Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[quagmire]

It’s not about evs or liking evs or liking petrol or whatever. It’s a definitional thing on what a constitutes a refresh vs an update on which , no surprise people on the internet disagree.

I was more referencing Russel's post how GM is supposedly "failing" and Tesla is this great automaker. That's worship and his statement is not anywhere close to reality because GM isn't failing.

Tesla has done some great and revolutionary engineering feats. There is no question about it. They certainly do operate differently from legacy automakers in terms of making these updates and changes on the fly vs waiting for the traditional model year changes or a designated point in time to update the vehicle. And that includes making changes to the chassis again with the gigacastings and structural battery pack. That kind of change would be reserved for the next generation of the vehicle in the legacy world.

But Tesla updating the sheetmetal on the front and rear of the 3 and Y and GM "needing" to change the frame to do the same is ridiculous and not based in reality.

 

[russell_314]

It’s not about evs or liking evs or liking petrol or whatever. It’s a definitional thing on what a constitutes a refresh vs an update

That is very true. Anytime something major changes people have a hard time, figuring out how to define it.

no surprise people on the internet disagree.

Wait, is this a thing? 🤔😂

 

[russell_314]

I was more referencing Russel's post how GM is supposedly "failing" and Tesla is this great automaker. That's worship and his statement is not anywhere close to reality because GM isn't failing.

Tesla has done some great and revolutionary engineering feats. There is no question about it. They certainly do operate differently from legacy automakers in terms of making these updates and changes on the fly vs waiting for the traditional model year changes or a designated point in time to update the vehicle. And that includes making changes to the chassis again with the gigacastings and structural battery pack. That kind of change would be reserved for the next generation of the vehicle in the legacy world.

But Tesla updating the sheetmetal on the front and rear of the 3 and Y and GM "needing" to change the frame to do the same is ridiculous and not based in reality.

I didn’t phrase my statement correctly so I don’t blame you for misunderstanding it. Reading it I would have misunderstood it. GM isn’t failing as in going bankrupt, at least not anytime soon I hope. They are failing to keep up with technology. If they don’t keep up that could lead to bankruptcy, but I suspect that won’t happen. Yes there’s no reason to change out an entire frame to refresh a car. Once legacy auto catches up and starts using giga castings they will do the same thing as Tesla. It’s not just Tesla by the way. There are many Chinese electric vehicle manufacturers that are also way ahead in technology. Tesla isn’t ahead because of what they’re doing, but rather the failure of legacy auto to compete.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I didn't think that many EV's precondition their batteries for charging.

Oh, yes they do, any half decent EV has been doing that for a long time. Those with Google's AAOS have it done automatically when you set the route to a DC charger. And, if you set a timer to depart, and you are connected to an AC charger, it will also precondition for driving. I think the Hyundai/Kia platform is one of the few where you can actually set it manually as well to precondition.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Again. You are deflecting and trying to make this a “you only defend Tesla” thing to make your point seem right. This applies to all the new EV companies. Take Tesla out of what I said, and replace it with Rivian or Lucid.

What the CEO of Tesla does has no bearing on anything we are talking about. I do not care about him or his politics. We are having a discussion about EVs and terms associated with changes. You keep showing your bias against Tesla. if you go back to your initial comment about the release of the new Y, you said it was long overdue, a vehicle that has only existed 4-5 years…

This is not how new companies work. Rivian, Tesla, Lucid, haven’t been around long enough to reach the traditional cycle of refresh/new models. If they wait, they would fold. They have to act immediately.

LOL So we can't even agree on that part. Ok, then 🤣

 

[russell_314]

Oh, yes they do, any half decent EV has been doing that for a long time. Those with Google's AAOS have it done automatically when you set the route to a DC charger. And, if you set a timer to depart, and you are connected to an AC charger, it will also precondition for driving. I think the Hyundai/Kia platform is one of the few where you can actually set it manually as well to precondition.

I wish Tesla would have an option to manually precondition. You can set a destination to a supercharger and it will do it, but there’s no way to just press a button. There’s scheduled preconditioning, but I don’t think this is the same as when you route to a supercharger.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Which it freaking is.

Again going back to the engine change in the Corvette. 2025 MY Corvette has 495 HP OHV V8. 2026 MY Corvette has this theoretical 550 HP DOHC V8. Significant change, but it is still the same freaking vehicle. Replacing engines isn't a simple engineering task either. But it is still a C8 Corvette and isn't a redesign of the vehicle or a facelift/refresh.

