Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[cfc]

Ian, have you considering implementing fit files ?
stryd have a lot run data and fit. could be better for this.

It's on my list for some time in the future. After I have integrated the power metrics throughout the app then I will look into importing interval workouts (which often use power). The most common format for that is FIT so I will probably look at it then. If that goes well then I will also look at FIT for exporting workout data as well.

So it is a way down the line at the moment, but it is in my plans.

 

[spencernewton]

Hi, Ian!

We've emailed before but I figured I'd post here in case there was any update, but has Apple released the API to include minimum and maximum elevation in the Fitness app? I know you were hopeful that could come in WatchOS 7, but my last hike with WorkOutDoors was in October and it hadn't been implemented yet in the summary page for that hike in Fitness, and haven't had the chance to hike since (although hopefully will be using it this weekend!)

Now that I look at it, I'm also noticing that my hikes recorded with WorkOutDoors now don't show Elevation Gain at all, as the Watch Hiking workouts do. Again it's been a while since I last ran a hike with WorkOutDoors, and I know 4.3 has been out for about a month or so now. Has this been reimplemented?

Glad to see the other improvements in the release change-log, looking forward to using it more going forward again as the weather gets nicer and nicer!

 

[cfc]

Hi, Ian!

We've emailed before but I figured I'd post here in case there was any update, but has Apple released the API to include minimum and maximum elevation in the Fitness app? I know you were hopeful that could come in WatchOS 7, but my last hike with WorkOutDoors was in October and it hadn't been implemented yet in the summary page for that hike in Fitness, and haven't had the chance to hike since (although hopefully will be using it this weekend!)

Now that I look at it, I'm also noticing that my hikes recorded with WorkOutDoors now don't show Elevation Gain at all, as the Watch Hiking workouts do. Again it's been a while since I last ran a hike with WorkOutDoors, and I know 4.3 has been out for about a month or so now. Has this been reimplemented?

Glad to see the other improvements in the release change-log, looking forward to using it more going forward again as the weather gets nicer and nicer!

Unfortunately Apple haven't allowed developers to store the minimum and maximum elevations for a workout in Apple's health system, so they are only shown for workouts created by their workout app.

All outdoor workouts should show the elevation gain in the Fitness app. Have you got all the permissions enabled for WorkOutDoors? To check go to the Settings app on the iPhone and tap Privacy. The first thing to ensure is that the app has Motion & Fitness permissions because that gives access to the barometer. It is also worth checking that the app has all the Health permissions as well, just in case. Make sure to scroll down to the bottom to check all the permissions in both the read and write sections.

If it has all the permissions then try rebooting both the watch and the iPhone before next using the app. That often fixes strange problems.

Hope the weekend hike goes well!

 

[spencernewton]

Unfortunately Apple haven't allowed developers to store the minimum and maximum elevations for a workout in Apple's health system, so they are only shown for workouts created by their workout app.

All outdoor workouts should show the elevation gain in the Fitness app. Have you got all the permissions enabled for WorkOutDoors? To check go to the Settings app on the iPhone and tap Privacy. The first thing to ensure is that the app has Motion & Fitness permissions because that gives access to the barometer. It is also worth checking that the app has all the Health permissions as well, just in case. Make sure to scroll down to the bottom to check all the permissions in both the read and write sections.

If it has all the permissions then try rebooting both the watch and the iPhone before next using the app. That often fixes strange problems.

Hope the weekend hike goes well!

That's a bummer, and definitely something that I hope changes in the future; I love to see a third party app be able to display everything exactly as Apple does, or even more info! But that's not your fault, only Apple's!

Yep, all permissions are good to go on my end, I'll give it a go on my next hike to see if it shows me the Elevation Gain, if I'm still having the issue I'll send you an email directly and see what can be done!

 

[Maryn]

I set up a running screen with a graphical representation of HR zones. Under this screen I would like to have information about time in current zone. I see fields that display the time in a particular zone but no field that shows the time in the current zone. Does such field exist?

