'The Samsung Galaxy S6 Sales Disaster'

[sunking101]

Why shouldn't Apple?

This is a capitalistic society. Each company creates a product, decides the price to charge, then leaves it to the market to sort it out for themselves. The consumer chooses at the end of the day how he wants to spend his money. Nobody is pointing a gun at his head and forcing him to buy an Apple product.

From its sales, Apple has shown that outstanding design and integration can drive markets, moreso than price and specs. Yet instead of trying to study and understand this phenomena, people just choose to dismiss, even deny and denigrate it.

Go figure.

That's all well and good. I'm an iPhone user of approx five years so I'm not denying the attraction of these devices. However, from my own standpoint they're living on former glories. I used to happily pay more for a better quality build and software that 'just works'. These days though, rival devices have the same build quality, iOS software is no less buggy than Android, and no less laggy than Android. Hardware-wise we get old tech LCD screens, a paltry & it must be said insufficient amount of RAM, big chunky yesteryear bezels and the entry level devices come with a miserly 16GB of storage space (with no facility to expand it). Look at the competition...most have entry level storage of 32GB and trading up is good value for money, not the $100 Apple charge. They pack plenty of RAM, have the latest tech displays and cutting edge design when it comes to bezels etc. Apple used to be the King of making unfeasibly small devices but now all they can do is 'thin'.

If I wasn't immersed in the Apple way and heavily invested in their ecosystem, I mean if I was in the market for my first smartphone I'm pretty sure it would be an Android device. Far too many of us rest on our laurels and continue to read from the Apple gospel but really, the latest iPhones aren't their best work. Not by a long chalk.

 

[Abazigal]

Which markets is Apple driving with outstanding design and integration vs price?
If you are referring to iPhones, the only countries with any significant iPhone marketshare are all subsidy markets, which completely contradicts your statement. In countries where the iPhone and flag ship Android phones are similarly priced Apple has next to nil marketshare (save for China. It is the one country that defies this phenomina).

If you are referring to iPads, the only sales we have seen in the last 2 years have been declining, with lower priced Mini's outselling higher priced Air's. Price and competition from competing Android tablets has demolished Apple's early lead in the tablet market.

If you are referring to Macs, Apple has never been a market leader to drive anything. They did influence the wedge style for the ultra-portable laptop though.

If you are referring to Apple TV, accessories or any other product Apple makes, including software, they have never been in a position to drive the industry forward. In fact, they usually wait to add tech based on what the industry is shown as being popular.

Lastly, we have the Apple Watch. While a few million Apple users will buy this product (simply because they have no other alternative available to them), time will tell if the watch has any influence on the market as a whole. But based off sales data (after the first hour of pre-orders), sales are looking pretty pathetic. Will have to wait and see if sales pick up, once people can buy one in an Apple Store or a Best Buy.

P.S. Don't forget, Apple is really just a one product company. The iPhone accounts for over 70% of all Apple's profits.

Apple has routinely jumped into markets that were struggling to gain traction and transformed them into lucrative, highly-desirable markets.

We saw it with the iPod, iPhone, macbook, iPad and now Apple Watch. Look at the design of the smartphone pre-iphone and post-iphone. Look at what the iPad did for the tablet market compared to all the windows-based slate tablets before it.

The MacBooks drove the entire ultrabook trend and encouraged manufacturers to create laptops that were thinner, lighter and with better battery life. And Macs accounted for 50% of the PC market's profits despite its minority market share.

In each and every one of these markets, Apple has rewritten the rules and dyed each industry in its own image. It's not that hard to look at the myriad of tech products in the market today and see some aspect of it which has probably been influenced by Apple's design language in one form or another.

 

[Truefan31]

Apple has routinely jumped into markets that were struggling to gain traction and transformed them into lucrative, highly-desirable markets.



We saw it with the iPod, iPhone, macbook, iPad and now Apple Watch. Look at the design of the smartphone pre-iphone and post-iphone. Look at what the iPad did for the tablet market compared to all the windows-based slate tablets before it.



The MacBooks drove the entire ultrabook trend and encouraged manufacturers to create laptops that were thinner, lighter and with better battery life. And Macs accounted for 50% of the PC market's profits despite its minority market share.



