Do you have one, or have tried one? The videos I’ve seen of convergence don’t look that bad, but if someone has hand’s on experience, I’d like to hear it before I invest.
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Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?
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Thinking back, I remember people getting so up in arms about "Tracking cookies" on their browser.
Now they're OK with Apple scanning the pictures on their device.
I also find it funny that a lot of people who appear to have "blind trust" in Apple to do the right thing, are some of the same ones saying "But I don't use iCloud, I turn off GPS, I use a VPN, I bla bla"... if you have so much trust in Apple to do the right thing, why so many precautions?
I also see a lot of "Then don't use iCloud!" Sure... that's easy enough to say. Except that I PAY for iCloud storage, because if something happens to my phone, it's the best way to get the most recent (nightly) backup of my information, contacts, messages, apps, photos, without having to nightly plug my phone into my computer, load up iTunes, and do a backup. I honestly can't remember the last time I plugged my phone into my computer.
Now they're OK with Apple scanning the pictures on their device.
I also find it funny that a lot of people who appear to have "blind trust" in Apple to do the right thing, are some of the same ones saying "But I don't use iCloud, I turn off GPS, I use a VPN, I bla bla"... if you have so much trust in Apple to do the right thing, why so many precautions?
I also see a lot of "Then don't use iCloud!" Sure... that's easy enough to say. Except that I PAY for iCloud storage, because if something happens to my phone, it's the best way to get the most recent (nightly) backup of my information, contacts, messages, apps, photos, without having to nightly plug my phone into my computer, load up iTunes, and do a backup. I honestly can't remember the last time I plugged my phone into my computer.
From what I've read, it appears as though Apple will neuralhash all your photos, on your device, regardless. Now, I may be mis-reading that; but Apple is giving some very mixed signals and giving conflicting information.
Now, if that's the case, it would be a VERY easy thing (if they're not already planning it) to just send those hashes to apple, whether or not you upload to iCloud. Since the law says that it's illegal to be in POSSESSION of those photos in any form, it's not a huge leap. Since the neural hashes are relatively small, you wouldn't even realize it's happening. Or just to flip a switch that says "Only upload the hash if there's a possible match". Once again, a VERY easy thing to do, once the software is in place on your phone.
The argument of "just turn off iCloud photos" is really a bad argument, although I've seen it used many times in this thread. The reality of it is, this has triggered alarms by a number of people who are much smarter than we are (lawyers, the EFF, etc.) and the very fact that Apple is pushing it out to essentially perform surveillance on every one of its users is frightening at the very least.
I'll ask my question again. Would you be comfortable with someone putting a camera in your house, with some AI on it to sense child abuse, with the PROMISE that they would never ever look at your spouse in their underwear. Would you be comfortable with that? I mean, people freak out that Alexa and Google Home is constantly listening.
The argument of "If you're not doing something illegal, you have nothing to worry about" is a very slippery slope to go down. The implementation of the "Patriot Act" should show you that our government isn't afraid to spy on its own citizens in the name of "safety".
Pearl Harbor should show you that our government isn't afraid of even killing its own citizens.
Eugenics should show you that our government doesn't care about human rights.
The end result, whether scanned on my phone or on the cloud, may be the same. One could argue that traffic cameras that automatically mail you a speeding ticket results are the same as if you were caught by a police officer with a radar gun. Except, it may not have been you driving; it may have mis-read a license plate, it may have been a justifiable reason, lots can go wrong when an "automatic" system is put in place.
And... once again... Apple is NOT law enforcement. There has been discussion already about whether this is considered a deputization of Apple to actively search for illegal content on end user devices, in which case, if they ARE considered deputized, they are in violation of the 4th amendment. And, if they're NOT deputized, then (IMHO) it's digital trespassing on my device.
This is true in other areas, too. I think it’s called ‘reaction formation’.
Like a person who wants to watch sexually-explicit material but knows it’s not accepted among their friends/family so they join the movie rating agency who has to view everything to determine what’s offensive or not. That way they get to view it but in an acceptable way.
It will be beyond ironic when this feature, that he thought would protect gay people, is used by other governments to find and persecute gay people.
