To a lot of developers : I'm tired of subscribing to your app!

[mj_]

I'm tired of subscriptions. I may be getting old but I'm tired of paying monthly for something that goes away if I stop paying it.

This right here is why I try to avoid subscriptions whenever possible. Paying for a streaming service is one thing - rarely do I watch the same same movie or TV show twice, and even if I wanted to it wouldn't be the end of me if I can't. But keeping my data, my files, and my contents in a death grip forcing me to continue paying until all eternity is a whole different story. I wouldn't mind subscriptions if, for example, after a year or two of subscribing I would be allowed to keep the status quo should I decide to stop paying. But losing all access if I decide to stop paying after X years and spending hundreds of my hard-earned dollars on something is completely and utterly unacceptable.

Unfortunately, the entire third party software ecosystem on both Windows and macOS seems to be moving away from perpetual one-time license purchase models towards an annual subscription service model, and avoiding them is getting increasingly harder. I'm already paying for Adobe's Photoshop & Lightroom for myself and for Microsoft's Office 365 Personal for my wife (she needs the OneDrive storage which is not available without a full Office 365 subscription), and I'm afraid that won't be the end of it

 

[revmacian]

The argument that developers need $ to survive and promise to put out more features has backfired I think. I know apps that switched to subscription haven't outputted more (imo). If anything it begs complacency because there's always a stream of income so no need to push new features to generate revenue.

Complacency.. yep, you can see that coming.

Also, I have an app made by a developer that is no longer in business. The app still works. If it had been a subscription.. well, I wouldn’t be able to use that app today.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I make an app. From 2016-2017 it was a pay once product. You purchased it and received updates for a year. After that year, the app still worked but no more updates.

This was successful but it wasn't so profitable that I should quit my day job working as a developer for somebody else to pursue this product full time.

In early 2018 I decided to switch to a subscription model. Now users could subscribe monthly or yearly. At the end of their subscription period (if they cancelled) the product would still continue to function but in a diminished capacity.

This enabled home users and hobbyist to use the app but professionals, businesses and enterprises would need to pay to make the application fully featured for their use cases.

This transformed the business entirely. The revenue stream generated by subscriptions exploded. Remember in the past you had to buy the software up-front and you would receive a year of updates. That meant there was some sticker shock due to a high price.

But when I introduced subscriptions it enabled users to feel more comfortable about trying the service out knowing it only cost the price of a coffee. And once they used the app and saw how useful it was, many of them stayed as subscribers.

My yearly churn rate for monthly subscribers as of today is 8.44% Meaning for every 1,000 new users who subscribe I retain 916 of them after their first year using the product.

Changing to a subscription model allowed me to quit my job working for someone else and work on this full time. The consistent revenue the subscriptions generate allow me to more easily access credit and plan for the future. My wife and I are lucky enough to own a house and a car already with no mortgages or car payments but if we did being able to show the bank a consistent income would help immensely with obtaining those things.

At the end of the day making good apps that people want to spend money on is not easy. If it was, every person on this planet would be a developer. You're paying someone else to do all the hard work for you and I think throwing them a few bucks for an app you use very often or that enriches your work or life is money well spent.

As some other posters have said, software has been undervalued for a very long time. Often due to companies subsidising one software product they make with another. Skewing peoples perception of a software products worth due to them going after market share to stifle competition in many cases.

Just my perspective as a developer. I know for sure some of you will disagree with what I've said and that's okay I just ask that you keep your replies to me civil, I am a human being after all.

Thank you for this perspective. For apps I use most I love using the tip jar feature. I’d love to know what your app is - pm if you prefer to keep it private or no worries if you prefer not to say.

It is my own experience that I'm FAR more willing to purchase an app to try it vs signing up for a subscription, but I'm not a youngster anymore (34). I've spent thousands on apps but I avoid subscriptions if I can help it.

This is absolutely shocking to me: "My yearly churn rate for monthly subscribers as of today is 8.44% Meaning for every 1,000 new users who subscribe I retain 916 of them after their first year using the product." How interesting.

 

[dumastudetto]

Complacency.. yep, you can see that coming.

Also, I have an app made by a developer that is no longer in business. The app still works. If it had been a subscription.. well, I wouldn’t be able to use that app today.

If it was subscription, possibly that developer would still be in business.

Subscriptions are the only sustainable way to unlock the true potential of the devices we all hold and love every minute of every day of every year. If you are happy to spend $4000 on a new MacBook Pro or an iMac Pro, you can afford to drop developers some bucks every month to give you the best and most enriching experiences.

