Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

I have windshield protection film on both my TM3 and TMY. I have seen it work on newly paved sections of my highways were they did 1 lane at a time.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I have windshield protection film on both my TM3 and TMY. I have seen it work on newly paved sections of my highways were they did 1 lane at a time.

Once the vehicle warranty expires you should be able to take care of minor maintenance such as:
Wiper-blade replacement, windshield washer fluids, cabin air filter replacement, and a few other things. However, even if your vehicle has a manufacturer's warranty, you have to pay for any maintenance or problems that were caused by the vehicle's operator. Pilot's error?😆

It is a good idea to have windshield/windows insurance coverage if these are expensive to replace. We have a $250.00 deductible insurance, both the Corolla and Silverado's windshields average a small amount over $250.00. The Tundra windshield costs less than $400.00 (I had it replaced a few months ago), and paid $250.00. The insurance e paid for the remainder. Over here the tire manufacturer and the tire shop provide a warranty that takes care of punctures, tire defects, and so on for a period of three years/36,000 miles. I can take the vehicle for tire pressure and inflation checks, TPMS registrations, etc., free of charge. But the better quality tires can be very expensive. The tire replacement and work, just for tires to be mounted on the existing rims, and balance cost me around $1,600 USD. The existing wheels (Toyota TRD rims) on this truck cost about $500.00+ each.

 

[Apple fanboy]

a. Most of what you have told above is true,. An EV has fewer moving parts than an ICE automobile, but it still has thousands of non-moving parts attached to each other (the battery).
b. Not clutch to burnout is true. But some EV's and ICE automobiles have transmissions that have drive belts that wear out. Also, while EV's don't have the usual fully automatic geared transmissions found in most ICE automobiles, some still gave transmissions with reduction gears that are lubricated with oil. Look at some of the EV drive units posted at "youtube."
c. Mostly true. But in general all depends on how the driver uses the brakes. For example, when driving in slippery conditions the use of the brakes is one of the most dangerous actions to take. I use the brakes when I need to stop at the light, or an emergency, and seldom slow down the vehicle by the use of the brakes. What I learned to do was to accelerate and reduce speed with the gas pedal as much as possible, to coast to the light (before stopping), to slow down before arriving to a sharp turn (may have to use the brakes sometimes), to maintain speed with the gas pedal into the turn, and then accelerate by the end of the turn (no brake-use in a turn). My wife does use the brakes most of the time, but even so this year I had a mechanic replace the pads and rotors of her 2010 RAV4 V6 (that's after 13 years of driving it). None of our vehicles, except for hers needed new pads and rotors replaced
d. True.
e. That's is mostly true. All depends on being able to maintain your vehicle after the warranty is over. During the warranty one can take care of basic maintenance such as oil and filter replacement and things like that. But in some places, including some US cities, one has to take the car to a mechanic. I only take our (wife and I) automobiles to a shop for major repairs (like the brake work mentioned above). I do take a Toyota Tundra for tire installation and replacements because the tires are quite heavy compared to my 2012 Corolla. I also took it to a shop a few weeks ago to have a new "topper" installed (a bed cover made of fiberglass and painted to match the truck's paint color). It weights 180 lbs.

After retiring from work two times (two different organizations), and my wife once, we don't drive very much at all (we have four vehicles (2012 Corolla, 2010 RAV4, 2001 Silverado truck, and a 2013 Tundra truck). We haven't had any major repairs performed in our vehicles (other than told above). I take care of all the manor maintenance:
-Oil filter and oil replacement, cabin air filter, wiper blades and things like that once per year.
-Engine air filter once every two years.
-Tire replacement: Silverado three years ago, and the Tundra this year.
-Both the Corolla and RAV 4 have (each) two sets of tires/wheels. One for winter driving (Blizzak tires), and another for the rest of the year. All these tires are near 13 years old, but are in nearly perfect shape.

