. [...] If I were to downplay change as progress, I could say all major wars were part of progress, which makes it seem like we should just accept atrocities for the sake of change.
To properly wrap that up in context - much of this generation's change that first occurred at the 2016 year was guided by principles of aestheticism and resulted in a lot of discontent.
Unknowable comments about peoples experience and even worse claims such as Leman's "More like some people hate the keyboard and shout about it at every possible opportunity" are simply being dismissive of others preferences and experiences.
Not at all meaning you or any particular person in this thread or any other by this comment, but it is a shame that people can't simply express dislike or negative opinions of the Apple products they spent (a lot) of their hard earned money on and use daily, without people accusing them of being haters, being dismissive of them and accusing them of repeating the "echo chamber" of negativity.
I really liked your post and I agree with most of its content. But I can't shake the feeling that your rhetoric is at least a bit biased here towards your own view. My reply (which you quoted) is admittedly snarky, but I think that one can forgive me for being snarky replying to statements along the lines "the majority fo users hates the new keyboard because me and some other dudes on the forums say so".
I am fully aware that there are people who dislike the new keyboard, just as there are people who don't see a point in HiDPI screens ,or having modern connectors, or laptop portability. You can't make everyone happy.
This is strange, since my impression is quite the opposite. I feel that these days, you can't say anything positive about some of the recent changes, since there will immediately an army of critics telling you how you are in minority and how everyone hates these Macs.
I find it increasingly difficult to have constructive discussions since rational arguments, empirical data, and taking the larder context into account don't seem to be welcome that much. Baseless generalisations, unwillingness to learn the technical aspect of the discussed topic, shutting down the opponents are commonplace. Was it ever different? No idea, maybe the member structure on the forums has changed. But I've been here long enough and I am also a fairly active user, and I can definitely claim that I feel a change in the overall tone — one that I really dislike.
Mischaracterizing you? Not at all. You jumped all over a fellow forum member for making a claim you felt he lacked the evidence to back up. But you have made a couple of unprovable statements regarding the keyboards.
While I agree you used "I think" to preface one...
These aren't statements of fact. The first is your own personal opinion (if you truly even hold that opinion) without having any knowledge of how long people have "tried" the keyboard. As for the second, other than your own personal opinion (which you did not preface the quote by saying it was) what makes the new keyboard "significantly better than the 2015 model and prior? The fact that *you* prefer them makes them superior?
Those kinds of statements are no more correct or provable than if I made the claims:
"I think most who defend the new keyboards have little to no experience with them."
"That says nothing about the keyboard (which is markedly inferior to the 2015 and prior").
With the exception that the keyboard repair programs already in place and likely a soon to be third one for 2018, would lend at least a little credence to my second "claim."
I am not going to make claims of what I "think" others experience has been with the keyboard. I have no way of knowing. Nor am I going to try to claim one is significantly better than the other. Sticking to facts only, the new keyboards have been problematic in ways the previous ones were not.
It is my own personal opinion, that the new ones are in no way "significantly better" than 2015 and prior and are in many ways inferior, but clearly, some do like and prefer them.
My own experience with the new keyboards is similar to that of @maflynn. I tolerate them. I have had a 2016 since launch and tolerated. I find my 2018, of which I have also had one since launch, to be slightly better but still only tolerable. I find the key travel to short, the keys themselves cheap, thin and flimsy feeling, the wear even on this 3 months old one to be alarming and the overall typing experience to be akin to taping my fingers on a table. In addition to that, I have already had issues with 2 2018 models having keyboard problems. One returned and another temporarily "fixed" by having to repeatedly mash the key until it began to work again. Inexcusable for a $4500 machine.
Unknowable comments about peoples experience and even worse claims such as Leman's "More like some people hate the keyboard and shout about it at every possible opportunity" are simply being dismissive of others preferences and experiences.
If people like the new keyboards and prefer them. That is great news for them. Use them, enjoy them, love them!
But that doesn't mean that there aren't those who will disagree, regardless of experience. Or have a different opinion or impression. It also doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't like them is just repeating an echo chamber of dislike.
Not at all meaning you or any particular person in this thread or any other by this comment, but it is a shame that people can't simply express dislike or negative opinions of the Apple products they spent (a lot) of their hard earned money on and use daily, without people accusing them of being haters, being dismissive of them and accusing them of repeating the "echo chamber" of negativity.
This thread hasn't been half as bad as the "Abandoning Ship" thead which has just gotten bizzare at times.
Making a statement like that is implicitly an opinion. Making a claim that some number has changed is a factual claim.
Do you understand the difference?
My views are based on my experiences, my likes, my dislikes, my issues/problems, etc. I have no idea how long you, @maflynn, @Painter2002, @Queen6 or anyone else has "tried" the new keyboards and why would I even try to guess or state what I "think" may be the case. I can all but guarantee my guess would be wrong.
What is wrong with just not liking everything about a product?
That said, I have never had my fingers ache after using a keyboard the way this one makes my fingers ache.
I understand that you seem to want to argue a fine point on something you have accused others of doing. One user gave his opinion and you were all over him, but your opinion needs no evidence.
The difference is in the standard.
Hanging on to last MBP that had glowing logo so I forget which year it was..2015? Can't deal with the new kbs that I tried in store. Most likely will switch back to windows for a laptop and kill any desire for an ipad altogether.