 

[cfc]

I set up a running screen with a graphical representation of HR zones. Under this screen I would like to have information about time in current zone. I see fields that display the time in a particular zone but no field that shows the time in the current zone. Does such field exist?

No-one has ever asked for that before. I will add it to my to-do list. It won't be high up because the list is roughly ordered by demand, but it would be pretty easy to do so it may be added sooner than most rare requests.

 

[Maryn]

Thank you. Such field for sure is existing as an integrated part of zone graphs in Suunto and in Polar watches.

 

[DontGetTheCheese]

Ran a couple of time recently with intervals, long complicated ones, and no audio drops, much, much better.

One thing that would be nice is nested repeats. I do sets, that include rests after the set and the lack of nesting means I have to repeat the set in the interface, because the initial set already has a repeat. For example, 4x run, 4x recovery, 1 minute long recovery, repeat the prior schedule x number of times.

I couldn’t just say thank you.

 

[cfc]

Ran a couple of time recently with intervals, long complicated ones, and no audio drops, much, much better.

One thing that would be nice is nested repeats. I do sets, that include rests after the set and the lack of nesting means I have to repeat the set in the interface, because the initial set already has a repeat. For example, 4x run, 4x recovery, 1 minute long recovery, repeat the prior schedule x number of times.

I couldn’t just say thank you.

I will probably allow nested repeat loops in the future, but it isn't on my radar at the moment. Sorry about that.

Glad you are enjoying the app!

 

[noel18]

@cfc, I've been using the app now for about 6 months and have a few wishes listed in order of preference.

1: When doing races it would be nice to be able to start a run with the two side buttons. So maybe start in a paused state which would keep the GPS locked and active (maybe this would even pre-lock the HR?) even if our wrist is down. My current race day routine is to launch the app and do an Open Workout (the one with the big green button) and then constantly lift my wrist to make sure the watch doesn't sleep (kind of a pain). Then when the gun goes off I hold my finger on the green button as I work my way to the starting line and then release my finger as I cross. It's kind of awkward. I've only done 2 races since owning the watch and so far this routine hasn't failed me yet but I suspect it will eventually. I could see me holding my finger on the big green button and then the watch sleeping before I lift and then when I do lift it doesn't really start and I don't notice until a mile into the race.

2: On my Garmin I had a widget named Race Screen that let you pick a race distance and time and it would tell you if you were ahead or behind. It also calibrated the distance when you hit the lap button as you passed official mile markers. So this is sort of two wishes in one.

3: Log the battery level as you run or at least at the start and finish. It would give us tools for deciding how much battery is consumed on our runs depending on what settings we are using. This isn't much of a priority for me. I can only see it being useful for when someone just gets the watch and is trying to get a feel for how well the battery lasts. I've been screenshotting the battery before and after to get a feel for the consumption. I could see Apple rejecting the app if this is added though. Heaven forbid people have a way to prove the battery can't outlast a Garmin. Hahaha

Anyways, thanks Ian for such an amazing product. There is no question I would not have made the move to an Apple Watch if it wasn't for WOD. I'd also be willing to pay for it yearly.

 

[user1234]

I love this app! I'm using it daily and it's such a great experience.

However, I discovered a minor issue with displaying tracks/routes on the map.

I needed to draw a straight line on the map between two coordinates. No problem I thought. I'll create a track in Garmin Basecamp, export it to GPX and import it as a route to WorkOutDoors. I was surprised to see that when imported to WorkOutDoors the line wasn't straight anymore. I recreated the issue with coordinates I'm comfortable sharing here, and took a few screenshots. The workaround was to use my Garmin eTrex device instead.

Being a bit of a map nerd I'd like to be able to use WorkOutDoors for this sort of thing (and more, but it's a workout app so I understand why advanced map features isn't the number 1 priority). I'd gladly pay a resonable subscription fee for topographic OSM maps though, and wouldn't mind features such as sight and go (point in a direction, input a distance, get a straight line from current location to a point at that direction and distance), show a circle around a waypoint with a selected radius, POI, save current location as waypoint, select a point on the map and set as route destination, routable bicycle maps and stuff even though I'm not expecting any of it to happen except maybe for topo maps. Yes, I do have some Garmin Fenix envy when it comes to maps ?