Consumers will have to make choices about which apps are most valuable to them. The days of loading your Macs, iPhones and iPads app with hundreds of high-quality apps for $1 a time are well and truly over.
[automerge]1580703415[/automerge]

Thank you for this perspective. For apps I use most I love using the tip jar feature. I’d love to know what your app is - pm if you prefer to keep it private or no worries if you prefer not to say.

It is my own experience that I'm FAR more willing to purchase an app to try it vs signing up for a subscription, but I'm not a youngster anymore (34). I've spent thousands on apps but I avoid subscriptions if I can help it.

This is absolutely shocking to me: "My yearly churn rate for monthly subscribers as of today is 8.44% Meaning for every 1,000 new users who subscribe I retain 916 of them after their first year using the product." How interesting.

It's how subscriptions broadly perform. I think pay TV operators see churn in the same kind of range of around 8%. Once you get people signed up and paying, and beyond resistance, a lot of them will stay around for a very long time. This is why businesses and apps will fight like mad to get you signed up and paying. They know once they've got you in the net, the chances are high you'll be sending them money every month for a considerable period of time.

 

[revmacian]

If it was subscription, possibly that developer would still be in business.

That particular developer got tired of writing software. I offered to do all of the graphics on a volunteer basis but that wasn't enough help. Imagine being his customer and the app suddenly stopped working because you were paying a subscription.

If you are happy to spend $4000 on a new MacBook Pro or an iMac Pro, you can afford to drop developers some bucks every month to give you the best and most enriching experiences.

You may be rich, but I'm not. It takes me a year and a half to save for an Apple notebook and then I can only afford the base model. There is no way I would consider paying $4000 for a computer. One developer may think subscriptions are worthwhile. But, from a user perspective, having to pay a dozen subscriptions is a difficult pill to swallow.. all that money adds up. Not all users are rich enough to be able to afford a subscription for every app they use.. and you know the trend will go that way if this continues.

It's how subscriptions broadly perform. I think pay TV operators see churn in the same kind of range of around 8%. Once you get people signed up and paying, and beyond resistance, a lot of them will stay around for a very long time. This is why businesses and apps will fight like mad to get you signed up and paying. They know once they've got you in the net, the chances are high you'll be sending them money every month for a considerable period of time.

Or users will get tired of constant payments without a comparable rise in app value and either go elsewhere or learn to write their own apps.

 

[ruka.snow]

As a developer I would like to inform you that we can't survive on big sale spikes on the launch of a new version all the time and then the trickle of sales afterwards. We want to have a stable customer base that grows and we can continue to develop new features for, instead of launching another new version with features that could have been in the prior version, just to get that bump in sales to survive.

 

[zhenya]

You're using software bugs to justify a subscription model?! Surely you jest. Double the price of a one-time cost.. I don't mind, I'll pay it.. really.

How long should bug fixes be provided for free? Be specific.

Double the price of $1 or even $5 or $10 simply isn’t enough revenue to make that kind of model sustainable long-term.

 

[revmacian]

As a developer I would like to inform you that we can't survive on big sale spikes on the launch of a new version all the time and then the trickle of sales afterwards. We want to have a stable customer base that grows and we can continue to develop new features for, instead of launching another new version with features that could have been in the prior version, just to get that bump in sales to survive.

Software development isn't the only line of work in the world. When I was developing apps I had a part-time job waiting tables and it was good money. Income is income.. if you think manual labor is beneath you then you've got bigger problems than trying to figure out a payment method.

Don't make users have to change their lives just because something you chose in the past no longer works today. It's not our fault. Never allow your actions to negatively impact others.

 

[doobydoooby]

My biggest gripe with the shift to subscription models is when your app automatically updates so you have no choice but to give in or throw the app away. This is just so so wrong. Fantastical has replaced a perfectly good calendar app with one where I now can’t even invite someone to an entry in my calendar unless I pay monthly. So they have deliberately broken functionality that worked before just to drive people to a subscription model. And you can’t simply keep the old working version. I guess this must somehow be legal since it’s going on but morally, intellectually... it’s bankrupt.

 

[revmacian]

My biggest gripe with the shift to subscription models is when your app automatically updates so you have no choice but to give in or throw the app away. This is just so so wrong. Fantastical has replaced a perfectly good calendar app with one where I now can’t even invite someone to an entry in my calendar unless I pay monthly. So they have deliberately broken functionality that worked before just to drive people to a subscription model. And you can’t simply keep the old working version. I guess this must somehow be legal since it’s going on but morally, intellectually... it’s bankrupt.

