Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[j0hnmerrick]

That's strange. Do you maybe have WOD configured to use GPS distances (in Settings / Pace & Distance)? If so then Apple's distances are still stored by Apple's systems, which could explain the discrepancy.

In Distance & Average Pace, I have Apple configured. I figured with Apple everywhere, results shouldn’t change, right? Should I switch to GPS?
For Current Pace, I have Pedometer set, and the help text says that’s the best option

 

[cfc]

In Distance & Average Pace, I have Apple configured. I figured with Apple everywhere, results shouldn’t change, right? Should I switch to GPS?
For Current Pace, I have Pedometer set, and the help text says that’s the best option

With Apple everywhere then the values should be consistent. To be honest it's the sort of inconsistency that usually takes hours to investigate and often ends up without a conclusion, so I probably won't look into it because it's only a few metres. Sorry about that. It could well be some sort of rounding or interpolation issue.

 

[daanjj]

Thanks for being a long-term user of the app. If you choose not to restore from a full backup of the old phone then you can use Apple's File Sharing to copy the data from the old phone to a computer and then to copy it from there to the new phone:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201301 (Windows)
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210598 (MacOS)

I hadn't realised that about the scroll positions but now that you mention it they could be improved. I will bear it in mind.

The next version of the app will allow you to sort routes by latest (and nearest) as well as alphabetical. So I will probably do the same for schedules when I next look at that area of the code.

Thanks for the feedback!

@cfc I like to add an additional request, as a sort of follow-up on my earlier request for sort & search functionality in the interval schedules overview.

I already shared that I have collected a lof of interval schedules over the years, mainly b/c I have prepped for different races using different plans. It would be fantastic to be able to export/import all (or selected) interval schedules to a backup/archive file, so that you e.g. can clean up the ones not used in the last year without deleting them permanently. If needed later on, one could do a restore from that backup/archive file.
(BTW such a backup/archive should contain the full schedule, i.e. including the screen layouts that are part of an interval schedule.)

 

[cfc]

@cfc I like to add an additional request, as a sort of follow-up on my earlier request for sort & search functionality in the interval schedules overview.

I already shared that I have collected a lof of interval schedules over the years, mainly b/c I have prepped for different races using different plans. It would be fantastic to be able to export/import all (or selected) interval schedules to a backup/archive file, so that you e.g. can clean up the ones not used in the last year without deleting them permanently. If needed later on, one could do a restore from that backup/archive file.
(BTW such a backup/archive should contain the full schedule, i.e. including the screen layouts that are part of an interval schedule.)

I definitely plan to add importing and exporting of schedules in the future, and search & sort will probably happen at some time, but I currently don’t have any plans for bulk exporting. That is rarely requested.

You could back up the schedules to a computer by using Apple’s file sharing mechanism, which provides access to the app’s file system. It’s a bit fiddly, but it is feasible.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201301 (Windows)
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210598 (MacOS)

 

[BrianGGG]

One more inquiry on intervals.

I have always thought that Interval Schedules should be a tab rather than a setting. I certainly adjust intervals much more than maps or routes ...

Something to consider for the long term 2do list.

 

[cfc]

One more inquiry on intervals.

I have always thought that Interval Schedules should be a tab rather than a setting. I certainly adjust intervals much more than maps or routes ...

Something to consider for the long term 2do list.

I think that is subjective. I know from feedback that far more users are interested in the mapping / routing side of the app than in intervals, which is why the tabs are as they are, but I may make it configurable in the future.

 

[cichykot]

One more inquiry on intervals.

I have always thought that Interval Schedules should be a tab rather than a setting. I certainly adjust intervals much more than maps or routes ...

Something to consider for the long term 2do list.

A few days ago, I already wrote about this. Every day I create new workouts, and it would really be nice to have that button in a visible place.

 

[rxp]

New to workoutdoors after moving from garmin. Really making the transition easier. Does ios 18.1 have a few bugs for transferring maps to the watch offline? It downloads them on the phone but won't transfer to the watch despite opening the app and rebooting watch/phone.

Also are there any plans for real offline routing? big ask I know but wondering if it's on the roadmap

 

[cfc]

New to workoutdoors after moving from garmin. Really making the transition easier. Does ios 18.1 have a few bugs for transferring maps to the watch offline? It downloads them on the phone but won't transfer to the watch despite opening the app and rebooting watch/phone.