Even if you change your own oil and filters etc, I’m still saving by not having to buy oil and filters. Plus their is the environmental concern of replacing oil and filters every year (or whatever interval is recommended).
I’m surprised you have 13 year old tyres. I had to replace Mrs AFB tyres a couple of years ago. Not because they had worn out (not with her ultra low mileage!), but because they had started to crack. Tyres shouldn’t really do that.
We don’t get enough snow here to need winter tyres.
We used to get more when I was a kid, but I guess sometimes must have happened to make things warmer on the planet? Can’t think what that would have been!

 

[cyb3rdud3]

My post above is quite long, so I will add the following: In the interior of Alaska crushed rock (gravel) is spread on the roads to aid with traction. This gravel often causes windshield breakage as it is thrown toward the windshield by other vehicles in front. I have had several windshields replaced through the years. This type of work is done at one of the local shops, but is not very expensive. Even if not using the vehicle insurance a new windshield costs from $300.00 to $400.00 USD.

It all depends on the vehicle. If I was living out in those conditions I'd have a fairly basic vehicle as the glass isn't the the cost, it's the recalibration of various sensory systems. And even out here I've had stone hit radar/lidar units, calibration thereafter is the killer, not the glass or other parts.

 

[Audentia]

A new ICE automobile has similar electrical components as an EV (other than traction motors and things like that). For example, a hybrid automobile such as a Prius, and even the F1 hybrid automobile incorporate motors and internal combustion engines. In a regular ICE automobile, electrical components tend to fail sooner than the engine and other mechanical components. One can have any vehicle, regardless of which powertrain type that can have thousands of drive miles. Then very old automobiles can be found in the collectors car market that have been driven very little. The average life span of the 12 DVC battery is about 4 years, but the warranty is about 2 years/36,000 miles. The battery in my wife's 2010 RAV4 V6 lasted a little over ten years. I replaced it last month, and was told that instead of the former 5-year NAPA warranty, now it is two years

While an ICE automobile has an engine and transmission that contain lots of moving parts, EV's also have lots of moving parts which are the same as ICE automobiles: brake components such as rotors, pads, wheel bearings, steering linkages, drive units, wiper and door servos or motors, AC/Heat blower motors, and some have wiper motors at the headlights, or headlights that follow the direction of steering during night-driving. Some EV battery-temperature management systems include electric pumps. The drive units have driveshafts connected to the wheels (same as ICE automobiles). The drive unit has several moving parts, bearings, and reduction gears. Some drive units use oils to lubricate and cool the internal parts (similar to aromatic transmission). The most difficult and expensive component in an EV is its battery. The average high-capacity EV battery has a few thousand cells, and each cell in a module is connected to each other with a metallic link (conductor) at both the positive and negative ends of each cell.

Electric-Vehicle Battery Basics

Electric-car batteries are similar to, but far from the same as, a basic AA or AAA battery.

www.caranddriver.com

There are numerous videos of EV drive units at "youtube."

Not really sure your point. An EV still has significantly less parts and can therefore last much longer, although of course both are complex machines which can wear out in various ways.
A modern EV's drivetrain can last 500k to 1M miles. Batteries last 200k miles. An ICE's drivetrain will only go 100k to 200k miles before needing major work, not to mention all the oil changes along the way. Both have brakes, but regen braking makes EV brakes last 2x longer. It's a big jump. And when you consider next gen EVs, such as the cybertruck, use drive by wire, 48v low voltage and 800v high voltage systems, that means even less parts, (much simpler wiring harnesses, less wires to begin with, no more steering linkage etc.) the differences become even more pronounced.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Not really sure your point. An EV still has significantly less parts and can therefore last much longer, although of course both are complex machines which can wear out in various ways.
A modern EV's drivetrain can last 500k to 1M miles. Batteries last 200k miles. An ICE's drivetrain will only go 100k to 200k miles before needing major work, not to mention all the oil changes along the way. Both have brakes, but regen braking makes EV brakes last 2x longer. It's a big jump. And when you consider next gen EVs, such as the cybertruck, use drive by wire, 48v low voltage and 800v high voltage systems, that means even less parts, (much simpler wiring harnesses, less wires to begin with, no more steering linkage etc.) the differences become even more pronounced.