I'd also like to add that this app has helped me get a better sense of cities and locations I have visited thanks to the map and being able to see where I am in relation to things. I have several times noticed that some location I was interested in was just around the corner, and without this app and its map I would have missed it. Being able to load custom POIs in advance would be even better, but I'm still very happy with the app as it is now.


The track in Garmin Basecamp:


The two waypoints in the track:


The track displayed in the WorkOutDoors iPhone app:


The track displayed on the watch:

 

[cfc]

@cfc, I've been using the app now for about 6 months and have a few wishes listed in order of preference.

1: When doing races it would be nice to be able to start a run with the two side buttons. So maybe start in a paused state which would keep the GPS locked and active (maybe this would even pre-lock the HR?) even if our wrist is down. My current race day routine is to launch the app and do an Open Workout (the one with the big green button) and then constantly lift my wrist to make sure the watch doesn't sleep (kind of a pain). Then when the gun goes off I hold my finger on the green button as I work my way to the starting line and then release my finger as I cross. It's kind of awkward. I've only done 2 races since owning the watch and so far this routine hasn't failed me yet but I suspect it will eventually. I could see me holding my finger on the big green button and then the watch sleeping before I lift and then when I do lift it doesn't really start and I don't notice until a mile into the race.

2: On my Garmin I had a widget named Race Screen that let you pick a race distance and time and it would tell you if you were ahead or behind. It also calibrated the distance when you hit the lap button as you passed official mile markers. So this is sort of two wishes in one.

3: Log the battery level as you run or at least at the start and finish. It would give us tools for deciding how much battery is consumed on our runs depending on what settings we are using. This isn't much of a priority for me. I can only see it being useful for when someone just gets the watch and is trying to get a feel for how well the battery lasts. I've been screenshotting the battery before and after to get a feel for the consumption. I could see Apple rejecting the app if this is added though. Heaven forbid people have a way to prove the battery can't outlast a Garmin. Hahaha

Anyways, thanks Ian for such an amazing product. There is no question I would not have made the move to an Apple Watch if it wasn't for WOD. I'd also be willing to pay for it yearly.

Many thanks for the detailed feedback. I will have a think about how to improve the start procedure for a race. An option to start in a paused state sounds a good idea. The side buttons already resume by default, and generate haptic feedback so that you know it has resumed, so that would fit with what you want. I am tempted to add a "Start Paused" switch on the Open Workout screen, maybe above the "Countdown" switch.

You can specify a target pace and display metrics that show how far ahead/behind you are. Maybe I need to also allow that target pace to be specified in terms of a distance and a time. Distance calibration is on my to-do list for the future but hasn't been requested for a while so isn't high on the list.

The trouble with relying on previous battery usage is that it can vary massively depending on what the watch is doing, often when the user doesn't realise. Sometimes watchOS can be busy (especially after an update); sometimes files are being transferred in the background (e.g. by Apple's Podcast app); and sometimes another app can go rogue. So I probably won't be increasing the battery analysis.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[cfc]

I love this app! I'm using it daily and it's such a great experience.

However, I discovered a minor issue with displaying tracks/routes on the map.

I needed to draw a straight line on the map between two coordinates. No problem I thought. I'll create a track in Garmin Basecamp, export it to GPX and import it as a route to WorkOutDoors. I was surprised to see that when imported to WorkOutDoors the line wasn't straight anymore. I recreated the issue with coordinates I'm comfortable sharing here, and took a few screenshots. The workaround was to use my Garmin eTrex device instead.