I've been blacklisting companies that do this type of thing. I'm the tech person in my family and circle of friends, so they all come to me when they need advice on which apps to buy.. and I am steering them clear of any company that does subscriptions pricing. And, you're absolutely right.. this practice is morally bankrupt.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

There could be another model to perpetual subscriptions, especially regarding software that may otherwise have a high 'sticker' price. On Splice for example there are many rent-to-buy models, with 0% interest, as long as you keep paying your subscriptions until the full price of the product then you fully own it at the end with no further ongoing subscriptions. They understand a large part of their target audience with so many bedroom producers who are often young and don't have that much money. So they still sell expensive software, but make it 'affordable'.

I think wholesale dismissal of a subscription model is foolish. There is nothing wrong with it when it is done well.

 

[sracer]

As a developer I would like to inform you that we can't survive on big sale spikes on the launch of a new version all the time and then the trickle of sales afterwards. We want to have a stable customer base that grows and we can continue to develop new features for, instead of launching another new version with features that could have been in the prior version, just to get that bump in sales to survive.

Your inability to survive with a non-subscription model may be a reflection of your approach to software design and development rather than something inherent in that model.

I don't blame you. But a subscription model will only postpone the inevitable. You've exchanged the periodic challenge of producing batched updates worth the price, for the steady and relentless challenge of proving your app's worth on a monthly basis. Go 3-6 months without significant updates and watch those subscriptions drop... and when they drop, they'll crater.

There is nothing stopping you from producing mini updates every quarter and charging an incremental upgrade fee (that would be equivalent to what you charge for a subscription for that same period). It's not about a steady income stream but about a captive audience.

Add to that, from a development perspective, not all improvements and enhancements can be made in small incremental steps. Those enhancements are on a longer development arc than would be acceptable in a subscription model.

 

[j569mxr]

what's the difference between an app for which you pay $12 once and have to upgrade the next year when the OS changes and it stops working, vs the app you pay $1/mo for and it keeps working when OS 14 comes around?
to me, if you're paying $1/mo and decide after 3 mos it's no longer the app you want, you're out $3 instead of $12.

 

[BigMcGuire]

what's the difference between an app for which you pay $12 once and have to upgrade the next year when the OS changes and it stops working, vs the app you pay $1/mo for and it keeps working when OS 14 comes around?
to me, if you're paying $1/mo and decide after 3 mos it's no longer the app you want, you're out $3 instead of $12.

You don’t have to upgrade. I could use that $12 app for years if I choose. Vs $24, $48 for 2, 3 years of subscription. I feel obligated to use it to make it worth my money. A good number of paid apps have a free version or a free trial. That and very few sub apps are $1 a month, if there were more $1 a month subs I think people would be complaining less.

 

[zhenya]

I don't think the subscription model is going away for two reasons - one - developers need the reliable revenue stream - and two - this being the more important issue - is that it allows them to do away with a fragmented user base with users on a wide variety of different OS versions, using a wide variety of app versions - and trying to support and keep up on bug and compatibility fixes while also developing new features. The reality is that software works best when the entire user base is on a single version of software. All major software vendors are moving to this model.

The other thing that is not appreciated is that mobile apps have been historically under-priced relative to their value. This was required to get the ecosystem off the ground - but mobile has proven its value - apps are worth more money than people have historically paid. Additionally, the cost of software engineers has skyrocketed in the past decade. Developers of any skill level can make 6 figures in the US. Good ones are often mid-6 figures. And the best are in the 7 figures. That has a direct impact on the cost of creating and maintaining software.

I do think one possibility is that Apple eventually offers an "app subscription" service similar to the News and Arcade model. For a flat rate you'll get access to a large number of apps that are otherwise subscription only. The big players will be able to opt out of this, but many of the small ones will end up feeling like they have to get on board.

 

[RecentlyConverted]

For me, Apple should allow trial period for apps. This would allow developers to make complex apps, charge high, but fair prices for these apps, and allow users to test the app, before committing largish sums to apps that may not meet their needs. At these higher prices the apps should be maintained for bugs and new OS releases, but new features could be chargeable. I won't subscribe to apps, but will pay a fair price to buy them.