What kind of major work does an ICE drivetrain require at 100K or even 200K miles? Don't forget just because you don't use your brakes as much they still require maintenance, plenty of information regarding pads that disintegrate and still need changing, brake fluid still needs changing, so you may have a slight advantage in discs, not a big deal really. And no steering isn't simplified, plenty of ICE vehicles with drive-by-wire systems, but that still goes to a steering rack etc.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my EV, but posts like these I really dislike as it paints the wrong picture and is just silly.

Even oil changes aren't the expense and big advantage as some make them out to be. Unless you drive something exotic and big engined (most people just don't) there isn't a big cost, nor chore, in them either.

 

[Audentia]

What kind of major work does an ICE drivetrain require at 100K or even 200K miles? Don't forget just because you don't use your brakes as much they still require maintenance, plenty of information regarding pads that disintegrate and still need changing, brake fluid still needs changing, so you may have a slight advantage in discs, not a big deal really. And no steering isn't simplified, plenty of ICE vehicles with drive-by-wire systems, but that still goes to a steering rack etc.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my EV, but posts like these I really dislike as it paints the wrong picture and is just silly.

Even oil changes aren't the expense and big advantage as some make them out to be. Unless you drive something exotic and big engined (most people just don't) there isn't a big cost, nor chore, in them either.

transmissions, mostly
I can also google "common maintenance for BMW* Honda* etc. at 1xx miles and there will be different things, but a decent list of things to be sure, even on the Japanese cars. at 2xx the list gets much more expensive. And I don't know many ICE's that last 300k, of course there are some, usually by enthusiasts who take good care of them, which I applaud, thats definitely cool, but we're talking about the general limitation of the technology here.

No, you are mistaken, there are no production vehicles with (EDIT: I meant Steer by wire) drive by wire systems other than the cybertruck (afaik, send me a link if there is one) you may be thinking electric steering assist or break/gas pedals by wire but those are different.

I would say posts like yours I also dislike because they paint a wrong picture which minimizes the differences as if they were small, when in fact they all add up to being quite large.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Not really sure your point. An EV still has significantly less parts and can therefore last much longer, although of course both are complex machines which can wear out in various ways.
A modern EV's drivetrain can last 500k to 1M miles. Batteries last 200k miles. An ICE's drivetrain will only go 100k to 200k miles before needing major work, not to mention all the oil changes along the way. Both have brakes, but regen braking makes EV brakes last 2x longer. It's a big jump. And when you consider next gen EVs, such as the cybertruck, use drive by wire, 48v low voltage and 800v high voltage systems, that means even less parts, (much simpler wiring harnesses, less wires to begin with, no more steering linkage etc.) the differences become even more pronounced.

I do like the braking in an EV and the lack of need to apply them I have to say, makes journeys a lot more pleasant. People do seem scared of them and the perceived costs to replace parts though. The perception is you will have a £20k bill for a new battery or it will catch fire. So much misinformation across social media and a fast growing scaremongering campaign. We never buy cars with high mileage and one of our cars is now a company car so much less of a problem.

My ICE car requires a dual mass flywheel and clutch change at 100k along with a timing belt. Costs about £1.5k. I doubt i’ll be keeping the car that long though and will get rid of it beforehand, so someone else gets that bill. I do about 10k miles a year and I have about 6 years of driving left before I get to that sort of mileage.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Not really sure your point. An EV still has significantly less parts and can therefore last much longer, although of course both are complex machines which can wear out in various ways.
A modern EV's drivetrain can last 500k to 1M miles. Batteries last 200k miles. An ICE's drivetrain will only go 100k to 200k miles before needing major work, not to mention all the oil changes along the way. Both have brakes, but regen braking makes EV brakes last 2x longer. It's a big jump. And when you consider next gen EVs, such as the cybertruck, use drive by wire, 48v low voltage and 800v high voltage systems, that means even less parts, (much simpler wiring harnesses, less wires to begin with, no more steering linkage etc.) the differences become even more pronounced.

