Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[4sallypat]

....
And right, once you add in the tax credit, that brings down the MSRP if you think about what you’re really spending. So there’s that.

The BIG question is whether we will benefit from the recent passage of the infrastructure bill.

I don't know if we will be able to take the $12K tax credit on certain Lightning trims as there is a cap...

At the very least, if I get the Lightning by the end of 2022, I stand a good chance of getting $7500 against my taxes.

After next year (2023), that $7500 may get cut to half or quarter or none.

And the new tax credit also depends on when Ford delivers plus how & when IRS implements the new tax credit...

 

[44267547]

The BIG question is whether we will benefit from the recent passage of the infrastructure bill.

I don't know if we will be able to take the $12K tax credit on certain Lightning trims as there is a cap...

At the very least, if I get the Lightning by the end of 2022, I stand a good chance of getting $7500 against my taxes.

After next year (2023), that $7500 may get cut to half or quarter or none.

And the new tax credit also depends on when Ford delivers plus how & when IRS implements the new tax credit...

At this point, the $7500 tax credit is merely just a bonus. If it’s not available by the time my wife receives her RAV4 or whenever I receive the Cybertruck or the Lightning, then I’m fine with that.

The main driver for me, fuel is out of control with prices, and I already have sports cars that are expensive enough using 93 octane only, and I’m not willing to spend $160 a week on another V8 that averages 15MPG, when I can achieve similar performance with what Ford is proposing and allegedly the Cybertruck at some point.

Someone called me a ‘beta tester’ earlier today when I mentioned I reserved a Lightning, and I told him “I’ll be a beta tester saving thousands in fuel/maintenance costs, while you’re spending over $600 a month in fuel.”

 

[pshufd]

Someone called me a ‘beta tester’ earlier today when I mentioned I reserved a Lightning, and I told him “I’ll be a beta tester saving thousands in fuel/maintenance costs, while you’re spending over $600 a month in fuel.”

I spend $60/month for gasoline (just checked last credit card statement). Who spends $600/month for gasoline? Lots of fuel-efficient vehicles out there and you can always drive in a more fuel-efficient way.

 

[Cave Man]

I have one more gasoline vehicle to buy (truck to replace my 2004 Nissan Frontier 4WD LWB), but other than that only electric. Eyeing the ID.4 at the moment.

 

[4sallypat]

....
Someone called me a ‘beta tester’ earlier today when I mentioned I reserved a Lightning, and I told him “I’ll be a beta tester saving thousands in fuel/maintenance costs, while you’re spending over $600 a month in fuel.”

Love it!

Yes, I too am looking forward to becoming a "beta tester, guinea pig EV data contributor, first year model, new design EV, green vehicle tree hugger, etc..." so that I don't have to pay $5.50 / gallon fuel for my cars !

 

[JT2002TJ]

Just a warning to people ordering the first edition vehicles. If there are issue with your vehicle, and there are a shortage of parts, you may find yourself without a vehicle for months at a time.

It happened to a lot of RAM owners who had issues with their air ride system (pre-pandemic). Dealers were not providing loaners, and the warranty only covered rentals for 30 days. A lot of owners had a lot of issues. When the system failed you couldn't drive the truck (went into limp mode since the vehicle was all the way down).

Hopefully by the time you take delivery this will not be an issue, and there are no common flaws that are unique parts. Or if they are, hopefully they are parts you can continue to use the vehicle as you wait on parts.

 

[pshufd]

One thing about Foreign carmakers is that they do sometimes test vehicles in other countries before bringing them to the United States.

I've purchased two first-gen Toyotas and they were both fine.

 

[4sallypat]

Just a warning to people ordering the first edition vehicles. If there are issue with your vehicle, and there are a shortage of parts, you may find yourself without a vehicle for months at a time.

It happened to a lot of RAM owners who had issues with their air ride system (pre-pandemic). Dealers were not providing loaners, and the warranty only covered rentals for 30 days. A lot of owners had a lot of issues. When the system failed you couldn't drive the truck (went into limp mode since the vehicle was all the way down).

Hopefully by the time you take delivery this will not be an issue, and there are no common flaws that are unique parts. Or if they are, hopefully they are parts you can continue to use the vehicle as you wait on parts.

Yes, very familiar with first year cars.

Had leased a 2016 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE the very first year it came out and had it in the service dept for almost half of the 3 year lease.

