Why is Big Sur so ugly?

[qoop]

I most definitely think the user who was perhaps most distracted to the point of disgust at times was Jony Ive. And he was given all the power required to change things to his preferred way after Steve & Scott. Over the past 5 years I have tried to find it online but can't...I recall reading an interview of Jony regarding all the skeuomorphic affordances in iOS (and maybe even OS X) around the timeframe of either iOS6 or Scott's departure where Jony was quoted as very definitively scoffing that he was most definitely not the one who drove adding such detail to the interface, etc. I recall laughing at the article at what sounded like a petulant, selfish, closed-minded non-team-playing child. Wish I could find that article. Maybe it was exorcised from the interwebs just like the Jony Ive Soundboard.

Jony Ive soundboard 'personally offended' Apple's design guru

With his soothing British accent, love of flowery design terms, and immediately recognizable pronunciation of "aluminium," few people in tech are as

www.cultofmac.com

I think Ive was happier when he was designing toilets.

 

[qoop]

I see, I see. Nobody is having a "meltdown" using Big Sur. Nobody is using an avatar and a signature exposing a clear meltdown behavior...

Big Sur's minimalist interface does not disturb me, does not get in the way of my work as a professional designer, in fact it allows me work faster than before. "It just works."

If your clients marched into your office one day and demanded skeuomorphic design, would all the love drain away from your face?

 

[fisherking]

The problem with this is that everything "works" for me perfectly on Mojave. Since then there hasn't been any feature that appeals to me in any way.
* Sidecar, aka CLOWN Car: Why? I don't even own an ipad but if I did, still... why?
* Emojis: I don't mind that they exist, they're easy to ignore, but it's embarassing that a company would actually market this as a feature

None of the features they highlight matter to me at all.

And if I buy a new MacBook Pro, I am forced to use Big Sur, or whatever the next disaster release is.

i care most about the changes that happen under the hood; you know, the things that drive our macs, make things work? i don't care about sidecar, emojis, siri on the mac (for that matter), although, if people use these things, that's great.

snow leopard was a great OS moment, but am glad i'm not still running that. and if mojave works for you, enjoy it (while you can). meanwhile, the world moves forward, like it or not. personally (as i've said before), i enjoy the 'adventure of the new', the challenges... and the rewards.

 

[colourfastt]

* Emojis: I don't mind that they exist, they're easy to ignore, but it's embarassing that a company would actually market this as a feature

This +1,000

 

[Tozovac]

I am just laughing at the people complaining about Big Sur UI. Can't believe they kept complaining the entire day about details that don't even disturb the result of your work on Big Sur.

There's quite a lot in those two sentences.

First of all, I'm glad to have helped entertain you.

Secondly, speaking for myself, as far as all the banter this week: I like keeping the conversation going. It makes me feel good to complain/whine/pontificate amongst MR users who similarly miss intuitive, engaging, efficient, and rather attractive/unique interface design in our Apple products.

Third, I enjoy hearing from those on the other side of the fence, as I've been hoping to hear for ~7 years now a post exactly like this one by @Bruninho who said "Big Sur's minimalist interface...allows me work faster than before."

Why is Big Sur so ugly?

Well, here's an honest question then. Looking back up at this post: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-is-big-sur-so-ugly.2243081/page-46?post=29720441#post-29720441 What is it about the top representation that would make you work slower than "before," represented by the bottom...

forums.macrumors.com

That post may be closest I've found in MacRumors to possibly leading to a user providing concrete examples of how the things I find more intuitive, efficient, and engaging are actually less efficient for them.

I (and many others in this thread) can and have offered concrete examples of how Big Sur and even the current iPad/iPhone OS's result in slowing down and making less efficient (and enjoyable) many of our work processes due to the reduced intuitiveness and vagueness from things like flat design, text-for-buttons with an undefined tap area, hiding oft-used functions offscreen behind a hamburger icon (or ellipse, or gear...sometimes becoming a hide-n-seek game), light grey font on bright white backgrounds, and generally all-monochromatic/white everything with a minimum of clearly-different shaded defined borders, zones, etc.