Also are there any plans for real offline routing? big ask I know but wondering if it's on the roadmap

The app uses the standard iOS to watchOS file transfer system but that can be unreliable at times. Unfortunately there is nothing the app can do about it. Sorry about that.

The usual reason for problems is if you have another app which is transferring data (usually an audio app). WorkOutDoors then needs to wait until that app is finished. So it is worth waiting and trying again later. Rebooting can help but can also make it worse sometimes because it restarts the other transfer.

Some people have reported that starting a dummy workout on the watch can help because it gives the app higher priority in the eyes of watchOS. An outdoor activity type seems best because it makes the app use GPS which may increase its priority.

Also some people say to move the watch away from the iPhone so it is out of Bluetooth range but still in WiFi range, because this forces the transfer to use WiFi instead of Bluetooth, which may make the other transfer faster.

In terms of real offline routing, this will be in the next major version of the app. However that will not be for several months. I am just getting back into coding it now after dealing with watchOS 11 / series 10 issues for the last few months.

There may be a minor version beforehand with support for double tap and effort scores. However both features seem slightly unreliable in beta testing so I haven't decided on that yet. Double tap does not work when running, which is an understandable watchOS limitation, but one which will probably mean complaints. And the effort scores take a long time to make it to Apple's Health system and sometimes seem to get lost.

Hopefully watchOS 11.1 will help but at the moment I wouldn't want to release a version with those features as headline features. However I may include them in a "bug fix" version where they aren't mentioned in the release notes.

 

[rxp]

Oh wow that'd be amazing & a total game changer for the AW. Garmin's still the only game in town when it comes to full offline routing. I was shocked at just how much faster your maps load than on my Forerunner 955 when scrolling/zooming etc. Obviously the chip is lighting fast on the AW vs Garmin.

Incase it helps you code I found a great app called Locus Maps that has an offline routing engine. It's obviously a very hard algorithmic thing to get right I'm sure so I'd be excited to try it out. Happy to beta test if you need anyone when you do get to it

Edit: I disabled bluetooth on the iphone and started an activity on the AW2U, transfers started immediately. Thanks

 

[cfc]

Oh wow that'd be amazing & a total game changer for the AW. Garmin's still the only game in town when it comes to full offline routing. I was shocked at just how much faster your maps load than on my Forerunner 955 when scrolling/zooming etc. Obviously the chip is lighting fast on the AW vs Garmin.

Incase it helps you code I found a great app called Locus Maps that has an offline routing engine. It's obviously a very hard algorithmic thing to get right I'm sure so I'd be excited to try it out. Happy to beta test if you need anyone when you do get to it

Edit: I disabled bluetooth on the iphone and started an activity on the AW2U, transfers started immediately. Thanks

Ah sorry, I missed the key word "offline" in your post! Unfortunately I don't plan to add routing when offline. At least not at first. The map data that the app uses is designed for display and does not contain enough information for offline routing.

I did spend a month or so investigating offline routing and got it working for 90%+ of situations (I used the simple A* algorithm) but the lack of turn restriction information in the map data meant that it could give dangerous cycling routes for a small minority of cases. I considered making it only available for hiking, which worked for 99%+ of cases, but even then the compression used by map data caused issues in a very few situations. It was fine for display but meant that I needed to guess whether crossing trails actually intersected and very occasionally that guess would be wrong.

I decided to leave it for now and make the first navigation version rely on routes calculated by other systems. I have long considered getting someone to build a map data server just for WOD, which could contain exactly the data the app needs, including that required for offline routing. It would also not contain the data it doesn't need, which would reduce download times. That is probably too much work and would cost too much at the moment but is a possibility in the future.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Beau10]

Also some people say to move the watch away from the iPhone so it is out of Bluetooth range but still in WiFi range, because this forces the transfer to use WiFi instead of Bluetooth, which may make the other transfer faster.

I've solved all my transfer issues (primarily w/ this app and Audible) by simply turning off bluetooth when I need a transfer to happen, then turning it back on when its finished.

 

[cfc]

I've solved all my transfer issues (primarily w/ this app and Audible) by simply turning off bluetooth when I need a transfer to happen, then turning it back on when its finished.