Many times the parts were in the UK and had to be flown in. Once the wait time was over 2 months due to the telematics satellite parts out of stock in the UK.

Luckily I had a loaner each time to drive (Range Rover, Jaguar, full size Discovery).

At the end of lease, I turned her back in with very low miles and got a refund check from Chase/Land Rover auto lease...

The Ford Lightning will be leased and at the end if it is a great buy, I'll buy her out or sell it at a profit.

 

[pshufd]

Yes, very familiar with first year cars.

Had leased a 2016 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE the very first year it came out and had it in the service dept for almost half of the 3 year lease.

Many times the parts were in the UK and had to be flown in. Once the wait time was over 2 months due to the telematics satellite parts out of stock in the UK.

Luckily I had a loaner each time to drive (Range Rover, Jaguar, full size Discovery).

At the end of lease, I turned her back in with very low miles and got a refund check from Chase/Land Rover auto lease...

I had an Audi Quattro with a production run of 900 units worldwide and getting parts was a real pain and they often cost ten times what they would on volume cars. Since then, I make it a point to only buy cars with a production run of at least 100,000 units per year.

 

[diamond.g]

I had an Audi Quattro with a production run of 900 units worldwide and getting parts was a real pain and they often cost ten times what they would on volume cars. Since then, I make it a point to only buy cars with a production run of at least 100,000 units per year.

Are there any EVs that actually meet that production run rate requirement?

 

[pshufd]

Are there any EVs that actually meet that production run rate requirement?

There isn't a breakout by model but it looks certain that Tesla will ship at least 800,000 cars for 2021 and so at least one model should have at least 200,000 deliveries. At least one of their models will already have had at least 100,000 deliveries through Q3. At least one of their models would have had at least 100,000 deliveries in 2020 as well.

 

[diamond.g]

There isn't a breakout by model but it looks certain that Tesla will ship at least 800,000 cars for 2021 and so at least one model should have at least 200,000 deliveries. At least one of their models will already have had at least 100,000 deliveries through Q3. At least one of their models would have had at least 100,000 deliveries in 2020 as well.


View attachment 1908873

I really meant to say besides Tesla, lol.

 

[pshufd]

I really meant to say besides Tesla, lol.

I think that the Hyundai Ioniq is probably the highest excluding Tesla for EVs only as the Ioniq also has Hybird versions and it is over 100K if you include those. I like vehicles with high production numbers as it means more options for maintainability down the road. I think that it also tends to keep down maintenance costs.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I would not personally buy a Tesla. It's just not an appealing prospect to support Mr. Musk. I feel he's far too unstable, and there is the question of long term maintenance issues, and what happens to the old batteries.

I did own a Toyota Prius, and it was an interesting ownership experience. The hybrid technology is all about moderation, and the best way to use it seemed to be to overuse the cruise control system. I did average over 40MPG on a trip upstate. My previous vehicle would be sucking fumes of a 16 gallon tank by the time I arrived, and the Prius wasn't even on half. I spent a week driving around, and had enough gas in the tank to make it back, and last the next week too. But the trip involved watching things pass outside the car at a slower speed. I noticed things that I had never seen before, so it was interesting. Toyota's placement of the Prius in the market was rather muted. There was no way to connect a bike rack to the vehicle. The inside was roomy, but a bike barely fit inside, and if luggage was needed to, it was a very tight fit, unless there wasn't a passenger. And if the passenger also had a bike, that was a deal breaker. No roof racks, no roof luggage boxes, no way to help make it fit my life.

I did like the car. It was quiet. The iPod attachment invalidated the satellite radio, which the dealer didn't realize, which was surprising. It could have supported more tech, but it was a pretty good experience, aside from the cartage opportunities.

We need a 'Volkswagen' type program, likely with major government support/ownership to get a truly usable solution for a workable electric vehicle for 'the rest of us'.

I just hope the electric/hybrid vehicle market doesn't look too closely at the e-bike market. One vendor in particular has positioned their entire product line for people that can afford stratospheric cost of ownership. The prices are stunning. I use the price of my most expensive bike I've purchased as a yardstick, and their bikes are double, and not, the cost of that bike. YIKES!!! It's like they are marketing their 'bikes' to those hovering in the rarefied air near the Karman Line.