But I have yet to read a single concrete example of how the things I and many feel represent "good interface design" (generally, interfaces from the golden/best age of OS X & iPad/iOS from ~2004-2013 until iOS7 and Yosemite) actually slow down and make less efficient someone’s work processes.

I've read dozens of "I prefer minimalist interfaces" or "I can just adapt to them" but never "this is specifically how the Mavericks or iOS6 interface confused me at times and was much less intuitive and efficient," or "this is specifically how the iOS6 type of tool was broken and how the iOS7 tool fixed those shortcomings."

Until I read something concrete, I'll continue to contend that things like flat design and most of Apple's interface themes after and including iOS7 & Yosemite were forced stylistic form-first design decisions mostly for the sake of change and not for the larger target of always-improving, efficient, intuitive design. It's been an entertaining waiting game for any examples of what was broken "before."

Come on, neuomorphism will never be a success. I am yet to see a full fledged website or app done in this ridiculous aspect, even if it existed I would never use it. Flat design is here to stay for years. Accept this fact or die. =)

Extreme much? Troll much? . Too late, neumorphism is already here. It's in the ROKU app on my iPhone/iPad (where I first noticed the improved remote control that actually presents buttons to look like buttons with a defined tap area, and of different colors, resulting in near-instant intuitiveness. It's slowly working its way back into the iPad/iOS. This thought of "we're now going to move away from something called flat design and towards something we'll now call neumorphism, but don't call it skeuomorphism" is kind of ridiculous. Instead of using tried-and-true principles, this neumorphic effort may be unnecessary hemmed into another new set of stylistically-defined limitations instead of using what was defined 15 years ago based on intuitive, engaging interface design.

Basically, the days before assigning specific titles to interfaces were the best...before Material Design, flat design, fluid design/windows metro, android's interface that was forced to be as different from iOS as possible at the time, etc. Those were the days when Apple's interface design was based on what just works best and not what can we do differently now?

Well done!

For those under the age of 35—THIS is what we used to keep our calendar (more often called a "diary"), in this case, one of the most common, the DayTimer:

View attachment 1750091

I can't believe the vendor of that planner had the audacity to use lines, different color borders, dark fonts, etc. How could they have not at the time recognized that a flat/minimalist page would be best, maybe no lines at all. Surely no paper calendar found in today's office supply stores would look ANYTHING like that over-the-top-detailed planner?

Why is Big Sur so ugly?

Well, here's an honest question then. Looking back up at this post: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-is-big-sur-so-ugly.2243081/page-46?post=29720441#post-29720441 What is it about the top representation that would make you work slower than "before," represented by the bottom...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[drdudj]

i don't know, to me it's similar to buying a car; all cars do the job they are suppose to do; get you from point A to point B. you can get one that has options(programs) that can make the journey more pleasant, as well as a gps that will direct you there. each manufacturer has slightly different looks to the comforts/programs/controls within that car, and it is up to the buyer as to which car better serves/meets his needs. you don't like the looks of the info screen in a certain make of car, then buy a different car that has the looks that are more agreeable to you. but don't buy a car that doesn't meet your needs then complain about how bad the car is. seems pretty simple to me. you test drive a car, check out it's features, probably check the reviews online, and i would imagine that most serious computer users do the same when considering buying a new computer. i hope you are not one of those who orders a steak, eats it all and sucks the grease off the bone, then complains to the waitress that you're not paying for the steak because it was slightly over done. are you?

 

[fisherking]

i would think that most macusers buy what's available; they go to the apple store, ask if the new macbook air will work with their email and Word... then buy it, migrate their data, get confused about a few things, call apple support... then get on with their lives.

only 'pros' stress the specs (as they well should). and only nerds and obsessive types (am in these groups) spend time on forums complaining about icon shapes and menubar spacing (a not in that group).

so, everything is as it should be (in the tech world, if not, lol, in the current GUI) 😊

 

[Tozovac]

Yes please. What do you think of Big Sur?