The point is the same point it always is.
First you will hardly be able to drive on the motorways because of all the EV’s that will have run out of battery power.
Then there will be all the smoke from the EV’s catching fire.
Then it’s the environmental cost of producing EV’s (as you probably are aware petrol is pumped straight out of the ground ready to use, no chemicals are used to purify it or anything!). Then it’s the battery will need replacing every other year.
Then the maintenance costs are exactly the same!

It’s so sad really that people get sucked in by what the petroleum companies are sponsoring on the internet. The car industry is changing.
Some people say EV’s are the future. Personally I’d say it’s the now.

Like every other EV driver I’ve ever spoken to, I’m never going back to yesterday’s technology. I’ll never buy another ICE car.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

transmissions, mostly

Only if they aren't well maintained; towing without appropriate cooling and mechanical appreciation. No oil changes, well, flushes really. And sure, there will be at times a differential or power transfer unit rebuild where metal goes against metal. No biggie unless one drives something exotic.

I can also google "common maintenance for BMW* Honda* etc. at 1xx miles and there will be different things, but a decent list of things to be sure, even on the Japanese cars. at 2xx the list gets much more expensive. And I don't know many ICE's that last 300k, of course there are some, usually by enthusiasts who take good care of them, which I applaud, thats definitely cool, but we're talking about the general limitation of the technology here.

When you discuss metal on metal, yes, sure, but the costs aren't huge. Especially not in the context of the purchase cost and mileage. So when comparing TCO of ownership, ICE still very much wins.

No, you are mistaken, there are no production vehicles with drive by wire systems other than the cybertruck (afaik, send me a link if there is one) you may be thinking electric steering assist or break/gas pedals by wire but those are different.

How many cars have you had to replace the steering column on That is the part that is different in the cybertruck, and others are doing that as well. That is not a high maintenance item, the rest of the steering rack is still a steering rack Its more of a build convenience and benefit opposed to anything else.

Cybertruck is interesting, will be even more interesting if it actually gets road legal status in many other countries.

I would say posts like yours I also dislike because they paint a wrong picture which minimizes the differences as if they were small, when in fact they all add up to being quite large.

We have to agree to disagree, other than commonly a traditional gearbox/transmission (still replaced by a more suitable alternative), and the lack of an ICE, the rest is still the same.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The point is the same point it always is.
First you will hardly be able to drive on the motorways because of all the EV’s that will have run out of battery power.
Then there will be all the smoke from the EV’s catching fire.
Then it’s the environmental cost of producing EV’s (as you probably are aware petrol is pumped straight out of the ground ready to use, no chemicals are used to purify it or anything!). Then it’s the battery will need replacing every other year.
Then the maintenance costs are exactly the same!

It’s so sad really that people get sucked in by what the petroleum companies are sponsoring on the internet. The car industry is changing.
Some people say EV’s are the future. Personally I’d say it’s the now.

Like every other EV driver I’ve ever spoken to, I’m never going back to yesterday’s technology. I’ll never buy another ICE car.

I don't want to go back, but I don't think it is moving forward as quickly as I'd like. There are still some pretty big gaps and costs to overcome. And some considerable differences, I'm a big fan of one pedal driving, but sadly, it isn't a feature on all new EVs. My wife's Polestar does it perfectly with nice adjustments, and that is one huge beneficial experience in why we like EV so much.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The point is the same point it always is.
First you will hardly be able to drive on the motorways because of all the EV’s that will have run out of battery power.
Then there will be all the smoke from the EV’s catching fire.
Then it’s the environmental cost of producing EV’s (as you probably are aware petrol is pumped straight out of the ground ready to use, no chemicals are used to purify it or anything!). Then it’s the battery will need replacing every other year.
Then the maintenance costs are exactly the same!