In each and every one of these markets, Apple has rewritten the rules and dyed each industry in its own image. It's not that hard to look at the myriad of tech products in the market today and see some aspect of it which has probably been influenced by Apple's design language in one form or another.

Honestly I never thought of that. They weren't the first but they redefined the market in each category. Good post.

 

[Lloydbm41]

Apple has routinely jumped into markets that were struggling to gain traction and transformed them into lucrative, highly-desirable markets.

We saw it with the iPod, iPhone, macbook, iPad and now Apple Watch. Look at the design of the smartphone pre-iphone and post-iphone. Look at what the iPad did for the tablet market compared to all the windows-based slate tablets before it.

The MacBooks drove the entire ultrabook trend and encouraged manufacturers to create laptops that were thinner, lighter and with better battery life. And Macs accounted for 50% of the PC market's profits despite its minority market share.

In each and every one of these markets, Apple has rewritten the rules and dyed each industry in its own image. It's not that hard to look at the myriad of tech products in the market today and see some aspect of it which has probably been influenced by Apple's design language in one form or another.

You said:

From its sales, Apple has shown that outstanding design and integration can drive markets, moreso than price and specs.

I showed you this was not the case. Price IS a major factor in every products success, even the ones Apple makes. If you took subsidies away from the US, Japan, UK, etc... you'd watch iPhone sales tank.

If you want to go strictly off design, then fine. But don't pretend that success and pricing don't go hand in hand.

 

[I7guy]

You said:



I showed you this was not the case. Price IS a major factor in every products success, even the ones Apple makes. If you took subsidies away from the US, Japan, UK, etc... you'd watch iPhone sales tank.

If you want to go strictly off design, then fine. But don't pretend that success and pricing don't go hand in hand.

If you took subsidies away, watch all phone sales tank, even for the cheapo models. However, subsidies will never be taken away, they will/are be replaced by loans in various incarnations across the vendors.

 

[adnbek]

And the IOS platform....is up against Android on phones. Also remember this is the way Apple wants it. They chose this path.....

Again, you make it sound like that's a bad thing. It's the right path so I don't see what's the issue.

It's like you're saying that Apple should license iOS or OSX to other OEMs to capture market share in the mobile phone or computer market. That would be a big mistake in both cases. It's by having exclusive control of the platform that they've done so well vs. the competition. They control their own market as they have no competitors running iOS.

If you are a Windows/Android OEM, you are always fighting to hold on to your marketshare since brand loyalty is more platform dependent than OEM dependent. An Android fan dissatisfied with Samsung phones can simply switch to another Android phone from another OEM or vice versa. Just like in the PC market as well. Easy to keep using a platform you like without being tied to one manufacturer, so it's a constant battle being waged to remain competitive whether it be by differentiation, price, features or specs.

Not so with iOS or OSX. They can release their devices on their own terms because no one competes with them within the same platform.

In both cases, this strategy has proven to work well for Apple. I see no reason again why it's a bad thing.

 

[jamezr]

Again, you make it sound like that's a bad thing. It's the right path so I don't see what's the issue.

It's like you're saying that Apple should license iOS or OSX to other OEMs to capture market share in the mobile phone or computer market. That would be a big mistake in both cases. It's by having exclusive control of the platform that they've done so well vs. the competition. They control their own market as they have no competitors running iOS.

If you are a Windows/Android OEM, you are always fighting to hold on to your marketshare since brand loyalty is more platform dependent than OEM dependent. An Android fan dissatisfied with Samsung phones can simply switch to another Android phone from another OEM or vice versa. Just like in the PC market as well. Easy to keep using a platform you like without being tied to one manufacturer, so it's a constant battle being waged to remain competitive whether it be by differentiation, price, features or specs.

Not so with iOS or OSX. They can release their devices on their own terms because no one competes with them within the same platform.

In both cases, this strategy has proven to work well for Apple. I see no reason again why it's a bad thing.

I think you missed the context......
I think it is in Apple's best interest NOT to license IOS

 

[GadgetSN]

You said:



I showed you this was not the case. Price IS a major factor in every products success, even the ones Apple makes. If you took subsidies away from the US, Japan, UK, etc... you'd watch iPhone sales tank.