Sure I enjoy hearing what users like you think but I'd love to (finally) hear how the interface elements I prefer and feel are more functionally intuitive and efficient made for less intuitive or efficient use for you. I can point out for days the elements I feel are broken/forced in Big Sur and iOS after iOS7, but I can never seem to read how the interface elements I prefer were broken.

 

[Bruninho]

The moaning session started early today. lmao returning a mac because of an OS aesthetic 🤣 I’d be more concerned about the amazing performance the M1 has than the looks. If you don’t want it then send it to me. I’ll make a good use of the M1 power with my emulators and Photoshop/Illustrator/Adobe XD.

I used Photoshop mainly, and Illustrator for some folder icons. To generate icns, I used a phyton script I’ve found last year to generate them. Also tweaked some custom app icons (OneDrive still does not have a Big Sur icon, so I created one)

At first I tried to use XD, but XD has a cumbersome way to deal with gradients, well done Adobe... I’ve been considering a switch to Figma, that one works on all OS and with a few tweaks, I can use on my iPad Pro with the pen and Vectornator app. The switch will have to wait, my work expects XD prototypes.

 

[Bruninho]

If your clients marched into your office one day and demanded skeuomorphic design, would all the love drain away from your face?

I’d tell them to **** off and find another designer. I do not work with that.

 

[Bruninho]

Instead of moaning about the Big Sur UI then why don’t you do something about it???? Moaning will not get you what you want for the OS. DO SOMETHING ABOUT. I’ve presented to you at least five things you can do.

Like I do with the folder icons.

Neuomorphism will not succeed in this market. It’s so gross and ugly that I refuse to use apps with this design. Flat design is the MOST wanted design from my clients and the market, and this will not change until someone comes with something better. The market has spoken. Everyone wants Flat and minimalist design.

If you’re not happy then don’t use Big Sur. Use something else. But you’re going to complain about, at least read the Apple Human Interface Guidelines before spitting out stupidities.

 

[fisherking]

i can't think of a single thing wrong with spending an afternoon customizing folders (or something) on your mac. but it's sort-of like this:

"what did you do today?"

"i customized the system folders on my mac. what did you do?"

"i finished my novel, sorted all my email, and watched a great movie"

still, whatever works, or is fun, or seems important...

 

[Bruninho]

i can't think of a single thing wrong with spending an afternoon customizing folders (or something) on your mac. but it's sort-of like this:

"what did you do today?"

"i customized the system folders on my mac. what did you do?"

"i finished my novel, sorted all my email, and watched a great movie"

still, whatever works, or is fun, or seems important...

You completely missed my point

 

[Tozovac]

I’d tell them to **** off and find another designer. I do not work with that.

You’re Jony Ive trolling MR, admit it!

 

[Tozovac]

Instead of moaning about the Big Sur UI then why don’t you do something about it???? Moaning will not get you what you want for the OS. DO SOMETHING ABOUT. I’ve presented to you at least five things you can do.

Like I do with the folder icons.

Neuomorphism will not succeed in this market. It’s so gross and ugly that I refuse to use apps with this design. Flat design is the MOST wanted design from my clients and the market, and this will not change until someone comes with something better. The market has spoken. Everyone wants Flat and minimalist design.

If you’re not happy then don’t use Big Sur. Use something else. But you’re going to complain about, at least read the Apple Human Interface Guidelines before spitting out stupidities.

And several of us responded why your options made no sense/value for us.

I still would love to hear specifics of how the non-minimalist interface elements that I and many prefer cause you to work slower. List them out, we are giving you the floor!

 

[fisherking]

You completely missed my point

View attachment 1750529

huh? where did you see me reference any post of yours? was making a general observation...

 

[fisherking]

And several of us responded why your options made no sense/value for us.

