Yeah the strap is pretty terrible as its already starting to go bad. Not to mention it's pretty uncomfortable too. Your watch looks pretty good with that bracelet, btw.
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Who's got a nice watch? Traditional watches only, no smartwatches please.
- Thread starter JW8725
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Yeah the strap is pretty terrible as its already starting to go bad. Not to mention it's pretty uncomfortable too. Your watch looks pretty good with that bracelet, btw.
LOL. They are exactly the same in functionality and have just as many parts as their high end (expensive) cousins. Just because they don't costs £20k+ doesn't mean that they are not functionally the same basic movement.
I totally agree that the level of craftsmanship and care that goes into the likes of a Patek or Lange tourbillon will be stunning and a real work of art, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the Chinese versions are any less sophisticated or remarkable. Sure, the Chinese variants will have some automated machined parts, but they will will be hand assembled by some poor sod earning about £10 per month which is one of the reasons why they are able to manufacture them so cheaply. Just like the Apple goodies that we all enjoy.
There is a Swiss watch company called Cecil Purnell who used to use Liaoning 5010 ebauches (same movement in my tourbillon) for their tourbillons and charged $22k+ for them. They finished them in house and put a massive markup on them because that's what you can do if you produce watches from Basel or Glasshutte. Was the extra finessing of the movements worth a 4x markup on the original? Probably not, but those geographical areas are perceived as higher quality because that's what they have been successfully marketed as being by high end brands in the watch industry. The Chinese tourbillon was clearly good enough and "real" enough for them to pass off as Swiss though.
Don't get me wrong - I would give my right arm for a Patek/JLC/Breguet tourbillon as they are stunning watches and have the cache and history to go some way to justifying their ridiculous pricing. It doesn't mean that other parts of the world aren't making interesting and important movements though. Grand Seiko is prime example of how far an Asian watch manufacturer has come compared to how they were originally perceived. Another would be the Seagull watch company, which is a very well respected Chinese brand that produces some excellent movements that are very favourably compared to their ETA counterparts. They are the fourth largest manufacturer of mechanical watch movements in the world and make some excellent watches (i've got one on the way from them at the moment which will be posted here in a week or so).
Don't let the high end brands fool you into thinking that only they can make complicated and important watches. Price doesn't always mean fake.
Do you have any source for that?
As far as I understand it, tourbillons are mostly anachronistic in that they were originally designed to compensate for the way pocket watches stayed most time in one position.
The counter argument for this is that accuracy contests are still routinely won by watches that feature tourbillons.
So it seems that Swiss tourbillons of the grande complication variety from Patek, JLC, Lange and breguet are still somewhat functionally relevant while being beautiful but I haven't seen much evidence that the Chinese tourbillons also give this benefit for wrist watches.
Great one!!
Mee too!! It's the new Metro from Nomos. It's the first with their new proprietary in-house developed movement.
They haven't yet included it on their catalog, you have to ask for it specifically.
It's really elegant and beautiful. I want it even more than the omega seamaster aqua terra >15,000 gauss
Mee too!! It's the new Metro from Nomos. It's the first with their new proprietary in-house developed movement.
They haven't yet included it on their catalog, you have to ask for it specifically.
It's really elegant and beautiful. I want it even more than the omega seamaster aqua terra >15,000 gauss
+1
Have my eye on this piece:
Unfortunately Breguet's theories about the effects of gravity may not have a great deal of merit to them and the truth of the matter is that a decent chronometer will perform the same (if not better) as a tourbillon in terms of accuracy.
The fact that the most accurate watches in these competitions have tourbillons in them is, no doubt, also down to the fact that the watches themselves are built to very high standards and tolerances.
Tourbillons have, for a long time now, been regarded as a symbol of craftsmanship and luxury, as they are so complicated to make and beautiful to look at. They have been marketed as something that only high end watch manufacturers can produce and that was the case for a long time until Chinese manufacturers began to produce their own.
The Chinese variants may not be as accurate as the likes of AP/PP/etc. but that is more likely down to the overall quality of the watch itself and not due to the fact that the tourbillon is in any way functionally different (they aren't). In much the same way that a £50 Seiko 5 may not be as accurate as a £5,500 Rolex Datejust. They both use an automatic movement, which is basically the same design, but one is mass produced for cost and the other is a Seiko
(kidding). I have an Orient Bambino watch that has an in-house Japanese automatic movement and it keeps time to within +/-3secs a day. That's within COSC standards and yet it only cost me £150, how is that functionally different to an in-house Swiss watch that costs £10K?Here are some links that you might find interesting regarding Tourbillons, which also have some information about the influx of Chinese versions.
Rinky dink link 1
Rinky dink link 2
Rinky dink link 3
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I love those Nomos watches. I will have a Tangente one day!
This sleek thing, amazing value for the price, just waiting for it to arrive Down Under.
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/03...467f-8954-530db231a693_large.png?v=1398257720
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/03...467f-8954-530db231a693_large.png?v=1398257720
orient bambino is the best shot imo
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contributing to the thread
tag heuer aquaracer calibre s by needfx, on Flickr
Unfortunately Breguet's theories about the effects of gravity may not have a great deal of merit to them and the truth of the matter is that a decent chronometer will perform the same (if not better) as a tourbillon in terms of accuracy.