I'm still waiting for news of an official Apple Car. Maybe that would make them the droid we are looking for, to make electric/hybrid cars more achievable for the average person.

 

[pshufd]

I would not personally buy a Tesla. It's just not an appealing prospect to support Mr. Musk. I feel he's far too unstable, and there is the question of long term maintenance issues, and what happens to the old batteries.

I did own a Toyota Prius, and it was an interesting ownership experience. The hybrid technology is all about moderation, and the best way to use it seemed to be to overuse the cruise control system. I did average over 40MPG on a trip upstate. My previous vehicle would be sucking fumes of a 16 gallon tank by the time I arrived, and the Prius wasn't even on half. I spent a week driving around, and had enough gas in the tank to make it back, and last the next week too. But the trip involved watching things pass outside the car at a slower speed. I noticed things that I had never seen before, so it was interesting. Toyota's placement of the Prius in the market was rather muted. There was no way to connect a bike rack to the vehicle. The inside was roomy, but a bike barely fit inside, and if luggage was needed to, it was a very tight fit, unless there wasn't a passenger. And if the passenger also had a bike, that was a deal breaker. No roof racks, no roof luggage boxes, no way to help make it fit my life.

I did like the car. It was quiet. The iPod attachment invalidated the satellite radio, which the dealer didn't realize, which was surprising. It could have supported more tech, but it was a pretty good experience, aside from the cartage opportunities.

We need a 'Volkswagen' type program, likely with major government support/ownership to get a truly usable solution for a workable electric vehicle for 'the rest of us'.

I just hope the electric/hybrid vehicle market doesn't look too closely at the e-bike market. One vendor in particular has positioned their entire product line for people that can afford stratospheric cost of ownership. The prices are stunning. I use the price of my most expensive bike I've purchased as a yardstick, and their bikes are double, and not, the cost of that bike. YIKES!!! It's like they are marketing their 'bikes' to those hovering in the rarefied air near the Karman Line.


I'm still waiting for news of an official Apple Car. Maybe that would make them the droid we are looking for, to make electric/hybrid cars more achievable for the average person.

My Camry got 45 MPG on the last fillup. I think that we've already switched to winter gasoline as MPGs has gone done. I usually get 50-55 MPG going down to see my mother and the 16 gallon tank makes for some impressive range on long trips.

On an Apple EV, I could just see the charging holster with a huge Lightning port.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

My Camry got 45 MPG on the last fillup. I think that we've already switched to winter gasoline as MPGs has gone done. I usually get 50-55 MPG going down to see my mother and the 16 gallon tank makes for some impressive range on long trips.

On an Apple EV, I could just see the charging holster with a huge Lightning port.

I can only imagine the size of the scorched contacts on the thing. Yikes... I remember seeing the power connections for the gigantic IBM mainframe where I went to school, and it was impressive. And there wasn't just one connector either. Someone said they had to turn the power off to the connections if they needed to disconnect/reconnect them due to the arcing and real chance of potential damage. Yikes... But I'm sure the Apple Car would be safe and elegant for power hookup. Some of the early electric car plugs looked a little intimidating.

But a gigantic lightning cable? Too funny...

 

[diamond.g]

I would not personally buy a Tesla. It's just not an appealing prospect to support Mr. Musk. I feel he's far too unstable, and there is the question of long term maintenance issues, and what happens to the old batteries.

I did own a Toyota Prius, and it was an interesting ownership experience. The hybrid technology is all about moderation, and the best way to use it seemed to be to overuse the cruise control system. I did average over 40MPG on a trip upstate. My previous vehicle would be sucking fumes of a 16 gallon tank by the time I arrived, and the Prius wasn't even on half. I spent a week driving around, and had enough gas in the tank to make it back, and last the next week too. But the trip involved watching things pass outside the car at a slower speed. I noticed things that I had never seen before, so it was interesting. Toyota's placement of the Prius in the market was rather muted. There was no way to connect a bike rack to the vehicle. The inside was roomy, but a bike barely fit inside, and if luggage was needed to, it was a very tight fit, unless there wasn't a passenger. And if the passenger also had a bike, that was a deal breaker. No roof racks, no roof luggage boxes, no way to help make it fit my life.

I did like the car. It was quiet. The iPod attachment invalidated the satellite radio, which the dealer didn't realize, which was surprising. It could have supported more tech, but it was a pretty good experience, aside from the cartage opportunities.

