I'm glad someone is enjoying ventura! Debian has never looked more appealing to me!
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Very sad: Ventura is a steaming hot mess of 💩
- Thread starter ylluminate
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I'm glad someone is enjoying ventura! Debian has never looked more appealing to me!
My guess is . . .
[From an earlier post] No one expects perfection, it is unreasonable, however what I have experienced specifically with Ventura and the gap to what was experienced with Monterey is beyond a coincidental "teething" situation - there is something very deeply problematic in Ventura to account for the problems. These are not run of the mill bugs from new features. Many code that supported old hardware was removed from Ventura which is a big difference from Monterey and that appears to me to be a significant contributing factor to these problems.
[And] From past experience this resembles cases when switching to a different group of maintenance developers that don't know the functionality and limit their delivery to what is explicitly documented in specifications (... if it isn't in the specs then it is out of scope of responsibility).
I could be wrong, but the unreliability of MacOS 13.x has an uncanny reflection of unintended code-gutting and supply chain rationalizations.
Thus my biggest concern is if this unreliable MacOS 13.x will be what all Intel Macs will have to live with going forward.
If that is the case, I will probably stick with Monterey for Intel Macs. I am already stuck with High Sierra for non-64bit paid-license apps.
The next or next-next generation of MacOS will probably be fixed but it will probably support only Apple Silicon.
[From an earlier post] No one expects perfection, it is unreasonable, however what I have experienced specifically with Ventura and the gap to what was experienced with Monterey is beyond a coincidental "teething" situation - there is something very deeply problematic in Ventura to account for the problems. These are not run of the mill bugs from new features. Many code that supported old hardware was removed from Ventura which is a big difference from Monterey and that appears to me to be a significant contributing factor to these problems.
[And] From past experience this resembles cases when switching to a different group of maintenance developers that don't know the functionality and limit their delivery to what is explicitly documented in specifications (... if it isn't in the specs then it is out of scope of responsibility).
I could be wrong, but the unreliability of MacOS 13.x has an uncanny reflection of unintended code-gutting and supply chain rationalizations.
Thus my biggest concern is if this unreliable MacOS 13.x will be what all Intel Macs will have to live with going forward.
If that is the case, I will probably stick with Monterey for Intel Macs. I am already stuck with High Sierra for non-64bit paid-license apps.
The next or next-next generation of MacOS will probably be fixed but it will probably support only Apple Silicon.
maybe, probably, 'could be wrong'. hmmm.
meanwhile, what specifically are the problems you're experiencing on ventura? hard to be helpful if we don't know what exactly is happening.
Cya! Ventura has been amazing for me. There's always Windows 11.
Do you buy toilet paper and expect it to last a lifetime too?
Tech is like TP, it doesn't last long and you always have to replace it. The period and price are different but the concept is the same. Nothing lasts forever.
NEVER install a new MacOS as soon as it comes out. I usually wait 6-8 months so most of the initial problems are resolved...
you left out the "I" in front of 'NEVER'... as many people on these forums run the betas, and/or like to dive in when a new OS first drops.
also, OS development is never a straight line forward, as some things get fixed as new bugs appear. there's no 'everything's fine at 6-8 months in'... just ask anyone here who runs the betas!
Confirmed on another thread.
I'm now completely in the mess of poo camp. My hands are starting to smell from using this OS. Apple didn't bother to automate a simple regression test of restoring from TimeMachine. I mean, there aren't many things to do with TimeMachine; it's not like restoring a file is an edge case.
Ventura was awful on my Mac Studio Max with many bizarre and sometimes random bugs occurring. I decided to bite the bullet and did a complete wipe of the computer and started with a fresh install of ventura.
I didn’t copy over or restore any settings or apps. I installed everything as new. It was less painful than I expected because of all the cloud stuff now, but the improvement has been dramatic.
I didn’t copy over or restore any settings or apps. I installed everything as new. It was less painful than I expected because of all the cloud stuff now, but the improvement has been dramatic.
I'm glad it's better for you. But to be clear, reinstalling the operating system is pointless (with Ventura and subsequent) as it read only and can never be corrupted. Erase All Content and Settings would have accomplished the same thing, as your problem was somewhere in user space.