Apple delays rollout of CSAM detection system and child safety features - 9to5Mac
Last month, Apple announced a handful of new child safety features that proved to be controversial, including CSAM detection for...
9to5mac.com
Lots of good points. So, when the feature becomes standalone without iCloud, are the same folks going to say, “Just don’t use an iPhone?” That whole “Just don’t” line is a water slide. The problem with it is that we soon won’t have a choice. You know other companies are going to follow Apple, and good luck finding a phone out there that doesn’t run iOS, Android, or some variation of it. I’m not even sure Linux will be safe from this long-term. Technology is trapping us, we’d better free ourselves before it’s too late.
Good, but I’m not reversing course on my exit strategy. We can’t follow Australia‘a path.Apple delays rollout of CSAM detection system and child safety features - 9to5Mac
Last month, Apple announced a handful of new child safety features that proved to be controversial, including CSAM detection for...
On the section in bold (my doing), that has been an ongoing question. Federal law states that obtaining knowledge of the specific item requires reporting to NCMEC or law enforcement. So if an item is identified as a match, how are they legally getting around that with the “currently 30 matches”? Is there wiggle room because they need “eyes on verification”?
Wonder how FB, Google, MS, and others are handling the reporting? Looks like are reporting on discovery (incident).
There is a lot here that Apple is being silent on instead of clarifying to alleviate the confusion.
Just saw the https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...safety-features-to-make-improvements.2309617/
Hopefully we get some answers.
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I guess we can end this discussion until we find out what changes they've made to the process. Maybe they're going to do all the scanning in an intermediate server before encryption, but not on your personal device. Who knows, but it's good that they're at least acknowledging they need to rethink their approach to it.
End? No. It just changes direction a small bit.
Delays is the operative word. Waiting until a more ripe time when we are distracted with other things. a last minute slip in before iOS 15 goes GM wasn't the most opportune time in the end.
What arrogance
What arrogance
These features are coming later this year in updates to iOS 15, iPadOS 15, watchOS 8, and macOS Monterey.*
This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time.
This program is ambitious, and protecting children is an important responsibility. These efforts will evolve and expand over time.
What? Are we going to discuss what they might do? Eh, I guess it's called MacRumors for a reason. It's not MacFacts.com
No. We’re going to keep on top of this and warn people if Apple tries to just slip it into an update. Infringing on personal freedom is a human rights abuse as well.
I may do this in the future, I don’t currently have a lot of money to throw around.
Weren't you all for it but now it's good that they need to make changes to it?
Kind of confused why that you would believe that Apple needs to rethink their approach now.
And why would this end any discussion? You had wanted them to launch the previous system without any discussion at all...
I'm part of the group that doesn't care if my device is scanned or if it's scanned in the cloud. I don't care where the scan happens. I'm just glad that they're re-thinking their approach. It shows that they're listening and willing to take criticism.
I still don't care if they do it the original way they planned, but that's just my preference. I realize that a lot of people feel differently than me and I'm glad they've at least acknowledged that maybe it's not the BEST approach to this problem.
Hopefully whatever they come up with, it pleases everyone.
But as the Californian hedge fund Muddy Waters points out, “high trust environments” are fertile ground for wrongdoing because there’s an assumption everyone can be trusted.
Huh?
Apple said they are going to delay / reevaluate and will look further …..
The conversation only changes is respect to Apple “delaying”. Everything else still holds true.
Now if Apple said “Cancel”, that would kill a lot of this convo.
I'm starting to wonder if we're being trolled.
And, I must say, if that is the case, I respect the hell out of that.
For this many pages? I have to agree--in a weird sort of way.
Well yeah, there's the sustained effort aspect. Plus, I just like trolls.... if they're entertaining and effective.
You are the only one to also say what I did earlier, which is that I don't believe that Apple is only scanning with iCloud upload. I also said that if they discover SCAM on the phone, no doubt they would report it. The person being reported would never know how they were discovered. They would probably assume they were caught in a FBI sting. And as I said, since no one would have any sympathy for the perp, Apple's possible involvement would not be questioned. The issue for the rest of us that are not perps, is that our privacy and personal data is being scanned and logged.
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