It’s so sad really that people get sucked in by what the petroleum companies are sponsoring on the internet. The car industry is changing.
Some people say EV’s are the future. Personally I’d say it’s the now.

Like every other EV driver I’ve ever spoken to, I’m never going back to yesterday’s technology. I’ll never buy another ICE car.

My personal favourite is the accusations I see people write where they claim our car insurance is going up because of EV’s being written off over the slightest bump. Apparently insurance companies are so scared the batteries have been damaged, they just write the car off lol. Explaining to people the batteries are usually in the centre of the car and it would have to be a serious CAT-S for that to be the case just falls on deaf ears. I got annoyed with my Dad a couple of weeks ago for sharing some complete tripe about EV’s. He always asks about ours and seems to hope for some damning response about how impractical they are.

My next car will probably be an EV, it makes sense. Unless I treat myself to an RS6 or M3 Touring to enjoy one last ICE car lol. The mileage I do and the low cost to run an EV is the sensible option though.

 

[Apple fanboy]

My personal favourite is the accusations I see people write where they claim our car insurance is going up because of EV’s being written off over the slightest bump. Apparently insurance companies are so scared the batteries have been damaged, they just write the car off lol. Explaining to people the batteries are usually in the centre of the car and it would have to be a serious CAT-S for that to be the case just falls on deaf ears. I got annoyed with my Dad a couple of weeks ago for sharing some complete tripe about EV’s. He always asks about ours and seems to hope for some damning response about how impractical they are.

My next car will probably be an EV, it makes sense. Unless I treat myself to an RS6 or M3 Touring to enjoy one last ICE car lol. The mileage I do and the low cost to run an EV is the sensible option though.

lol. Your Dad sounds like mine!
Fun game I play. Tell me when did you last see an EV pulled over waiting for a rescue service to tow it home. Now when did you last see an ICE vehicle doing the same? Yet people say EV’s are less reliable.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

lol. Your Dad sounds like mine!
Fun game I play. Tell me when did you last see an EV pulled over waiting for a rescue service to tow it home. Now when did you last see an ICE vehicle doing the same? Yet people say EV’s are less reliable.

Hmm the moment there are as many EV's on the road as there are ICE's based cars you may have a point. Until such time, it really doesn't mean anything.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Glass insurance is state dependent. I am in NY, NY requires insurers cover glass, when I was in NJ, it didn’t and at the time none covered it.

Every single ICE I’ve owned required major service around 100k (in some cases earlier). From timing belts/chain guides, coolant system replacement and flush (also water pump), fuel injector cleaning, coil pack replacement, spark plugs (most newer plugs have a 100k lifespan, on my Ram that was a $1,200 job with 16 plugs), fuel filter/pump/regulator, transmission service, power steering fluid flush (my Ram was electronic so no fluid), transfer case (if 4WD), differential fluid change, that’s most of what came to mind.

You don’t have to follow manufacturers service recommendations, but if you want another 100k miles out of it, you should.

Tesla recommends a 2-3 year service interval for their brakes, especially if you live in a winter state. I had both of mine serviced, with both just under 30k miles the brakes are new (Tesla’s regen is AWESOME). Their general service tends to be cheaper than other manufacturers, at least here in the NY area (high labor costs).

 

[I7guy]

Hmm the moment there are as many EV's on the road as there are ICE's based cars you may have a point. Until such time, it really doesn't mean anything.

With EVs the biggest risk, as I can tell, for dying on the side of the road is due to some failure within the electrical system. Low voltage battery, fuse that type of thing. I think for newer EVs it's going to be rare to have an actual mechanical failure although I envision a brake line could rupture as an example.

