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Bubble99

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2015
1,100
304
Seems like mobile devices already have TPM 2.0 enabled like on my Surface Pro X and Lenovo Yoga 6. On my desktop, it's part of AMD PSP and fTPM is disabled by default in BIOS. After enabling and running TPM.MSC from Windows it shows TPM 2.0 so all good. I'll check a few older 2000 era devices to see what they report.
Why is Microsoft pushing TPM 2.0

It makes no sense.
 

petvas

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2006
5,479
1,808
Munich, Germany
I have been using Windows since 1993 and I really don’t like it. It’s not very simple to explain what is really wrong with Windows. I am sure that many people like it, others hate it and many just are used to it. For me technology has one goal: To make our lives better. I strongly believe in ecosystems that offer a complete feature set that allows people to use various devices in a way that everything works together, connected and not disconnected. When I look at Windows (the version doesn’t really matter), I see a big disconnect. I see no real ecosystem in place.
There is no tight integration of hardware and software and that is one of my major pain points when discussing and evaluating Windows. For people that do not care about having a deep integration across any computing device, then Windows is ok. For everybody else, Apple is the much better choice.
Some typical examples where this integration is lacking in the Windows world are:
  • You want to edit a video? No standard app in the OS is available. You have to download and use a 3rd party, which most of the times sucks (unless it is Adobe Premiere of course, but that costs quite a lot of money). In the Apple work you have iMovie literally everywhere.
  • You want to stream your videos to your TV from your Windows PC? Of course you can do that, but you would have to use some kind of 3rd party casting hardware and software combination, which of course is totally disconnected from everything else you are using.
  • You want to have you picture library synced, your albums synced across all your devices? Just use OneDrive for a week and try to do that and you will understand that it is just bad and not deeply integrated into the OS.
  • You want to start writing a document on your tablet and then continue on your desktop computer? Not possible. You would have to save the document (or use auto save in OneDrive), open the document on your second computer and then continue editing.
  • You want to use your smart watch to listen to your favorite playlist you created on any other device you own? Not possible
The list goes on and on. Windows is good if you use it disconnected from your life. If you see your devices as separate and do not understand the benefits of integration. If you want to use O365 and the Office apps then Windows is good. The problems of Windows though are deep and cannot be solved by a new version.
The major issue I see is that the hardware is just not up to par with what Apple is making. I have used a lot of Surface computers and I am tired of their issues, which are just unacceptable. Drivers issues, power management issues, lag issues…Windows is not smooth, it has never been. I understand that many people use them for specific scenarios and that businesses will not stop buying Windows PCs or developing for Windows, but in my personal life I do not see a place for Windows. Gaming is something that many people love doing on Windows. I just use my PlayStation 5 for all of my gaming. I don’t need a PC for that and I certainly wouldn’t get one just for gaming. (But that’s just me)

Windows 11 from a feature perspective doesn’t really bring a lot of changes. Yes, a somewhat new interface and some great Windows snapping options (which I would love to see on the Mac too), but apart from that the ecosystem stays the same. Having the ability to run Android apps on Windows doesn’t change anything. Just remember how bad most Android tablet apps are and imagine them running on a Windows desktop or laptop…No point in doing that and Microsoft should have known better.
The teams integration in the OS is interesting, but Teams must improve a lot if people are going to start using it in their personal lives. Teams is an enterprise application and is difficult to see it as a personal conferencing and chatting software.
So, I am not excited at all but I was never the target group of Microsoft.
 

Bubble99

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2015
1,100
304
The window snapping is phenomenal, apple start your photocopiers.. and start taking notes too..

When you try to use the split screen on a Mac and you can’t select the window you want because it is on another space is getting me screaming.
Well Windows have way better multitasking when compared to say iPadOS and MacOS the big problem with windows is the lack of apps to choose from and quality of apps.

Most web dev code for iOS and android and just see no money in making apps for windows for tablets and two and one computers.
 

zakarhino

Contributor
Sep 13, 2014
2,608
6,958
Why is Microsoft pushing TPM 2.0

It makes no sense.

It allows Microsoft and PC manufacturers to lock down their hardware to a greater extent. Also it's likely there for some DRM BS they'll be doubling down on.

Edit: yeah it's 100% for DRM.
 

JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,424
The window snapping is phenomenal, apple start your photocopiers.. and start taking notes too..