 

[MisterSavage]

For me, Apple should allow trial period for apps. This would allow developers to make complex apps, charge high, but fair prices for these apps, and allow users to test the app, before committing largish sums to apps that may not meet their needs. At these higher prices the apps should be maintained for bugs and new OS releases, but new features could be chargeable. I won't subscribe to apps, but will pay a fair price to buy them.

I really wish we could do that also. There's some apps I've been curious about but there's no way I would pay full price for without trying them out.

 

[zhenya]

For me, Apple should allow trial period for apps. This would allow developers to make complex apps, charge high, but fair prices for these apps, and allow users to test the app, before committing largish sums to apps that may not meet their needs. At these higher prices the apps should be maintained for bugs and new OS releases, but new features could be chargeable. I won't subscribe to apps, but will pay a fair price to buy them.

This is an area where a subscription model actually works in your favor. For a small monthly fee, you can try out the app. You are free to cancel at any time.

For all the reasons outlined earlier, lump sum, one-time payment apps are largely a thing of the past.

 

[stjames70]

There is a "deadly" trend among developers: subscribe, subscribe !!
We cannot afford to pay your monthly rent!
I understand you need to live, make an app and I will be happy to pay for it because you put hours of work on it.
But once.
Are you going to add more value to your app? Then you will have n. 2 and if we find it's valuable we'll buy it.
What are you going to give me every month?! Who knows
You are going to take my money first, and fix bugs that shouldn't have been there.
Please, become less greedy 💰💰💰💰 and I will be your customer.

Seriously, then don't subscribe. Subscriptions work because there is a demand for the service and there are people willing to pay for that service.

Free society bro. If you don't want to be a slave to a subscription, then don't subscribe. IF the subscription is a bad deal, people will walk away, just like you. The market will decide that.

 

[s66]

There are so many software alternatives! If you don't like the subscription model of a particular piece of software, just use something else.

I avoid all subscription software whenever I possibly can. There's just a few big ones that have no good enough alternative unfortunately. So as a developer: I'd suggest to you start to make really good "pay-to-own" alternatives to the likes of Lightroom etc.

 

[ignatius345]

Are you a developer? From your answer it seems.
You need to come out with different ideas, for example I know at least one app that I like because they are very crystal clear and honest in what they offer.

This app is free with no time limits. A 12 month premium feature pack can be purchased in the app, which unlocks all premium features, as well as new features added during the 12 months following the purchase. Customers can then purchase a new pack, or keep using the app with the features they have already purchased. This sales model falls somewhere between freemium and a non-renewing subscription, and we think it is the right balance for Mac/iOS apps going forward.

I love it

Agenda for Mac and iOS has this same model. You pay for a year of premium features as they're released, and when that year's over, you get to keep what you bought. Totally fair.

"Subscriptions" should be called what they actually are: software rental.

Ulysses went subscription a few years ago, and honestly they've done jack-*** with it since then. They've noodled with a few things, added some rather superfluous features -- but nothing that would add up to more than one big release under a normal non-rental software model. The fact is, it's a writing program and it had a very mature set of features when they pulled the rental move.

So, what, you're a software developer and you want to live forever off the one piece of software you wrote? Please.

WRITE ANOTHER PIECE OF SOFTWARE AND SELL THAT.

If the Ulysses people wrote a calendar app, or a mail app, or -- I don't know, an app for mind mapping or outlining... I'd be all over it. But instead they want a yearly donation so they can keep noodling around forever on the same ****ing app, whether it needs new features or not. It's infuriating.

 

[katbel]

Agenda for Mac and iOS has this same model. You pay for a year of premium features as they're released, and when that year's over, you get to keep what you bought. Totally fair.

"Subscriptions" should be called what they actually are: software rental.

Exactly: Agenda
Yes renting an app, what I'm not looking for since I already bought the condo 😆

 

[2ilent8cho]

I do not like subscriptions for software, BUT i do not think it is the developers fault. It is all Apple's fault, they now release a new iOS and MacOS every year, it is extremely unnecessary especially on the MacOS side, which then means some apps break and then have to be fixed.

The old model of staying on one version of MacOS and one version of the App for years is difficult now.

 

[Partron22]

Yes MacOS updates are far too frequent and bug-ridden these days.
When was the last time Apple could honestly call an OS "Rock Solid"? About 12 years or so?

 

[maflynn]

Yes MacOS updates are far too frequent and bug-ridden these days.
When was the last time Apple could honestly call an OS "Rock Solid"? About 12 years or so?

I wished they'd return to the ever 2 or 3 years where they rolled out a complete but solid upgrade. Alas I think those days are long gone