If you want to go strictly off design, then fine. But don't pretend that success and pricing don't go hand in hand.

What subsidies are you talking about? There are no subsidised iphones in the UK. In fact it is the high price of Apple handsets and how so many people are willing to pay them that has destroyed the concept of subsidised phones. Carriers now simply mask the full price of phones into monthy payments. Isnt it the fact that Android phones are more heavily subsidised and thus cheaper and therefore should sell more? I bought my Note 4 three months after launch at around 60% of launch price. To this day I cant find any discounts on the iPhone 6.

You will probably find the S6 more easily subsidised than the iPhone 6.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Seriously, no offence, but I don't debate touchy feely BS. I prefer to live in a world of facts. As soon as a company can sell you on the subjective bs, you're done as a consumer.

That's a very strange viewpoint. So you don't buy products based on taste and on aspects that you personally like? Instead you buy based on what you deem are facts and what a particular company markets to you. Sorry but I'm with the other guy, I buy what I like and not what I am told to like. Some people think certain phones are overpriced but that only depends on each persons financial position. I don't mind paying for a product that I feel gives me what I want and need.

If you buy a phone because it ticks all the boxes with specs and you like the facts that are marketed to you I think that is also fine. It just highlights that this sort of thing is very subjective and you can't judge other people's choices in your own. It doesn't work like that.

 

[adnbek]

I think you missed the context......
I think it is in Apple's best interest NOT to license IOS

I got your context. I'm just saying that by keeping it a closed platform running on a few select devices, they will never surpass in marketshare a platform that runs on every other device out there. It's just impossible. It's like expecting Macs to capture 90% marketshare of the PC industry too. It'll never happen.

And it doesn't matter because their sales are doing well regardless. It's a disingenuous argument to use marketshare to determine whether Apple is successful or not when clearly no one can deny their (continued) success in both industries.

 

[I7guy]

I got your context. I'm just saying that by keeping it a closed platform running on a few select devices, they will never surpass in marketshare a platform that runs on every other device out there. It's just impossible. It's like expecting Macs to capture 90% marketshare of the PC industry too. It'll never happen.

And it doesn't matter because their sales are doing well regardless. It's a disingenuous argument to use marketshare to determine whether Apple is successful or not when clearly no one can deny their (continued) success in both industries.

Jameszr tries to play devils advocate on many threads. Unfortunately it comes off as more flip/flops than a house of pancakes.

Market share does matter for the brand. However in this case android has to earn its keep for companies using this o/s. To googles credit they have invented a system where a reasonable phone can be had for a decent price. To Apple credit they have invented a walled garden ecosystem. Google is giving away on o/s allowing manufactures to be virtually hardware only. Where Apple is a software/hardware company, even though it outsources.

The strategic direction for both companies are different and should be.

 

[skratch77]

What subsidies are you talking about? There are no subsidised iphones in the UK. In fact it is the high price of Apple handsets and how so many people are willing to pay them that has destroyed the concept of subsidised phones. Carriers now simply mask the full price of phones into monthy payments. Isnt it the fact that Android phones are more heavily subsidised and thus cheaper and therefore should sell more? I bought my Note 4 three months after launch at around 60% of launch price. To this day I cant find any discounts on the iPhone 6.

You will probably find the S6 more easily subsidised than the iPhone 6.

You got a note 4 60% off launch price? I'm going to call bs on that.the note 4 in the USA is the same exact price as what it was when first launched.

Show your slip of your 60% discounted note 4

Used note 4s are going from 450-550 on eBay and you got a brand new note 4 for less than that?

also your being subsidised with the full price masked in payments.they are trading the cost up front for hoping it takes you 3 years of service to pay for the phone while keeping you as a customer.

Im also not familiar with your plans but I'm sure if you get one of those phones you can't just simply walk away 2 months after you get it without some huge termination fee or paying them full retail price of the phone.

 

[Technarchy]

If Apple launched in fewer nations with the 6S than it did with the 6 last year, it would in all likelihood move less product.