The fact that the most accurate watches in these competitions have tourbillons in them is, no doubt, also down to the fact that the watches themselves are built to very high standards and tolerances.
Tourbillons have, for a long time now, been regarded as a symbol of craftsmanship and luxury, as they are so complicated to make and beautiful to look at. They have been marketed as something that only high end watch manufacturers can produce and that was the case for a long time until Chinese manufacturers began to produce their own.
The Chinese variants may not be as accurate as the likes of AP/PP/etc. but that is more likely down to the overall quality of the watch itself and not due to the fact that the tourbillon is in any way functionally different (they aren't). In much the same way that a £50 Seiko 5 may not be as accurate as a £5,500 Rolex Datejust. They both use an automatic movement, which is basically the same design, but one is mass produced for cost and the other is a Seiko
Here are some links that you might find interesting regarding Tourbillons, which also have some information about the influx of Chinese versions.
Rinky dink link 1
Rinky dink link 2
Rinky dink link 3
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I love those Nomos watches. I will have a Tangente one day!
Ariel Adams is a good source of watch reviews but I'm not sure if he is in position to pontificate about accuracy of tourbillons as he is not a watchmaker or a mechanical engineer (is he?)
The articles you posted are interesting but he doesn't seem to have much reference for the claims regarding tourbillon's inability to improve accuracy.
Granted, I suppose the main reason people buy tourbillons these days, like any mechanical watch, is for the artistic and artisan aspect, not for accuracy so perhaps it's all a moot point.
Personally I would like to buy a tourbillon from Patek or Breguet or JLC some day.
Regardless of their accuracy improvements, they are reallly mesmerizing to look at.
I would say he's in a perfect position to comment on such things considering he is one of the worlds leading bloggers on watches and it's his job to review and comment on the watch industry. He obviously has a lot of experience with all kinds of watches having been doing it for major publications for the last five years.
I can see that there is no changing your mind so we will agree to disagree but both agree that we would like to own a nice Patek
Who's got a nice watch?
I would come to not believe the conventional thinking that tourbillons compensate for gravity's effects and improve accuracy if I saw either of these two types of evidence:
1) time error measurements which show that under similar condition of manufacture, tourbillon doesn't produce more accurate watches (no such evidence has ever been produced by anyone I've seen; only evidence to the contrary)
2) renowned watchmakers (like FP Journe) who denounce the claims that tourbillons improve accuracy.
Ariel Adams is a blogger with no special insight into the technical aspects of watchmaking.
I would trust him more than random people for sure but if it's Ariel Adams vs the manufacture claims of the entire Swiss watch industry, I'm not sure if I would trust him.
I would say he's in a perfect position to comment on such things considering he is one of the worlds leading bloggers on watches and it's his job to review and comment on the watch industry. He obviously has a lot of experience with all kinds of watches having been doing it for major publications for the last five years.
I can see that there is no changing your mind so we will agree to disagree but both agree that we would like to own a nice Patek
I would come to not believe the conventional thinking that tourbillons compensate for gravity's effects and improve accuracy if I saw either of these two types of evidence:
1) time error measurements which show that under similar condition of manufacture, tourbillon doesn't produce more accurate watches (no such evidence has ever been produced by anyone I've seen; only evidence to the contrary)
2) renowned watchmakers (like FP Journe) who denounce the claims that tourbillons improve accuracy.
Ariel Adams is a blogger with no special insight into the technical aspects of watchmaking.
I would trust him more than random people for sure but if it's Ariel Adams vs the manufacture claims of the entire Swiss watch industry, I'm not sure if I would trust him.
Personally I would trust someone with an independent view of the watch industry rather than the claims of a multi billion dollar watch manufacturer which has an agenda of sales and prestige to uphold. Particularly an industry that insists upon changing the rules of the International Chronometry competition so that they can remain anonymous in case they don't win and that doesn't allow manufacturers outside of Europe to compete after Japanese watches took some of the top spots a few years back!
http://www.watch-around.com/index.php?id=12&L=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=2063&cHash=7132de542e052fb14940ee3a75cb400d
Interestingly, at previous competitions the top manufacturers only submitted Tourbillon movements, which is why they won the top three places. I note that they didn't enter any of their non Tourbillon models. Probably because that would show the real differences I guess.
A top tier Swiss watchmaker is never going to say that a Tourbillon offers no discernible performance improvements over one of their standard movements. Not when they can charge ten times the price for the Tourbillon version. Sure, the Tourbillon is more complicated to make and an attractive thing to have, but they have cleverly marketed them as offering more accuracy. Basic science tells us that the effects of gravity can be negated with the movement of the wrist on a wristwatch, so the Tourbillon is redundant when not in a pocket watch.
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And you have taken the time - the valuable time - out of your life to choose to post this insight in a watch thread?
Exactly. Agreed.
Some of us like the physical beauty of certain watches, especially the well made exquisitely crafted ones. And I have long been fascinated by how humans have decided to record and represent the passing of time.
So, yes, I always wear a watch, and love to do so.
orient bambino is the best shot imo
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contributing to the thread
Cracking photo! Great detail.
lol. that was stupid.
we should all go express our lack of interest in whatever it is that interests him.
Agree with zagato27; that is a beautifully taken photograph of a rather elegant timepiece.
Thanks
will be attempting some more, hope they turn out as interesting but with more character. Depends on the piece of course