I am done with this thread entirely. I am not here as anti-EV or anti-Tesla. Remember I have a Model 3 myself and love it. But the level of worship here is ridiculous.

It really is like some have never had experienced another car, let alone a decent one. What was a celebration and hooray for the new model that has come out is taken totally out of context by some super defensive behaviour that a refresh wasn't overdue. Most peculiar.

 

[I7guy]

I wish Tesla would have an option to manually precondition. You can set a destination to a supercharger and it will do it, but there’s no way to just press a button. There’s scheduled preconditioning, but I don’t think this is the same as when you route to a supercharger.

I think if the climate is manually turned in the battery will be preconditioned if needed.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I wish Tesla would have an option to manually precondition. You can set a destination to a supercharger and it will do it, but there’s no way to just press a button. There’s scheduled preconditioning, but I don’t think this is the same as when you route to a supercharger.

There is with a S3XY commander (I have the knob in my Y and the commander+ buttons in my 3). You can set a button to manually precondition the battery (I don’t use it because I don’t really use L3+ chargers).

 

[JT2002TJ]

I think if the climate is manually turned in the battery will be preconditioned if needed.

This preconditions for cabin and battery for regular driving temps. I’m assuming he means preconditioning for L3+ charging, which is true. There is no manual button in Tesla’s UI to trigger L3+ charging preconditioning. You have to set the Supercharger as a destination. If you use 3rd party chargers, it wont precondition.

EDIT: But in my post above this, there is a 3rd party device that gives you tons of features that are either hidden in Tesla’s UI or non-existent. Like I use the rear fog (not available in NA, but is physically there), and on/off mirror anti-dazzle and interior cabin light buttons as my go to S3XY buttons. I also use drive mode changing based on 90% pedal (goes from Chill to Sport when you exceed 90% pedal, and returns to chill when you reduce pedal t <10%).

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I wish Tesla would have an option to manually precondition. You can set a destination to a supercharger and it will do it, but there’s no way to just press a button. There’s scheduled preconditioning, but I don’t think this is the same as when you route to a supercharger.

Yes, same for the Polestar.

The scheduled preconditioning focusses more on car and cabin at operating temperature which is great ofcourse, and because it only works for both cabin and battery when it is on a AC charger it effectively doesn't have to condition the battery for charging as it is a charged. Or so I interpreted the logic. Still a nice feature. The scheduled preconditioning when you are not connected to a charger is cabin only, or you can just press the button in the app to do that for you.

Also, it needs about 15 minutes when you want to precondition the battery for charging DC. In my experience when you are on a long trip and have just been driving the battery down to say between 10-20% the preconditioning doesn't materially add anything as the battery is on operating temperature anyway (like having done 80mph (ca. 130 km/h) for the past two hours).

 

[cyb3rdud3]

This preconditions for cabin and battery for regular driving temps. I’m assuming he means preconditioning for L3+ charging, which is true. There is no manual button in Tesla’s UI to trigger L3+ charging preconditioning. You have to set the Supercharger as a destination. If you use 3rd party chargers, it wont precondition.

Oh that is a shame. Polestar does it to any DC charger you set. Doesn't care who operates it.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Oh that is a shame. Polestar does it to any DC charger you set. Doesn't care who operates it.

Tesla’s UI only includes Tesla L3 chargers (here in the US at least). It’s not an issue here in the US, because only Tesla is taking L3+ chargers seriously. Which is why there are all the posts about people gaining access to Tesla Superchargers from other manufacturers.

I have no idea if Tesla intends to include non-Tesla SC in the future once other L3+ chargers are truly an option for Tesla drivers. I assume they will as 3rd party NACS chargers pop up.

EDIT: I have no idea if Tesla’s UI includes 3rd party L3+ chargers overseas. It might…. I would need a UK/EU Tesla owner to speak up on this one. If it includes it, I just assume it would precondition the battery.

EDIT 2: If Tesla’s UI does not include 3rd party CCS2 chargers in the UK/EU with preconditioning it is 100% a gap that should be addressed. Here in the US, it’s not a big deal now, but will become one if not addressed as 3rd party chargers become more of a thing Tesla users will access.

 

[I7guy]

I wish Tesla would have an option to manually precondition. You can set a destination to a supercharger and it will do it, but there’s no way to just press a button. There’s scheduled preconditioning, but I don’t think this is the same as when you route to a supercharger.