Samsung I believe stated that the device would initially only be released in 20 markets, the S5 was released in 125 and managed 11 million its first month. The S6/S6E did 10 million units in about the same time frame with a vastly smaller number of markets, and supply constraints with the S6E.

That's actually pretty impressive, not disastrous.

 

[jamezr]

I got your context. I'm just saying that by keeping it a closed platform running on a few select devices, they will never surpass in marketshare a platform that runs on every other device out there. It's just impossible. It's like expecting Macs to capture 90% marketshare of the PC industry too. It'll never happen.

And it doesn't matter because their sales are doing well regardless. It's a disingenuous argument to use marketshare to determine whether Apple is successful or not when clearly no one can deny their (continued) success in both industries.

I think you missed the whole context in this thread. Look at the thread title.
The thread was only started as troll bait by an Apple fan. That person never posts in this section unless they can find something negative to say.
Pitting the S6 sales up against the iphone is stupid and irrelevant. The iphone is the single bestselling phone model in the world. It is the only phone model running IOS. Look at the market share and sales of Apple to Samsung. Not even close. Look at I7guy and Truefan......same thing. They are only here in these threads to say something negative about Android or Samsung.

----------

Jameszr tries to play devils advocate on many threads. Unfortunately it comes off as more flip/flops than a house of pancakes.

Market share does matter for the brand. However in this case android has to earn its keep for companies using this o/s. To googles credit they have invented a system where a reasonable phone can be had for a decent price. To Apple credit they have invented a walled garden ecosystem. Google is giving away on o/s allowing manufactures to be virtually hardware only. Where Apple is a software/hardware company, even though it outsources.

The strategic direction for both companies are different and should be

.

LOL...you make no sense....

Why should it be different? I mean they are different. But SHOULD be different. Explain.....

The strategic direction for both companies are different and should be

 

[GadgetSN]

You got a note 4 60% off launch price? I'm going to call bs on that.the note 4 in the USA is the same exact price as what it was when first launched.

Show your slip of your 60% discounted note 4

Used note 4s are going from 450-550 on eBay and you got a brand new note 4 for less than that?

also your being subsidised with the full price masked in payments.they are trading the cost up front for hoping it takes you 3 years of service to pay for the phone while keeping you as a customer.

Im also not familiar with your plans but I'm sure if you get one of those phones you can't just simply walk away 2 months after you get it without some huge termination fee or paying them full retail price of the phone.

No mate,if you read it properly I got 40% off. I dont need to show you a slip. Just goggle any uk mobile comparison site and you will see that the Note 4 is cheap as chips relative to any iphone 6. Read the Note 4 thread where I already stated I turned down the offer of free phone with a £25 per month contract for 24m from my carrier (unlimited everything but 3g not 4g data). I later got a better offer.

 

[Savor]

Several factors -

G6 edge is the more popular variant for the hipsters but it seems Samsung shot itself in the foot by not having as many produced as the regular S6 and simply cannibalizing each other's sales.

Cost. Again, S6 edge is the more popular variant which can attract Apple design fans but also more expensive than even the Note 4 which doesn't seem to suffer from removing key features like removable battery and sd slot.

Great design, great camera, BUT WEAKER battery life than their predecessors.

The S6 edge features is also more of gimmick that only enhances the look but not the overall functions.

Samsung went with the Apple-way of style over substance which left many hardcore fans angry at them by not including factors like removable battery and sd slot. Many simply defected and moved onto something else.

The Note series might really be Samsung's real flagship series and should surpass the S line in popularity as that gets released closer to Holidays with updated specs compared to a flagship that gets released in April.

Apple's iPhone 6 Plus was their answer to phablets. A segment Samsung once dominated in and seems to shrink by the day since "5.3-"5.5 is becoming more of a norm than a niche.

Xiaomi and several Chinese OEM's have also eaten their share of the marketshare pie in the lower segment which Samsung once dominated in.

Market saturation... Eventually after awhile, the mass population doesn't want to keep spending on upgrades they don't really need. A time of redundancy when people are becoming more content with their current phones. Look how slowly people update their laptops and tablets. Smartphones sans postpaid is getting there too. You can only do much with a smartphone and OS when they all start feeling the same to use and become stale.



