I challenge anyone to watch this video and tell me adding this to a vehicle as new ISN'T a major change that would rival the engineering difference between most traditional manufacture's model year changes. This is a fundamental design change. Again, we are talking about one set of vehicles never having it, then a break in the assembly line and all vehicles from that point have it...
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
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I challenge anyone to watch this video and tell me adding this to a vehicle as new ISN'T a major change that would rival the engineering difference between most traditional manufacture's model year changes. This is a fundamental design change. Again, we are talking about one set of vehicles never having it, then a break in the assembly line and all vehicles from that point have it...
Hopefully the insurance is taking care of the value though?
The issue might be how long they have to wait for parts. Good luck with it.
C7 Corvette->C8 Corvette
5th gen Camaro ->6th gen Camaro meet the definition.
CTS-> CT5 meet the definition.
Those all had architectural changes done between the different generations.
Yes Juniper and Highland got new suspension, but the basic geometry couldn't be changed because that is baked into the platform they ride on and that didn't change. You're not going to be able to give the Model 3 the Cybertrucks 48 volt system because again that is baked into the platform.
It's why when the 6th gen Camaro got its facelift/refresh in 2019 and gained the camera rear view mirror, it lost homelink because the camera rear view mirror took its place on the electrical architecture.
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That is indeed an interesting one. I had a B6 (3.0 Quattro Tiptronic), considering they gave it a new model code (B7) , it is an entirely new model on paper. And the B7 had the PL47 platform not the PL46. But interestingly my type number 8H was the same on B6/B7 so for parts you differentiate by model year. I knew a few who changed the front end to make it look like a B7. The interior had a nice refresh, although my late B6 had the same technology in it. So yes, this had a new platform, but looked the same. Who knows what it is, it definitely wasn't a whole brand new car, to the consumer it looked and felt like a facelift. I skipped the B7 for that reason as it would effectively be the same I already had, albeit with a refreshed front, and some upgraded specs mainly the lights as I already had the modern (for its time) RNS system.
When the Polestar 2 released, it did not have it for the first release cars, nor MY21…So yes, that was introduced as new technology in MY22, and only when you choose a certain trim level that did already exist.
Wow, hope insurance covers it.
Out of interest, do they do the Ioniq 5N in the USA? It is making quite some waves both within the EV and traditional motorsport communities over here. Love how Hyundai is applying their N DNA to an EV in the right way. Really shows their experience in that field.
Just a choice on how they choose to do it. It doesn't have to be that way. It is great they give it to all cars as standard, it definitely helps. We are having around -10 at the moment and no material impact, on the contrary, much better than my ICE. So I'm glad about a heat pump and wish it was standard for all cars. Then again, many live in climates where they don't necessarily benefit from it. So I can also understand manufacturers that design it in such a way that it can be optional. Again, nothing new, keeps the unit cost down, and customers can decide what is best for them. A break in the assembly line is also entirely normal, happens nearly everywhere with model year changes.
I can only speak to Tesla. But the Heat Pump is more than just HVAC as I mentioned. It is a fundamental part of all heating and cooling components of the battery and HVAC. The “system” can add heat or remove heat from the battery. It is way more efficient it providing heat to the cabin, but it is a fundamental change in the vehicles design, at least with the way Tesla deployed it.
Yes, I know what a heat pump for an EV is
it is not something unique to Tesla. Just like with anything, there are similarities, there are differences, and then there is marketing. Heat pump technology is nothing new or unique.Yet, the traditional manufacture VAG considers it a new model, not a refresh. The refresh was the B8 and B8.5. So, my point still stands. Tesla deployed way more changes throughout the years but didn’t hold them back until they had a traditional automakers refresh break. There is no reason to not give them this credit (be it Tesla, Rivian or Lucid). The differences between a 2017 TM3 and a 2024 TM3 (pre-Highland) are way more than a traditional manufacturer has in what has been called “mid-year” changes. The list is extensive…
We have to manage expectations now. These new manufacturers have to be lean. They do not have the ability to keep building defects or older technology for years, just to hold them back for the old school “refresh” or “new model” times. Fix the problem, or advance the tech immediately or die…
Heat pump
HW2.0 HW2.5, HW3, HW4
AP1, AP2
Intel to Ryzen
Original to Comfort Suspension
Increase battery
Gigacasting
7-seater (required redesigned crash zones and testing)
These are all things that a traditional manufacturer would hold back for either a refresh or a new model.