Being a bit of a map nerd I'd like to be able to use WorkOutDoors for this sort of thing (and more, but it's a workout app so I understand why advanced map features isn't the number 1 priority). I'd gladly pay a resonable subscription fee for topographic OSM maps though, and wouldn't mind features such as sight and go (point in a direction, input a distance, get a straight line from current location to a point at that direction and distance), show a circle around a waypoint with a selected radius, POI, save current location as waypoint, select a point on the map and set as route destination, routable bicycle maps and stuff even though I'm not expecting any of it to happen except maybe for topo maps. Yes, I do have some Garmin Fenix envy when it comes to maps ?

I'd also like to add that this app has helped me get a better sense of cities and locations I have visited thanks to the map and being able to see where I am in relation to things. I have several times noticed that some location I was interested in was just around the corner, and without this app and its map I would have missed it. Being able to load custom POIs in advance would be even better, but I'm still very happy with the app as it is now.


The track in Garmin Basecamp:
View attachment 1749324

The two waypoints in the track:

View attachment 1749325
The track displayed in the WorkOutDoors iPhone app:
View attachment 1749326

The track displayed on the watch:
View attachment 1749327

That is strange. I have never seen that before. I plan to rewrite the route functionality in the version after next so I will investigate it then, along with some of the other features that you request.

Topographic maps are looking more likely. I am working on them in the background whilst I focus on Stryd, so they may be in the next version, depending on how things go.

Glad you find the app useful!

 

[Maryn]

Is there a difference in accuracy (distance, pace) AW stock app vs WOD? Stock app tends to smooth out the track. I wonder if it is a matter of the GPS frequency not being equal (e.g. not every 1s. but depending on the situation). In the case of the WOD, I did not notice such an action. Do these smoothings for the default application affect accuracy?

[AW SE]

 

[cfc]

Is there a difference in accuracy AW stock app vs WOD? Stock app tends to smooth out the track. I wonder if it is a matter of the GPS frequency not being equal (e.g. not every 1s. but depending on the situation). In the case of the WOD, I did not notice such an action. Do these smoothings for the default application affect accuracy?

[AW SE]

Do you mean the accuracy of the distance values? Both apps use Apple's calibrated distance estimates by default, which are based on the pedometer rather than GPS, so they should be exactly the same. The stock app smooths the route shown but that is just cosmetic and doesn't affect the distance calculations.

WorkOutDoors also has the option to calculate distances using the GPS instead of the pedometer, so you can choose what suits you best.

 

[Zorori]

It's on my list for some time in the future. After I have integrated the power metrics throughout the app then I will look into importing interval workouts (which often use power). The most common format for that is FIT so I will probably look at it then. If that goes well then I will also look at FIT for exporting workout data as well.

So it is a way down the line at the moment, but it is in my plans.

Always good to hear Stryd support will one day happen

Once you add Stryd support, I can't see myself using anything else. At the moment I keep WOD on my watch just incase I need the offline map!

 

[Maryn]

Do you mean the accuracy of the distance values? Both apps use Apple's calibrated distance estimates by default, which are based on the pedometer rather than GPS, so they should be exactly the same. The stock app smooths the route shown but that is just cosmetic and doesn't affect the distance calculations.

WorkOutDoors also has the option to calculate distances using the GPS instead of the pedometer, so you can choose what suits you best.

Yes, distance accuracy. Thanks for the clarification.
What you recommend? What do you think should be more accurate. As we know the distance after GPS points can be smashed and depends on weather conditions. In fact, I was hoping that apple somehow combines the GPS data with that from the accelerometer to determine the distance.

 

[cfc]

Yes, distance accuracy. Thanks for the clarification.
What you recommend? What do you think should be more accurate. As we know the distance after GPS points can be smashed and depends on weather conditions. In fact, I was hoping that apple somehow combines the GPS data with that from the accelerometer to determine the distance.

Apple do not reveal exactly how they calculate their distance estimates (they never reveal that sort of detail) but their article on calibrating them implies that they at least involve the pedometer because it mentions running for 20 minutes with a good GPS signal so that it can determine the stride length. It could be that they use other sensors as well, including the GPS, gyroscope etc, but I think the pedometer is the main sensor used for their distance estimates.