 

[JT2002TJ]

With EVs the biggest risk, as I can tell, for dying on the side of the road is due to some failure within the electrical system. Low voltage battery, fuse that type of thing. I think for newer EVs it's going to be rare to have an actual mechanical failure although I envision a brake line could rupture as an example.

I agree with the low voltage failures (at least with older EVs). I preemptively changed both my Tesla’s 12V lead acid batteries (newer Teslas us 16v batteries that should in theory last the life of the vehicle) most people recommend every 3-4 years. Tesla charged me $85 parts and labor each, that is CRAZY cheap…

 

[cyb3rdud3]

With EVs the biggest risk, as I can tell, for dying on the side of the road is due to some failure within the electrical system. Low voltage battery, fuse that type of thing. I think for newer EVs it's going to be rare to have an actual mechanical failure although I envision a brake line could rupture as an example.

Yup, 12v battery failure can brick an EV, although good EVs should have a battery management system to top it up. But basically the same as now with ICE. But besides that, modern day cars often don't have a spare, so that is a breakdown as well when you get a puncture and the goo can doesn't work. Many of the EV's are relatively new compared to their ICE counterparts, but they will suffer their fair share of sticky calipers (braking hasn't changed). And as so many are connected you get TCAM style related issues when a cell phone network doesn't work.

And naturally when the masses start using it, you'll also get more of those running out of fuel. For some it is hard to comprehend that a SOC of say 5% when warm could mean 0% when cold. And so on.

Considering they are vehicle, humans use them, they will have issues. Some issues are the same, other issues are different.

 

[4sallypat]

Not really sure your point. An EV still has significantly less parts and can therefore last much longer, although of course both are complex machines which can wear out in various ways.
A modern EV's drivetrain can last 500k to 1M miles. Batteries last 200k miles. ......

This I agree with !

Our 2 EVs have almost no brake pad wear due to regen - one has over 60,000 miles and the brake pads at last maintenance was at 5mm remaining.

As for the batteries, they have very long warranties - 8yrs and 10 years on them.

Costs for any maintenance has been almost zero except for: tires, wiper blades, and fluids to top off.

 

[I7guy]

lol. Your Dad sounds like mine!
Fun game I play. Tell me when did you last see an EV pulled over waiting for a rescue service to tow it home. Now when did you last see an ICE vehicle doing the same? Yet people say EV’s are less reliable.

I had an Uber driver who knew somebody who was employed by a towing company who said the his entire day is literally rescuing stranded EVs.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I had an Uber driver who knew somebody who was employed by a towing company who said the his entire day is literally rescuing stranded EVs.

I find that highly unlikely.

 

[nebo1ss]

I have no plans to even consider an EV at the moment for two reasons. The range is not good enough for my life style at this point and also too many horror stories about the cost of replacement of the battery. I am not even convinced about the green issue. There are many charge points in the UK that are actually running on diesel generators.

 

[I7guy]

I find that highly unlikely.

Yes, I was being sardonic. All mechanical things break down but hopefully EVs turn out to be more reliable due to less moving parts.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yes, I was being sardonic. All mechanical things break down but hopefully EVs turn out to be more reliable due to less moving parts.

Indeed. Sorry missed that part.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I have no plans to even consider an EV at the moment for two reasons. The range is not good enough for my life style at this point and also too many horror stories about the cost of replacement of the battery. I am not even convinced about the green issue. There are many charge points in the UK that are actually running on diesel generators.

We were talking about this exact thing earlier and the social scaremongering campaign about EV’s needing replacement batteries, it’s not even a common occurrence. The diesel generator stories are to do with councils using them to power chargers for commercial use. You’d be hard pressed to find a public charger with a generator next to it going flat out. It only takes a bandwagon of people to spread tripe for it to stick I think.

The Luton airport fire was a good one for the anti EV crowd too. When it was determined the fire started via a diesel car, that didn’t stop the posts claiming it was an EV and it still doesn’t even today.