Thanks for the hint. That would be an easier way to force an existing long data transfer to use the much faster WiFi.

I thought some people had tried that without success, but it does seem that different things work for different people!

 

[keeper]

Why does WOD pause when I don't have auto paused enabled?
Today I stopped to eat for a mate, it cold so coat on I can see what the watch is dong and it paused at 12.22 miles, luckily my Bosch Flow add did the job and recorded the full 29.1 miles.
I just want WOD to record and end when I tell it to end and record the full mileage.

 

[cfc]

Why does WOD pause when I don't have auto paused enabled?
Today I stopped to eat for a mate, it cold so coat on I can see what the watch is dong and it paused at 12.22 miles, luckily my Bosch Flow add did the job and recorded the full 29.1 miles.
I just want WOD to record and end when I tell it to end and record the full mileage.

You may be accidentally pressing both side buttons at the same time, which pauses the workout (as it does with Apple’s app). You can disable this by going to the Settings then Commands then Shortcuts and setting the buttons to "Do Nothing".

 

[FMUK]

Some people have reported that starting a dummy workout on the watch can help because it gives the app higher priority in the eyes of watchOS. An outdoor activity type seems best because it makes the app use GPS which may increase its priority.

I've found that clicking on Map-Only makes map tile and route transfers 100% reliable.

 

[FMUK]

I decided to leave it for now and make the first navigation version rely on routes calculated by other systems.

This is 100% the best first step! (and is definitely all I want).

Let me create a route in Plotaroute, add some POI's/RoutePoints that will pop up and display info at points on the route I want them to (junctions etc), and away we go.

 

[cfc]

I've found that clicking on Map-Only makes map tile and route transfers 100% reliable.

That is interesting. Maybe it is the fact that a dummy workout uses GPS rather than the fact it is running a workout session is what helps for some people. Or maybe either will raise the priority of the app in the eyes of watchOS.

 

[Akrapovic]

So I did something that I suspect is a first for WoD, and maybe an Apple Watch. I drove an actual race car, on a Formula 1 grade circuit, at speed. I recorded it using WoD. I need to trim the workout as I started it and ended it about 5 min before and after. But it did work as you'd expect - gave me cornering speeds and such.

The distance between GPS pings is rather high when you're doing 130mph (209km/h), but it works.

 

[cfc]

So I did something that I suspect is a first for WoD, and maybe an Apple Watch. I drove an actual race car, on a Formula 1 grade circuit, at speed. I recorded it using WoD. I need to trim the workout as I started it and ended it about 5 min before and after. But it did work as you'd expect - gave me cornering speeds and such.

The distance between GPS pings is rather high when you're doing 130mph (209km/h), but it works.

That is the first time I have ever heard of the app being used on a F1 circuit!

 

[Akrapovic]

That is the first time I have ever heard of the app being used on a F1 circuit!

Off the back of this, we had a question. The GPS poll intervals - can these be increased? Or is this watchOS dependent? Because if they could be increased it'd actually be a very useful tool.

 

[cfc]

Off the back of this, we had a question. The GPS poll intervals - can these be increased? Or is this watchOS dependent? Because if they could be increased it'd actually be a very useful tool.

As far as I know it is impossible for apps to change it from the standard frequency of 1Hz (one reading per second).

 

[Akrapovic]

That's what we expected, but thank you anyway!

That is the first time I have ever heard of the app being used on a F1 circuit!

I've actually used it on a few F1 tracks for running events. First time today in a race car!

 

[alzxjm]

Is it possible to disable VO2max estimates on a per-activity basis? The watch always registers them too low during walks but appropriately during runs.


I think Apple health performs VO2max estimates for walking, running, and hiking? So there could perhaps be a toggle for each of those three?

 

[cfc]

Is it possible to disable VO2max estimates on a per-activity basis? The watch always registers them too low during walks but appropriately during runs.


I think Apple health performs VO2max estimates for walking, running, and hiking? So there could perhaps be a toggle for each of those three?

Not that I know of but if there is then it would be in Apple's settings. WOD doesn't specifically do anything with VO2 max - it just saves the workouts in Apple's Health system and iOS calculates it from there.