I'm sure that even with future releases of MacOS there will be cases of catastrophe generalized to universal condemnation.
it's this way with every OS release; people complaining how 'apple has fallen off', 'worst OS ever'... a lot of the sky is falling posts. my theory is... with the next OS, people who hated ventura will be remembering how good it was... 🤣
I have a huge music library carefully curated first with iTunes and now with the Apple Music app. For me it's a breeze to use. Sorry, nothing to hate on for me. One thing I don't care for is the integration of Apple Music into the search function, unless I'm missing something how do I search locally?
As far as I can tell, I don’t think you can limit the search to just the songs on your machine. You can only limit the search to Your Library or Apple Music.
My main issue above all else is the app feels monumentally slow to use, especially in Apple Music pages. Sometimes Apple Music pages don't load at all so you have to press the back button and try loading the page again. Contrast that with Tidal and everything feels near instant. It's funny because Tidal is an Electron app and the running joke for so many years was that Electron apps are sluggish memory hogs but Apple managed to screw up Music so bad that almost every Electron music app I've tried performs much better than AM.
If I click on something in Tidal it loads instantly. Want to play a song? The second you hit the play button the songs starts. Their CDN must be better optimized than Apple Music. I think Apple Music APIs are slower in general because loading anything (playlist data, albums, Listen Now page) has a much greater delay vs. Tidal. The AM animations don't help either, they need to remove ALL animations on desktop because they contribute to a slower experience.
Overall the app feels like it was made in 2015 by mediocre devs and has not been updated since. There's no consistency and everything is slow. Too many legacy carryover features from iTunes that are useful but haven't been updated for the modern UX they're pushing.
Some things I need in the Music app currently missing from macOS 12's Music app (and some missing from the platform entirely):
- The ability to create playlist folders
- Sort playlists by last updated
- Group playlists by creator type (stuff I created, stuff I added from Apple Music [Top 25 for United States], and Automated [New Mix, etc.]) in the sidebar and enable sorting within those groups (last updated, by title, etc.)
- Ability to show album art thumbnails in the "Songs" library menu, similar to AM on iOS
- Universal back button that takes me to the last thing I was looking at
- Better unification of my uploaded library and Apple Music songs. I can't click on an artist's name in the Songs menu and instantly be taken to their profile on Apple Music. Overall they need to optimize the navigation for parity with Spotify/Tidal and find a tasteful way to integrate your personal music in there alongside Apple Music content. Right now the app can't decide if it's Apple Music or iTunes.
- Show me related artists and albums on artist and album profile pages
- Detailed song credits menu, interactive so I can see all the work from a particular engineer or cellist
- Synced lyrics view (missing from desktop, available on iOS)
- Lyric translations
- A list of suggested tracks similar to the one I'm playing right now
- Sort albums by added date
- Artist bios visible when playing a song, should not be under 3 submenus and I should not have to explicitly visit the artist's page and lose my context in the process
I haven’t had any bugs that I can think of but maybe I’ve been lucky. I absolutely hate the system settings imported from iPad but other than that it’s fine.
I didn’t install Ventura till 13.1 so maybe I avoided some of the earlier problems
Fair enough. Most of these features never occurred to me. Though to be honest I prefer minimalism over bloatware. The automated bits of Apple Music service (and clouds in general) are very annoying to me. Like many of us, I'm stuck in my ways and prefer to do as I have always done, which to say manual curation. A good deal of the music I listen to - especially ethnic and alternative - is so obscure I wouldn't expect it to show up on any automated radar. I have a friend, a brilliant computer engineer, who advised: Macs work fine as long as you do things Apple's way.
Honestly i don't know why Apple has such good reputation because their apps and services are generally worse than they should be. Google assistant > Siri. Google Maps is better Gmail sorts my mail to primary and social and promotion. Apple mail just throws everything in the inbox. Yes i realize Google is invasive but honestly I've given up on the privacy front. Just make my stuff work
The music app doesn't support FLAC, which, fine, Apple gotta have their own lossless codec, but i'd think they would at least offer to convert my FLAC files for me when importing my library, or at least tell me hey i see you have a bunch of FLACs, well we don't support them sorry not sorry. Nope it just skips over them silently leaving me wondering why I'm missing so much stuff. Typical Apple arrogance
I can't use the messages app just because it's so weirdly spaced and proportioned it kinda freaks me out. I thought i would use the podcast app because I'm not a power user at all, but then I found out it does not let you search episodes. There's minimal viable product, and then there's below minimal.