So some context was gained in the intervening posts. What would be the use case for manually preconditioning the car if you didn’t plan on navigating to a supercharger? Navigating to a non-Tesla supercharger?

 

[JT2002TJ]

So some context was gained in the intervening posts. What would be the use case for manually preconditioning the car if you didn’t plan on navigating to a supercharger? Navigating to a non-Tesla supercharger?

It’s specifically if you are trying to use a 3rd party L3+ charger that is the issue (non-Tesla superchargers as you called it). Without the preconditioning you will not get the fastest charging rate. It is more of an issue for Tesla owners who are away from the coasts when they road trip. They are more likely to need to use a CCS1 charger. For me, and most Tesla owners it is not an issue here in the US, but there are a significant number of people it does affect.

It is an area of opportunity. Including 3rd party L3 chargers in the UI would solve this.

*I try to over explain myself so non-EV people who are looking at getting an EV (the point of this tread) understand the background and can make an informed decision on which EV they go with. So, if I am saying things that are obvious, please just skip over.

 

[jz0309]

Wow, hope insurance covers it.

Out of interest, do they do the Ioniq 5N in the USA? It is making quite some waves both within the EV and traditional motorsport communities over here. Love how Hyundai is applying their N DNA to an EV in the right way. Really shows their experience in that field.

The 5N is built in Korea, not sure if they will bring it to the US, that new factory line just went online for the 2025 models

 

[jz0309]

Oh, yes they do, any half decent EV has been doing that for a long time. Those with Google's AAOS have it done automatically when you set the route to a DC charger. And, if you set a timer to depart, and you are connected to an AC charger, it will also precondition for driving. I think the Hyundai/Kia platform is one of the few where you can actually set it manually as well to precondition.

Actually, at least for the IONIQ 5 it is introduced for the 2025 model, manually pre-conditioning that is.

And the new 2025 5 gets a “larger” battery (82 or 83 kWh vs 78) plus they redesigned the interface and added physical buttons for climate control - does that make it a refresh? Or?
Sorry, I had too much popcorn and couldn’t resist

 

[russell_314]

I think if the climate is manually turned in the battery will be preconditioned if needed.

Yes, you can do this and it says preconditioning but if you ever hear the difference between what that does and navigating to a supercharger, there’s some difference. When I navigate to a supercharger the car sounds like it’s about to takeoff 😂

There is with a S3XY commander (I have the knob in my Y and the commander+ buttons in my 3). You can set a button to manually precondition the battery (I don’t use it because I don’t really use L3+ chargers).

I thought about getting this button setup because I hear it has lots of cool features. I’m not crazy about buttons, but I would like to have an easy way to pop open the glove compartment. I also hear you can make one switch between chill and normal driving modes. That would be occasionally convenient.

Yes, same for the Polestar.

The scheduled preconditioning focusses more on car and cabin at operating temperature which is great ofcourse, and because it only works for both cabin and battery when it is on a AC charger it effectively doesn't have to condition the battery for charging as it is a charged. Or so I interpreted the logic. Still a nice feature. The scheduled preconditioning when you are not connected to a charger is cabin only, or you can just press the button in the app to do that for you.

Also, it needs about 15 minutes when you want to precondition the battery for charging DC. In my experience when you are on a long trip and have just been driving the battery down to say between 10-20% the preconditioning doesn't materially add anything as the battery is on operating temperature anyway (like having done 80mph (ca. 130 km/h) for the past two hours).

Yeah, the Tesla does a good job getting the interior warm and I suspect it does some precondition, but maybe not as much as preconditioning for supercharger

So some context was gained in the intervening posts. What would be the use case for manually preconditioning the car if you didn’t plan on navigating to a supercharger? Navigating to a non-Tesla supercharger?

I think that would be a good use case. Also, if I didn’t want to set navigation, but knew you were headed to a supercharger. Just push a button and it’s on. I think part of it is because it’s not there so I want it. Tesla is very much like Apple in the sense of father knows best and here’s how it’s going to be. I don’t really dislike that but sometimes it’s annoying.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I thought about getting this button setup because I hear it has lots of cool features. I’m not crazy about buttons, but I would like to have an easy way to pop open the glove compartment. I also hear you can make one switch between chill and normal driving modes. That would be occasionally convenient.

Do you have a Gen 1, Gen 2, or Gen 3 interior (Gen 3 is the highland)? If Gen 2+ the S3XY knob is real nice. Yes you can change the driving modes on the fly, you can also change regen settings in 25% increments, change FWD-RWD bias all the way from 0/100, 50/50 or 100/0 with LR AWD models.