I am a little surprised by it failing but NOT really either. Too many factors and too many very good phones out there can be bought for a cheaper price and contract-free. Timing also plays a factor. Not everyone wants to drive a Ferrari just like not everyone needs the fastest SoC and features they don't really need during a season when spending money isn't a priority. Just like Android reaching near 85% last year and now slowly dipping to 79%, perhaps Samsung has also peaked already in sales. Once you go up, you must come down.

 

[Technarchy]

G6 edge is the more popular variant for the hipsters

I'd love to see you produce one iota of evidence to back up this claim.

but it seems Samsung shot itself in the foot by not having as many produced as the regular S6 and simply cannibalizing each other's sales.

You realize this scenario is a net gain for overall S6 sales

The S6 edge features is also more of gimmick that only enhances the look but not the overall functions.

Didn't you just say the S6 Edge had greater demand, so this is irrelevant obviously.

Samsung went with the Apple-way of style over substance which left many hardcore fans angry at them by not including factors like removable battery and sd slot. Many simply defected and moved onto something else.

Defected to what? Where is your proof, or are you just posting nonsense. Style over substance? Built in wireless charging, gorilla glass 4, 14nm SOC, awesome front and back cameras, super fast charge times, best screen in the business; that's all style and no substance?

The Note series might really be Samsung's real flagship series and should surpass the S line in popularity as that gets released closer to Holidays with updated specs compared to a flagship that gets released in April.

I dumped my Note 4 phablet and I've never going back. It's also never going surpass the Galaxy S series as a mainstream product for several reasons.

Apple's iPhone 6 Plus was their answer to phablets. A segment Samsung once dominated in and seems to shrink by the day since "5.3-"5.5 is becoming more of a norm than a niche.

I guess that explains all the iPhones I see that aren't the 6+

Xiaomi and several Chinese OEM's have also eaten their share of the marketshare pie in the lower segment which Samsung once dominated in.

Bottom feeding brands with no global reach.

Market saturation... Eventually after awhile, the mass population doesn't want to keep spending on upgrades they don't really need.

That's actually true. The smartphone market will slow, and that slowing down will show on Samsung first and most visibly because they are a biggest smartphone seller in the world with the largest catalog of products.

I am a little surprised by it failing but NOT really either.

Failure? Expalin the math of this failure.

20 nations = 10 million units in a month
125 nations = 10 million units in a month

Look at those numbers and make sure you understand what that means.

Too many factors and too many very good phones out there can be bought for a cheaper price and contract-free.

Really? Name one that matches the S6 specs 1:1?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

If Apple launched in fewer nations with the 6S than it did with the 6 last year, it would in all likelihood move less product.

Samsung I believe stated that the device would initially only be released in 20 markets, the S5 was released in 125 and managed 11 million its first month. The S6/S6E did 10 million units in about the same time frame with a vastly smaller number of markets, and supply constraints with the S6E.

That's actually pretty impressive, not disastrous.

That is impressive when it's put like that but could it be that Samsung released the S6 in the 20 countries that have historically returned them the most sales? I don't know this just putting it out there. I could think of a list of countries that I would expect a top line smartphone to sell in and all the major markets would be covered. Out of the 20 it could contain the US, China, Korea, Japan, Malaysia, Germany, France, Spain, Russia, United Kingdom, Brazil, Australia etc etc.

I'm not suggesting the S6 hasn't done well on this basis, but the 20 countries could sound more drastic than it actually is if they are known to be profitable from past releases. Countries like Kenya, Greenland, lceland, Iraq lol etc etc may not have included in the first stage because the impact was known to have been less. Again I don't know any facts here just a thought.

 

[Vegastouch]

I think it's relative to past sales years though. I don't think a bigger ip3 would sell over 70 million in its first quarter. It's pretty remarkable that the iPhone has outsold itself pretty much every year, a feat not many can accomplish. It's not because of just the marketing either, it shows that it's a quality product that consumers enjoy and with overall great customer support. I'm sure at some point it could happen Apple have either a flat or decline in sales but for now it's shown its a quality product.