Ok so maybe Apple wants to be benevolent and helps out third party developer. In that case, let me uninstall the app. Years ago i complimented Apple for not loading their phones with all their apps. Oops, that's over with. People give Microsoft crap for spamming windows, but most of the apps are just shortcuts. They take 16kb on your drive and you can just delete them. Apple's spam not only take up space on your precious SSD which they give you so little of, you can't even rid them from your launchpad. Double insult
The only two Apple apps i use are settings and finder. (Not going to rehash all the settings arguments.) I'm having trouble with finder not finding things that i can see are right there (irony!). Aside from that it is leaving so much on the table feature wise. The color tags on the left are nice, but they don't work for folders on external drives. You can tag them all you like; they don't just show up. Preview with the space bar is a great idea. Why can't I preview archives and see what's in them? There doesn't seem to be a way to tell the built in archive utility to unzip to somewhere else. Also preview should recognize common files like .py and display them as text. Who knows, maybe even do syntax highlighting!
The file progress dialog is laughably uninformative. Don't professionals use Macs? Aren't they constantly buying and testing gears and would like to know how fast transfers are going? Windows gives you a graph so you know the speed over time. Don't give me "less than a minute" which keeps going and going. There should also be an unattended mode where i can specify what i want to do on errors/conflicts and walk away from the computer. Finder is inseparable from the shell. It needs more attention
Apple stuff would be better if i were all in on the ecosystem and did things the way they want me to, but I'm not and don't. But even if i were and did, i would still have plenty of beef
The music app doesn't support FLAC, which, fine, Apple gotta have their own lossless codec, but i'd think they would at least offer to convert my FLAC files for me when importing my library, or at least tell me hey i see you have a bunch of FLACs, well we don't support them sorry not sorry. Nope it just skips over them silently leaving me wondering why I'm missing so much stuff. Typical Apple arrogance
I can't use the messages app just because it's so weirdly spaced and proportioned it kinda freaks me out. I thought i would use the podcast app because I'm not a power user at all, but then I found out it does not let you search episodes. There's minimal viable product, and then there's below minimal.
Ok so maybe Apple wants to be benevolent and helps out third party developer. In that case, let me uninstall the app. Years ago i complimented Apple for not loading their phones with all their apps. Oops, that's over with. People give Microsoft crap for spamming windows, but most of the apps are just shortcuts. They take 16kb on your drive and you can just delete them. Apple's spam not only take up space on your precious SSD which they give you so little of, you can't even rid them from your launchpad. Double insult
The only two Apple apps i use are settings and finder. (Not going to rehash all the settings arguments.) I'm having trouble with finder not finding things that i can see are right there (irony!). Aside from that it is leaving so much on the table feature wise. The color tags on the left are nice, but they don't work for folders on external drives. You can tag them all you like; they don't just show up. Preview with the space bar is a great idea. Why can't I preview archives and see what's in them? There doesn't seem to be a way to tell the built in archive utility to unzip to somewhere else. Also preview should recognize common files like .py and display them as text. Who knows, maybe even do syntax highlighting!
The file progress dialog is laughably uninformative. Don't professionals use Macs? Aren't they constantly buying and testing gears and would like to know how fast transfers are going? Windows gives you a graph so you know the speed over time. Don't give me "less than a minute" which keeps going and going. There should also be an unattended mode where i can specify what i want to do on errors/conflicts and walk away from the computer. Finder is inseparable from the shell. It needs more attention
Apple stuff would be better if i were all in on the ecosystem and did things the way they want me to, but I'm not and don't. But even if i were and did, i would still have plenty of beef
i don't understand these sort-of posts.
siri is fine (for me; anyway i only use it on my iphone). agreed, google maps is great... i use it.. in safari. apple mail has all sorts of options for sorting mail... you just have to set up what you need.
i personally haven't seen a FLAC file in about 15 years, but am sure there are mac players. or you can convert them to something else (like mp3s) with an app like XLD (a great freebie).
i live on messages on my mac (& my phone), and have never found the 'spacing' to be weird, not sure what that means; screenshot would help.
i earn my living on my mac(s), and my main apps (mostly logic pro, but also final cut, affinity photo, rapidweaver) all work beautifully on ventura (to be fair, both of my macs are M2 models).
but (of course), people like to complain, especially when things aren't exactly as they want them to be. here, i get my work done (& to be fair, respond far-too-often to these posts) 🙄🤣
messages app, macbook air:
Erase contents and all settings is the process I used to obtain a clean install and restarting from an “out of box” experience.