When you try to use the split screen on a Mac and you can’t select the window you want because it is on another space is getting me screaming.
One of the best things on Mac is Magnet for that very reason. I’ve heard that there’s patent ****ery why Apple hasn’t implemented window snapping but I’m not certain.
 

Bubble99

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2015
1,100
304
i was crossing my fingers with some sort of Mac/IOS integration (i know...wishful thinking), Would love to have seen messages on PC

Microsoft have still not moved every thing from control panel to the settings so in many cases you have look in both places.

I thought windows 11 would move every thing over from the control panel to the settings.
 

Bubble99

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2015
1,100
304
It allows Microsoft and PC manufacturers to lock down their hardware to a greater extent. Also it's likely there for some DRM BS they'll be doubling down on.

Edit: yeah it's 100% for DRM.
I wonder if this will make it harder to install Linux?
 

Bubble99

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2015
1,100
304
Also Microsoft still have not redesign explorer their file manager.

No tab search and no redesign.

I thought for sure windows explorer will get make over and new features added like tabs.

 

iStorm

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2012
2,025
2,427
Interestingly, my Dell XPS 15 from 2015/2016 has TPM 2.0 so I'm good there, but it still won't support Windows 11 because it doesn't meet the processor requirements. It appears that Microsoft is requiring at least the 8th generation core processors, and mine is a 6th-gen Skylake one.

So not only is the TPM 2.0 requirement probably going to prevent a lot of people from upgrading, I'm suspecting quite a few won't have a "modern" processor either.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,407
2,641
OBX
Interestingly, my Dell XPS 15 from 2015/2016 has TPM 2.0 so I'm good there, but it still won't support Windows 11 because it doesn't meet the processor requirements. It appears that Microsoft is requiring at least the 8th generation core processors, and mine is a 6th-gen Skylake one.

So not only is the TPM 2.0 requirement probably going to prevent a lot of people from upgrading, I'm suspecting quite a few won't have a "modern" processor either.
Yeah the readiness tool says my Surface Pro 3 doesn't qualify for that reason as well. Now my son is worried his laptop won't make the cut either.
 

grmlin

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2015
1,110
777
I wonder if this will make it harder to install Linux?
Linux and secure boot can be quite frustrating. Easiest way is to disable it in the Bios when running Linux haha. Some distros work though if you manage to create a working uefi usb boot stick
 

robotica

macrumors 65816
Jul 10, 2007
1,256
1,412
Edinburgh
Seems like Microsoft is going to try and shift a whole load of legacy support with windows 11. I guess it might have needed to happen but I am still disappointed. Windows works so well on older hardware.
 

NT1440

macrumors Pentium
May 18, 2008
15,089
22,155
Security? Makes more sense for mobile and work devices. For home and older non-primary devices it should be optional.
It’s required for using modern BitLocker. I had to replace the entire companies fleet when I started because nothing had a TPM chip and I wasn’t doing any of the half assed workarounds.
It just so happened to put me on a great footing because the thinkpads were night and day more reliable than the HP garbage they replaced.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,217
Gotta be in it to win it
I have been using Windows since 1993 and I really don’t like it. It’s not very simple to explain what is really wrong with Windows. I am sure that many people like it, others hate it and many just are used to it. For me technology has one goal: To make our lives better. I strongly believe in ecosystems that offer a complete feature set that allows people to use various devices in a way that everything works together, connected and not disconnected. When I look at Windows (the version doesn’t really matter), I see a big disconnect. I see no real ecosystem in place.
There is no tight integration of hardware and software and that is one of my major pain points when discussing and evaluating Windows. For people that do not care about having a deep integration across any computing device, then Windows is ok. For everybody else, Apple is the much better choice.
Some typical examples where this integration is lacking in the Windows world are:
  • You want to edit a video? No standard app in the OS is available. You have to download and use a 3rd party, which most of the times sucks (unless it is Adobe Premiere of course, but that costs quite a lot of money). In the Apple work you have iMovie literally everywhere.
  • You want to stream your videos to your TV from your Windows PC? Of course you can do that, but you would have to use some kind of 3rd party casting hardware and software combination, which of course is totally disconnected from everything else you are using.
  • You want to have you picture library synced, your albums synced across all your devices? Just use OneDrive for a week and try to do that and you will understand that it is just bad and not deeply integrated into the OS.
  • You want to start writing a document on your tablet and then continue on your desktop computer? Not possible. You would have to save the document (or use auto save in OneDrive), open the document on your second computer and then continue editing.
  • You want to use your smart watch to listen to your favorite playlist you created on any other device you own? Not possible
The list goes on and on. Windows is good if you use it disconnected from your life. If you see your devices as separate and do not understand the benefits of integration. If you want to use O365 and the Office apps then Windows is good. The problems of Windows though are deep and cannot be solved by a new version.
The major issue I see is that the hardware is just not up to par with what Apple is making. I have used a lot of Surface computers and I am tired of their issues, which are just unacceptable. Drivers issues, power management issues, lag issues…Windows is not smooth, it has never been. I understand that many people use them for specific scenarios and that businesses will not stop buying Windows PCs or developing for Windows, but in my personal life I do not see a place for Windows. Gaming is something that many people love doing on Windows. I just use my PlayStation 5 for all of my gaming. I don’t need a PC for that and I certainly wouldn’t get one just for gaming. (But that’s just me)