In any case WorkOutDoors uses exactly the same values by default, and I recommend using them. I only recommend using the GPS distances option if Apple's distances don't seem to work for you. And before resorting to them it is definitely worth calibrating the watch as described here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516

If your distances seem very wrong then it could be that you have used the watch for something other than running but told it that you are running. For example I have heard of people skateboarding or nordic skiing but using a running app to track it (or the running activity of any general workout app). This can confuse watchOS into thinking you have an abnormal running stride length and affect the distances when you do actually run.

In fact it is this phenomenon that makes me think that the pedometer is the key sensor that Apple uses even when GPS is available. If it were using GPS then the incorrect stride length would not have such a large effect.

 

[involuntarheely]

@cfc Hey! I am trying to setup auto-pause sensitivity on WOD but I don't understand how it works.

For example, on my bike computer there is a single setting "auto pause when GPS speed is below X".
How do I replicate that with WOD?

specifically, assuming I want auto-pause and auto-resume with the same "threshold speed"
- does increasing "speed sensitivity" increase or decrease the threshold speed at which recording is paused?
- what's the meaning of "time sensitivity"?

thanks!

 

[cfc]

@cfc Hey! I am trying to setup auto-pause sensitivity on WOD but I don't understand how it works.

For example, on my bike computer there is a single setting "auto pause when GPS speed is below X".
How do I replicate that with WOD?

specifically, assuming I want auto-pause and auto-resume with the same "threshold speed"
- does increasing "speed sensitivity" increase or decrease the threshold speed at which recording is paused?
- what's the meaning of "time sensitivity"?

thanks!

The auto-pause algorithm checks if the user has been moving for less than a threshold speed for longer than a threshold time. The two sliders control the sensitivity. So if you increase the speed slider then it becomes more sensitive (the threshold speed goes up), and if you increase the time slider then it also becomes more sensitive (the threshold time goes down). The resume algorithm works in a similar way.

The algorithm is not designed to detect when you go slowly. Instead it is designed to detect when you have stopped, so the threshold speeds are of the order of 0.1m/s or 0.2m/s. GPS is not really accurate enough to show these values to the user, which is why it uses sliders. It is also only designed for brief pauses (traffic lights etc). If you are pausing for longer than that then it is best to pause manually.

I hope that explains it? It is not perfect because GPS is not perfect, which is probably why Apple only offer it for running, where they can use the pedometer. I figure that it is better than nothing and generally works well if your GPS signal is good.

I keep hoping that Apple will extend their algorithm to other activities and take into account other sensors like the accelerometer, gyroscope etc. That sort of complexity is beyond the scope of WOD at the moment, but maybe one day if Apple don't do it first (which I hope they will!).

 

[Maryn]

Is it possible to choose in app to use always internal AW GPS?
Currently the only solution to have notifications displayed during activity with AW's internal GPS is to include LTE data. Every time you connect to BT it will switch to Iphone GPS.

 

[cfc]

Is it possible to choose in app to use always internal AW GPS?
Currently the only solution to have notifications displayed during activity with AW's internal GPS is to include LTE data. Every time you connect to BT it will switch to Iphone GPS.

Unfortunately watchOS doesn't allow apps to choose to use the watch GPS. If the iPhone is connected then it will automatically use the iPhone GPS. It is very annoying!

 

[TheMixam]

Is it possible to choose in app to use always internal AW GPS?
Currently the only solution to have notifications displayed during activity with AW's internal GPS is to include LTE data. Every time you connect to BT it will switch to Iphone GPS.

Unfortunately watchOS doesn't allow apps to choose to use the watch GPS. If the iPhone is connected then it will automatically use the iPhone GPS. It is very annoying!

So let’s think solutions: disable Bluetooth on the iPhone or on the watch?

 

[Maryn]

So let’s think solutions: disable Bluetooth on the iPhone or on the watch?

disconnecting BT will interrupt the receipt of notifications ;/

 

[TheMixam]

(Temporarily) disable location services system-wide on the iPhone?