Here is mine in my TMY (Gen 2 interior) right after the install. There are 5 functions here, interior cabin lights, rear fog, rear ac vent, music and the center if you press in climate control. Each will open to a sub menu when you push the button.

I think that would be a good use case. Also, if I didn’t want to set navigation, but knew you were headed to a supercharger. Just push a button and it’s on. I think part of it is because it’s not there so I want it. Tesla is very much like Apple in the sense of father knows best and here’s how it’s going to be. I don’t really dislike that but sometimes it’s annoying.

I have supercharged 3 times in 2+ years. One time I set the destination to a supercharger that was 30 mins away. It preconditioned immediately and cooled off prior to arriving and I still got the “you should preconditioned before supercharging” warning in the UI. I don’t SC enough to say it wasn’t user error, but I was on my way home from shopping and I needed to SC as I was leaving it at the airport later that day (I didn’t have enough time to L2 at home before leaving for the airport). Not the best, but I was still in and out of the SC in 15 minutes. A manual button would have been great, even for SC use in this situation.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Tesla’s UI only includes Tesla L3 chargers (here in the US at least). It’s not an issue here in the US, because only Tesla is taking L3+ chargers seriously. Which is why there are all the posts about people gaining access to Tesla Superchargers from other manufacturers.

I have no idea if Tesla intends to include non-Tesla SC in the future once other L3+ chargers are truly an option for Tesla drivers. I assume they will as 3rd party NACS chargers pop up.

EDIT: I have no idea if Tesla’s UI includes 3rd party L3+ chargers overseas. It might…. I would need a UK/EU Tesla owner to speak up on this one. If it includes it, I just assume it would precondition the battery.

EDIT 2: If Tesla’s UI does not include 3rd party CCS2 chargers in the UK/EU with preconditioning it is 100% a gap that should be addressed. Here in the US, it’s not a big deal now, but will become one if not addressed as 3rd party chargers become more of a thing Tesla users will access.

I just googled. It seems they do in the EU and Israel at least, but with some reservations like quality control of charging. So yes decent ones like IONITY and FastNed shouldn’t be a problem. And they show up, allegedly, as quality assured third party chargers. 👍

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The 5N is built in Korea, not sure if they will bring it to the US, that new factory line just went online for the 2025 models

Shame if they don’t. It’s supposed to be pretty special. I must admit I do like what Hyundai/Kia are doing with their EVs.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

So some context was gained in the intervening posts. What would be the use case for manually preconditioning the car if you didn’t plan on navigating to a supercharger? Navigating to a non-Tesla supercharger?

I wouldn’t know why anyone would want to navigate to a charger. Other than some chargers not being on the map. Think emergency services or other agencies, race tracks, and some taxi facilities for example. So you know it’s there, but the car doesn’t, and then you can prepare for the best possible charging speeds.

 

[jz0309]

Shame if they don’t. It’s supposed to be pretty special. I must admit I do like what Hyundai/Kia are doing with their EVs.

Yea, agree. When I got mine the dealer had an orange one for sale, looked very sharp. I sat in it, the seats are lightweight and kinda reminded me of Recaro. I didn’t really like it, seats were all manual and my old bones didn’t feel comfortable, maybe 20 years ago

 

[timber]

Tesla’s UI only includes Tesla L3 chargers (here in the US at least). It’s not an issue here in the US, because only Tesla is taking L3+ chargers seriously. Which is why there are all the posts about people gaining access to Tesla Superchargers from other manufacturers.

I have no idea if Tesla intends to include non-Tesla SC in the future once other L3+ chargers are truly an option for Tesla drivers. I assume they will as 3rd party NACS chargers pop up.

EDIT: I have no idea if Tesla’s UI includes 3rd party L3+ chargers overseas. It might…. I would need a UK/EU Tesla owner to speak up on this one. If it includes it, I just assume it would precondition the battery.

EDIT 2: If Tesla’s UI does not include 3rd party CCS2 chargers in the UK/EU with preconditioning it is 100% a gap that should be addressed. Here in the US, it’s not a big deal now, but will become one if not addressed as 3rd party chargers become more of a thing Tesla users will access.

That are moving in the right direction.
Before you had other chargers in the nav system but they were just POIs like a restaurant or whatever.
Now you can access their availability by port.
Tesla should use them or at least give the option to use them (because SCs have the best experience so I kind of understand their reluctance) as part of a navigation route. Which of course would include conditioning.