Windows 11 from a feature perspective doesn’t really bring a lot of changes. Yes, a somewhat new interface and some great Windows snapping options (which I would love to see on the Mac too), but apart from that the ecosystem stays the same. Having the ability to run Android apps on Windows doesn’t change anything. Just remember how bad most Android tablet apps are and imagine them running on a Windows desktop or laptop…No point in doing that and Microsoft should have known better.
The teams integration in the OS is interesting, but Teams must improve a lot if people are going to start using it in their personal lives. Teams is an enterprise application and is difficult to see it as a personal conferencing and chatting software.
So, I am not excited at all but I was never the target group of Microsoft.
Well I cut my teeth on the original ibm xt with cga and lotus 1-2-3.

I get your frustrations. But windows has been dumbed down over the years. Along the lines of the core applications I can’t believe windows doesn’t have a decent DVD player. I can’t even remember if windows media player will play dvds.
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
786
899
Atlanta, GA
Well I cut my teeth on the original ibm xt with cga and lotus 1-2-3.

I get your frustrations. But windows has been dumbed down over the years. Along the lines of the core applications I can’t believe windows doesn’t have a decent DVD player. I can’t even remember if windows media player will play dvds.

I can't remember the last time Windows had a DVD player. Did it ever? I remember Dell and other companies installed one on their PCs. A bit absurd.
 
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iStorm

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2012
2,025
2,427
According to this page, it sounds like Windows 11 will require at least TPM 1.2, but will show a notification that the upgrade is not advised unless you have 2.0. Same goes for the CPU. Things older than the 8th Generation Intel Core should work, but “not advised”.

 
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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670

DaveFromCampbelltown

macrumors 68000
Jun 24, 2020
1,781
2,877
Well Windows have way better multitasking when compared to say iPadOS and MacOS the big problem with windows is the lack of apps to choose from and quality of apps.

Most web dev code for iOS and android and just see no money in making apps for windows for tablets and two and one computers.

Ok, I haven't used an iPad for some years now, but you are going to have to back up your claim about macOS with some evidence.
I can install/update software on my Mac three different ways concurrently (direct install from .DMG file, download/install from Apple Store and TeXLive Install/Update) without them tripping over each other. I can't do that on Windows (10 or 11).
If I haven't used a mac for a week, I can start it up and use it straight away. Any checks for updates and such like are done in the background at a low priority. If I haven't used Windows for a week, even if it is installed on a SSD, I have to wait for a couple of minutes for it to run through all its startup tests and update checks before I can open an application reasonably quickly.

As for giving the Android Store access to your Windows machine, that's just stupid. The number of malicious Android apps is appalling (Search)
 

AutomaticApple

Suspended
Original poster
Nov 28, 2018
7,401
3,378
Massachusetts
Folks, Windows 11 doesn't require TPM 2.0.
 

mdgm

macrumors 68000
Nov 2, 2010
1,665
406
Well, I don't even have TPM 1.2. Unfortunately a key piece of software I use will almost certainly drop support for Windows 10 within a year or two of Windows 11's releasee even though that will be well before Windows 10 security updates cease. Still need to see how the dust settles, and whether spoofing TPM somehow will work for OTA upgrades etc.
 

TopherMan12

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2019
786
899
Atlanta, GA
Folks, Windows 11 doesn't require TPM 2.0.

That's brilliant. Microsoft already has conflicting requirement information about their upcoming operating system from within their own websites:


Microsoft certainly has a knack for creating confusion about its products.
 
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