Yes, I know what a heat pump for an EV is
I know you are aware of what a heat pump is. I only say that not all designs are as significant as with the Tesla design. I also am personally not aware of all the different ways deployed, and how they differ. If you are aware of how they are deployed in all these EV companies, then you know WAY more than me.
If Polestar made the heat pump part of the battery thermal maintenance and the HVAC and introduced it mid year, I would personally consider that enough of a change that it warrants calling it a refresh. That is a significant change, not just changing a few outer trim pieces like GM would do and get credit. GM changes the front grill/rear tail lights, and it gets called a refresh, when they both bolt to the same mounting points. I don’t understand how anyone could not give credit to a significant engineering change that manages the battery and the HVAC…
Pretty sure all heat pumps in EV’s do the same. Preheat/cool the battery to increase efficiency and aid charging times (as I understand it).
It was an optional extra on the i3. But I don’t think mine has it.
As I said before, we have to agree to disagree. Getting rather bored with just hearing the repeat. Tesla is great, it is the almighty... Can we at least agree that one should never look at Elon's X account?
Again. You are deflecting and trying to make this a “you only defend Tesla” thing to make your point seem right. This applies to all the new EV companies. Take Tesla out of what I said, and replace it with Rivian or Lucid.
What the CEO of Tesla does has no bearing on anything we are talking about. I do not care about him or his politics. We are having a discussion about EVs and terms associated with changes. You keep showing your bias against Tesla. if you go back to your initial comment about the release of the new Y, you said it was long overdue, a vehicle that has only existed 4-5 years…
This is not how new companies work. Rivian, Tesla, Lucid, haven’t been around long enough to reach the traditional cycle of refresh/new models. If they wait, they would fold. They have to act immediately.
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I didn't think that many EV's precondition their batteries for charging.
I think Tesla's innovation in heat pump, is the octo-valve that allows them to use 1 heat pump to move heat between three different glycol loops.
This clearly highlights how some people don’t understand how electric vehicles work. From an ICE perspective this is absolutely correct. It’s just not from an EV perspective. This was a significant change and improvement.
FFS.....
It is a significant change and improvement to the vehicle. But it isn't a whole new vehicle or platform change.
It would be like replacing the Corvette's 495 HP LT2 OHV V8 with a 550 HP DOHC V8. It's a major improvement to the car and significant change, but it isn't a redesign of the platform or architecture of the car. It's a new engine put into the same platform. It isn't a whole new car.
Highland and Juniper are refreshes/heavy face lift to the vehicle. It isn't a redesign of the Model 3 and Model Y.
The closest thing Tesla has to claim about making a platform or architecture change to their current vehicles is the move to the gigacastings with the Model Y and the structural battery pack.
So until the sheetmetal of the vehicle itself changes seems like the traditional automotive community is going to say everything Tesla (in this case, maybe even Rivian with their Gen 2 stuff) has done is just heavy refreshes/facelifts.
Not even…. They are saying they aren’t even refreshes/facelifts. They are calling them “mid-year” changes…
Makes no sense…
When have I claimed Juniper and Highland aren't refreshes/facelifts?
That has been my stance the whole freaking time.
They updated some sheetmetal, refreshed the interior design, etc. It's a refresh/facelift.
This is a facelift/refresh.
2017 6th gen Camaro SS
2019 6th gen Camaro SS
This is basically what Tesla did as well. Some sheetmetal changes done to the front and rear.
I am putting it as a heavy facelift because they also made some changes to the interior and suspension. But it isn't a whole new vehicle. They took the existing vehicle and tweaked it.
You said the addition of a Heat pump is at the level of a mid year change…
I and others disagreed based on the significant engineering design change. You called it a HVAC change. You quoted someone specifically talking about how significant the addition of a heat pump was.
Because there’s no need to rebuild the entire frame of the car to make it look a little different. This is why General Motors is failing. Tesla revolutionized how cars are made
Which it freaking is.
Again going back to the engine change in the Corvette. 2025 MY Corvette has 495 HP OHV V8. 2026 MY Corvette has this theoretical 550 HP DOHC V8. Significant change, but it is still the same freaking vehicle. Replacing engines isn't a simple engineering task either. But it is still a C8 Corvette and isn't a redesign of the vehicle or a facelift/refresh.
I am done with this thread entirely. I am not here as anti-EV or anti-Tesla. Remember I have a Model 3 myself and love it. But the level of worship here is ridiculous.
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It’s not about evs or liking evs or liking petrol or whatever. It’s a definitional thing on what a constitutes a refresh vs an update on which , no surprise people on the internet disagree.