I still would love to hear specifics of how the non-minimalist interface elements that I and many prefer cause you to work slower. List them out, we are giving you the floor!

this works both ways, as some people prefer the new minimalism, and some don't. while some here complain that the new GUI makes them work slower, others have no such issue. see? opinion, not fact...

 

[CasualFanboy]

I think Ive was happier when he was designing toilets.

Did he play a part in designing Big Sur? If so, he's still designing toilets.

 

[Tozovac]

this works both ways, as some people prefer the new minimalism, and some don't. while some here complain that the new GUI makes them work slower, others have no such issue. see? opinion, not fact...

Once again. For the 10th time. I want to hear how the prior “non minimalist” interface cues (for which I’ve provided specific examples) are less efficient for any users. Specifics. Otherwise, hearing “I or others prefer...” continues to prove to me that minimalist flat design is solely an aesthetic fashion-first function-second decision. I’m not winning any prize here, I’m just maintaining proof for whatever little it’s worth that ios7/flat design and much of Big Sur’s controversial styling is for sticking to a fad based on minimalist looks only, first and foremost, solely, and unfortunately.

 

[Bruninho]

It works in the sense of “if you are not complaining, then this is working for you”. Period.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Neuomorphism will not succeed in this market. It’s so gross and ugly that I refuse to use apps with this design.

> laughs about people refusing to use a GUI they don't like
> says he refuses to use a GUI he doesn't like

Bro, I'm really starting to love your posts.

 

[fisherking]

Once again. For the 10th time. I want to hear how the prior “non minimalist” interface cues (for which I’ve provided specific examples) are less efficient for any users. Specifics. Otherwise, hearing “I or others prefer...” continues to prove to me that minimalist flat design is solely an aesthetic fashion-first function-second decision. I’m not winning any prize here, I’m just maintaining proof for whatever little it’s worth that ios7/flat design and much of Big Sur’s controversial styling is for sticking to a fad based on minimalist looks only, first and foremost, solely, and unfortunately.

who says they're 'less efficient'? not me. i was fine on those OSes... just as i'm doing fine now. and you talk of big sur's look as a 'fad', as it every previous mac OS wasn't 'of the moment' as well.

this is how 'modern' design works; it's current, and forward-looking, until one day, it looks 'old'... just like every other previous mac OS.

so, yes, you're not winning any prize here

 

[Tozovac]

who says they're 'less efficient'? not me. i was fine on those OSes... just as i'm doing fine now. and you talk of big sur's look as a 'fad', as it every previous mac OS wasn't 'of the moment' as well.

this is how 'modern' design works; it's current, and forward-looking, until one day, it looks 'old'... just like every other previous mac OS.

so, yes, you're not winning any prize here

@Bruninho said Big Sur’s minimalism lets him work more efficient but he won’t expand upon his statement with examples of how the prior methods I prefer and listed were less efficient for him.

Otherwise the overt minimalism is more for trendily staying newish.

 

[CasualFanboy]

Here's another relevant point about why people are complaining in this topic. We still want to use our Macs, and want to continue for a long time. We're just disappointed because we have seen what the company is (or was) capable of, and it just doesn't look like they care quite as much anymore. More bugs, less attractive interfaces that look just like all the rest.

There's a reason I don't visit Microsoft forums to complain - I don't use their products, haven't used them for over a decade if given the choice, and expect nothing from them. I'm sure it's great for some people, but I have never liked it. I don't even really know what they're up to these days, and obviously their products won't bother me because I don't interact with them very much. However, on the rare occasion when forced to do so, it's a miserable experience.

 

[fisherking]

@Bruninho said Big Sur’s minimalism lets him work more efficient but he won’t expand upon his statement with examples of how the prior methods I prefer and listed were less efficient for him.

Otherwise the overt minimalism is more for trendily staying newish.

right, but you responded directly to me. perhaps be more judicious in who you quote. and i fixed your last sentence for you:

"Otherwise, in my opinion, the overt minimalism is more for trendily staying newish."