Like said earlier the s5 was a sales disappointment, one that illustrated by the market as not being good enough. Hence the revamped s6. And looking at articles it seems sales are up.

And they still would of they went back to plastic. No doubt in my mind about it.
People will say Apple did it right going back to plastic and it would still outsell itself. People were buying them by the millions when the screen was still dinky.

As for the GS5 , and im only speaking for me, i didnt get one because it wasnt much of an upgrade and i wanted to get a Nexus 5 to counter that.

See the thing is, i dont just get the next one if it doesnt have much more to offer and we can get something else using Android. You cant do that with Apple because they have very lmited phones using iOS. Get a bigger one or an older one with a small screen and thats it.

Choice is good and thats why ONE Android brand phone maker will never sell as many iPhones do because there are too many to choose from. The fact that Samsung has sold as many as they do with there being that choice is pretty remarkable.

 

[skratch77]

No mate,if you read it properly I got 40% off. I dont need to show you a slip. Just goggle any uk mobile comparison site and you will see that the Note 4 is cheap as chips relative to any iphone 6. Read the Note 4 thread where I already stated I turned down the offer of free phone with a £25 per month contract for 24m from my carrier (unlimited everything but 3g not 4g data). I later got a better offer.

You said in your own words UK don't have subsidised plans and the note4 is 60% cheaper and you bought one for 60% off full retail price 3 months after it came out

These are your own words.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The Note 4 was a free upgrade on my tariff with no upfront fee at my last change.

 

[skratch77]

The Note 4 was a free upgrade on my tariff with no upfront fee at my last change.

Im sure you had to sign a commitment contract for that though

 

[touchstoned]

I really think we are now seeing the consequences of the design disaster that was the galaxy S4, and even to a lesser degree S5. Both were very very mediocre phones that copied the style of their predecessors, much like the HTC M8 copies the M7. Problem was, that style (the galaxy S3) was dated in april 2014 when they released the S5.

Now, samsung has finally built a phone that looks good and has a better camera than the iphone, and they can't capitalize because people just expect the same thing from them: Mediocrity.


The S6 was not a design mistake, it was just a dollar short and a day late. If it had been released in 2014 it might have garnered some attention, today the only feature the S6 really offers over the iPhone 6 is a gimmicky bent screen and a better camera. Samsung is on the right track with the S6 though. I hope they continue.

All samsung needs to do to succeed, is to accept that its brand (Samsung Electronics) will never compete with the iPhone in price. People do not want to spend $950 on a phone and then be laughed at for it, which is what I do when somebody shows me a 128GB S6 Edge. Then I apologize for laughing because that is rude

 

[skratch77]

I really think we are now seeing the consequences of the design disaster that was the galaxy S4, and even to a lesser degree S5. Both were very very mediocre phones that copied the style of their predecessors, much like the HTC M8 copies the M7. Problem was, that style (the galaxy S3) was dated in april 2014 when they released the S5.

Now, samsung has finally built a phone that looks good and has a better camera than the iphone, and they can't capitalize because people just expect the same thing from them: Mediocrity.


The S6 was not a design mistake, it was just a dollar short and a day late. If it had been released in 2014 it might have garnered some attention, today the only feature the S6 really offers over the iPhone 6 is a gimmicky bent screen and a better camera. Samsung is on the right track with the S6 though. I hope they continue.

All samsung needs to do to succeed, is to accept that its brand (Samsung Electronics) will never compete with the iPhone in price. People do not want to spend $950 on a phone and then be laughed at for it, which is what I do when somebody shows me a 128GB S6 Edge. Then I apologize for laughing because that is rude ;p

OK bud but just so you know I laughed at you reading this post!

Ps why don't you wait for samsungs official financial report on sales on the gs6 vs a click bait forbs story with zero credibility behind it.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Im sure you had to sign a commitment contract for that though

Oh yeah for 24 months. I don't know anybody who pays £600 for a phone in one whack. It feels like a massive waste of money like that whereas a contract absorbs the cost even if it's more expensive in the long term. The good thing these days is you can almost tell a carrier how much you want to pay per month. As long as the phone cost is covered they will fight over themselves for your business. It's s but different with iPhones however.