You can change the archive expansion path by setting it in the "archive utility" settings. If you want to expand an archive somewhere else then just move it to where you want the files to be expanded to beforehand.
Check out Glance on github to add the quicklook capabilities you were looking for plus more:
GitHub - chamburr/glance: 🔎 All-in-one Quick Look plugin
🔎 All-in-one Quick Look plugin. Contribute to chamburr/glance development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
There is so much you could to make Apple Music a better experience — like a simple edit button to bulk delete song from the Up-Next-List, real Shuffle, much better search functionality, assimilated digital experience to album artwork, more human-curated playlists (like way back from the early days of their radio shows). But the thing that really irks me is how AM messes up compilationsand rare tracks. Any old CD I synced with AM has turned into a hot garbage of different albums because if they do not have that album available they Frankenstein it together, so, say, some old Jazz compilations or aback-to-the-mine-Albums now are basically 10 individual songs, impossible to be enjoyed as one album at all. And 12-Inch-remixed do not have the original artwork I added manually but now feature superugly «Best of the …»-covers because they are pulled from some compilation. How hard would it have been to respect my album artwork and songs when syncing the libraries?
Apart from that, diverse iCloud sync problems, songs vanishing from the platform because of labels pulling their releases and so on, AM still is a dream if you love music and I wish we had similar All-in-one-streaming for books and movies/series instead of the insular XYZ+ system evolving these days. The spectrum, back catalogue, availability, technical innovation (atmos, 3D) are a gift and I am thankful for it and not having Universal+, Sony+ and so on.
Apart from that, diverse iCloud sync problems, songs vanishing from the platform because of labels pulling their releases and so on, AM still is a dream if you love music and I wish we had similar All-in-one-streaming for books and movies/series instead of the insular XYZ+ system evolving these days. The spectrum, back catalogue, availability, technical innovation (atmos, 3D) are a gift and I am thankful for it and not having Universal+, Sony+ and so on.
in my opinion, macOS has been neglected and maintained by the wrong people, at least regarding the user experience / usability side.
it feels like an OS that has been mindblowingly awesome.... 20 years ago.
but instead of improving and modernizing the core functionality, they were seemingly more busy putting more emojis into iOS and port features of that no one asked for onto Mac.
i recently tried Linux for the first time in my life, and my distro actually happened to be HEAVILY inspired by macOS.
i originally just wanted to try it since i was planning to dabble more with the command line side and didn't want to worry if i broke things on a perfectly set up system, not expecting it to actually be much improved and superior to macOS in most areas.
so my main wishlist now is for native Apple Silicon support in most Linux distros to become a common thing, so i can just easily switch to Linux when Apple decides to drop support after just a couple of years, despite the machine itself still being absolutely fine enough for many duties.
only thing that would prevent me doing this right out of the box would be that i'd be losing some music productivity apps (plugins mainly) that i really like.
otherwise, Linux (GNOME desktop in my case) >>> macOS as far as i'm concerned, despite the latter still being good... just not awesome like the former is for me.
it feels like an OS that has been mindblowingly awesome.... 20 years ago.
but instead of improving and modernizing the core functionality, they were seemingly more busy putting more emojis into iOS and port features of that no one asked for onto Mac.
i recently tried Linux for the first time in my life, and my distro actually happened to be HEAVILY inspired by macOS.
i originally just wanted to try it since i was planning to dabble more with the command line side and didn't want to worry if i broke things on a perfectly set up system, not expecting it to actually be much improved and superior to macOS in most areas.
so my main wishlist now is for native Apple Silicon support in most Linux distros to become a common thing, so i can just easily switch to Linux when Apple decides to drop support after just a couple of years, despite the machine itself still being absolutely fine enough for many duties.
only thing that would prevent me doing this right out of the box would be that i'd be losing some music productivity apps (plugins mainly) that i really like.
otherwise, Linux (GNOME desktop in my case) >>> macOS as far as i'm concerned, despite the latter still being good... just not awesome like the former is for me.