We need a 'Volkswagen' type program, likely with major government support/ownership to get a truly usable solution for a workable electric vehicle for 'the rest of us'.

I just hope the electric/hybrid vehicle market doesn't look too closely at the e-bike market. One vendor in particular has positioned their entire product line for people that can afford stratospheric cost of ownership. The prices are stunning. I use the price of my most expensive bike I've purchased as a yardstick, and their bikes are double, and not, the cost of that bike. YIKES!!! It's like they are marketing their 'bikes' to those hovering in the rarefied air near the Karman Line.


I'm still waiting for news of an official Apple Car. Maybe that would make them the droid we are looking for, to make electric/hybrid cars more achievable for the average person.

Tesla are not for everyone, and sometimes I wish the company would stop trying to project themselves that way. Hybrids are fine vehicles to get for the transition to BEV, plug in hybrids are even better. The biggest downside (IMO) is the performance is fairly meh on every hybrid outside of Porsche/Acura NSX/Polestar 1.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Tesla are not for everyone, and sometimes I wish the company would stop trying to project themselves that way. Hybrids are fine vehicles to get for the transition to BEV, plug in hybrids are even better. The biggest downside (IMO) is the performance is fairly meh on every hybrid outside of Porsche/Acura NSX/Polestar 1.

Hah! I went to the Toyota dealership and complained about the mileage I wasn't getting with the Prius. I was 'driving it wrong' was their explanation. 'You can't drive it like a normal car, you have to give yourself time to get there.' That's when they told me to use the cruise control. *BINGO* It smoothed out the demand from the accelerator and my average MPG rose quite a bit. A friend had a hybrid Lexus, and complained about what a waste of money it was to buy that car. I shared the tip from the Toyota dealership, and they tried it, and it worked for them too.

I wonder how many Porsche owners will be complaining about the same issue...

 

[diamond.g]

Hah! I went to the Toyota dealership and complained about the mileage I wasn't getting with the Prius. I was 'driving it wrong' was their explanation. 'You can't drive it like a normal car, you have to give yourself time to get there.' That's when they told me to use the cruise control. *BINGO* It smoothed out the demand from the accelerator and my average MPG rose quite a bit. A friend had a hybrid Lexus, and complained about what a waste of money it was to buy that car. I shared the tip from the Toyota dealership, and they tried it, and it worked for them too.

I wonder how many Porsche owners will be complaining about the same issue...

Most likely none as all the hybrid Porsches are their top tier models that boost performance at the cost of MPG. I also wouldn't tell someone to get an EV because of gas savings (technically can be true though) because you do have to drive sedately in order to get the efficiency, at least not a Tesla, lol.

 

[pshufd]

Most likely none as all the hybrid Porsches are their top tier models that boost performance at the cost of MPG. I also wouldn't tell someone to get an EV because of gas savings (technically can be true though) because you do have to drive sedately in order to get the efficiency, at least not a Tesla, lol.

One of the fuel-savings feature that I noticed on Tesla models was where it would take elevation volatility into account for estimated fuel consumption. That's the only mapping service that I am aware of that does that. Directional volatility could also have some impact on fuel consumption though it's probably smaller.

None of my friends with Tesla bought them for fuel economy.

 

[diamond.g]

One of the fuel-savings feature that I noticed on Tesla models was where it would take elevation volatility into account for estimated fuel consumption. That's the only mapping service that I am aware of that does that. Directional volatility could also have some impact on fuel consumption though it's probably smaller.

None of my friends with Tesla bought them for fuel economy.

How many of your friends are in the FSD beta Navigate on City Streets Beta?

 

[pshufd]

How many of your friends are in the FSD beta?

None. They are too cheap.

 

[diamond.g]

None. They are too cheap.

Ah.

I have been seeing quite a few Mustang Mach E's around the Hampton Roads area recently.

 

[pshufd]

Ah.

I have been seeing quite a few Mustang Mach E's around the Hampton Roads area recently.

NH has folks that are wealthy and they will spend on capital goods and maintenance but are otherwise frugal in their spending. I am the same way so I guess I fit in.

 

[diamond.g]

NH has folks that are wealthy and they will spend on capital goods and maintenance but are otherwise frugal in their spending. I am the same way so I guess I fit in.

Tires, that is a big ticket maintenance item on EV's. Due to all the torque and weight you go through them much faster than normal.