All Devices WOW iOS 13 is a total letdown

[gwhizkids]

iPadOS for the win, but we should just be able to run MacOS on the 2019 iPad Pro, it's plenty powerful enough.

But why would you want to? Its not touch optimiized so you wouuld lose that capability. If you want MacOS in a slim form factor, then I'd go with the (less expensive) MacBook Air.

 

[topdownjimmy]

Will Apple require the "Sign In with Apple" for any app that also uses the "Sign in with Google" or "Sign in with Facebook"?

Yes, they are requiring this:

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/06/03/sign-in-with-apple-required-as-sign-in-option/

 

[aevan]

On the flip side, Android is my main phone (iPhone is my work phone).
I have seen nothing at this time that says “come to an iPhone”.

Hey it’s cool, you like what you like, and frankly, if you prefer Android to iOS, I don’t see anything one could realistically expect that could change that. For me, everything about iOS says “come to an iPhone” compared to Android and iOS 13 only pushes that further. But that’s me. People have different tastes and needs, but don’t expect iOS 14, 15 or 16 to make you want to switch either.
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iPadOS for the win, but we should just be able to run MacOS on the 2019 iPad Pro, it's plenty powerful enough.

We could, but it would offer a worse tablet experience. What you want is called “a Mac”.

 

[Yourt]

Did we watch the same keynote?

1. Street View in Apple Maps with clickable stores when "virtual walking" a street.
2. Apps launching 2X faster, App download sizes smaller
3. swipe typing natively on the keyboard
4. location services privacy
5. Sign in with Apple over google/facebook that creates a random e-mail address to register you for a app/service that you can delete later.
6. more intuitive photo editing, video rotation and filters
7. live radio listening.
8. Siri sounding more natural
9. Airpods reading back messages and going into listening mode if you have them in your ear
10. Bluetooth sharing.

Your take away was Dark mode? funny because that's the feature I care for the least.

So you mention iOS features, but there are some more anouncements I like:
11. USB (direct) access into files on external sticks and all
12. Files app
13. Reminders edited
14. Health app (euh... for women only that is)
15. Encrypted camera security
16. Router security
17. 2nd screen mode (wired or wireless)
18. New gestures
19. side-by-side apps / windowed apps
20. App store for Watch
21. Find my... expansion
22. iCloud folder sharing

 

[dk001]

Hey it’s cool, you like what you like, and frankly, if you prefer Android to iOS, I don’t see anything one could realistically expect that could change that. For me, everything about iOS says “come to an iPhone” compared to Android and iOS 13 only pushes that further. But that’s me. People have different tastes and needs, but don’t expect iOS 14, 15 or 16 to make you want to switch either...

Was iOS till 11. Then with the issues I had too many not to look at Andriod. Did a major 30 day comparison between the 8+, X, and Razer. Switched.
Had hope for 12 - was decent but the same issue existed.
Was looking forward to 13 as more than a minor evolutionary step forward. Have to wait and see however based on the keynote, not evolutionary enough and no indication on the issues that impact me to get me to come back.

 

[Armen]

Good post. You obviously took some time to illustrate your point.

Google maps has pretty good eta implementation with a live, updated view of the traveler in the app.
[doublepost=1559758034][/doublepost]
I don’t understand this. Why are you acting as if he or anyone who posts cares about how big their thread gets? Talk about childish.

Apple Maps has a deep integration in iOS so the more features they add to it the

So you mention iOS features, but there are some more anouncements I like:
11. USB (direct) access into files on external sticks and all
12. Files app
13. Reminders edited
14. Health app (euh... for women only that is)
15. Encrypted camera security
16. Router security
17. 2nd screen mode (wired or wireless)
18. New gestures
19. side-by-side apps / windowed apps
20. App store for Watch
21. Find my... expansion
22. iCloud folder sharing

I didn't want to get that deep into it but thanks for adding

 

[twinlight]

I saw that Calculator comes to watchOS. Is it finally coming to iPad?

 

[AbSoluTc]

Really don't understand why some people stay on iPhone just because they need iMessage. I thought that too before I switched to Samsung and simply installed WhatsApp. Problem solved instantly.

No problem was solved. More problems were created. You are now on a platform that has 0 transparency when it comes to privacy. You also had to go get an app to send messages.

On iPhone, it comes standard. I don't have to go get an app to message. It has the best one built in. Best of all, end to end encryption when it's iMessage. No snooping, no 3rd party doing nefarious data mining. It's not owned by Facebook or any other entity that's out to get my data. Does Apple want my money? Sure. I will be happy to pay them knowing I am not a product.

Google and others, not so much. You can say what you want to help yourself sleep at night but when you have to dig around on your phone to find things to turn off to guard your privacy, there's a problem. When you CAN'T remove an app because you're not allowed and it stays running, there's a problem.

Personally, I despise Google, Facebook and WhatsApp. Anything owned and provided by them, I either don't use or limit my use of those items. I don't want them on my phone, computer or even an account. I will stick with Apple. I like iCloud and all my stuff synced, backed up, talking to all my devices without issue. I like CLEARLY seeing what's taking place on my phone, not having to hunt for stuff. Not having 5 context menus to do 1 thing (android). I don't need widgets on my home screen. I don't need a custom launcher. I like not having bloat and other crap.

To each their own. Pick what works for you.

 

[/\ppleDude]

I agree. I came to the forums to see if anyone else agreed and I guess so. The home screen needs a refresh for sure. I really think they have no idea where to go from here with the home screen.

They are doing big things for iPad though.
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If you’re disappointed about iOS 13 then I feel sorry for you. It is a massive update for everyone.

They could have done all that they released and still refreshed the home screen. I’m by no means switching due to this or pretending their are better options, but it’s time for a refresh. (And that was what was spoken about through the past two years, that iOS12 was going to be the “big refresh” and then it got pushed back to 13). Rumors are rumors, but still. I just think they have no idea where to go from the stale columned app home screen.

 

[Shirasaki]

Bunch of kids here, they don't know anything about old ios-iphone-apple days, and they think ios 13 is great.
Great? i really wonder what u'd say on 2010-2013 days.

It's a total disaster.

What you compare is like comparing a 14 year old teen with a 35 year old adult. iOS right now is that 35 year old adult. Can do a lot of stuff already, though still have room for some improvements, however small it is.

My phone's there to make my life easier.

Yes. Tech should be the extension for human to complete tasks more efficiently, not toying human around with shiny useless things like a fancier home screen.

I'm determined to enjoy this beta cycle at MR and definitely not respond to the 14527th "Daily Driver" thread that will be posted over the coming months

Not gonna be bothered about that either. There are more critical stuff than asking “whether this iOS is good enough for daily driver or not”. If they ever wonder this, maybe beta is not for them.

 

[mbeckman16]

And the cycle of disappointed critics who think the newest version of iOS would fix everything they wanted continues!!

I think the frustration comes in is because Android has leapfrogged iOS.

Example with voice assistants:
Siri - sounds a little better
Google Assistant - Can understand those that have speech challenges, better continued conversations, smarter responses, etc.

 

[lparsons21]

I think the frustration comes in is because Android has leapfrogged iOS.

I don’t know about that. Android Pie the latest version on about 10% of Android products. So you might say that it leapfrogs iOS though I don’t agree. But the vast majority of Android users are on older versions. There are even brand new Android products coming out with Version 6 which, if you are counting, is 3 versions old.

I’ve got some Android stuff here and some iOS stuff too. Overall I’ll take iOS for the win!

 

[CTHarrryH]

From a new member since 2 or 3 months, your comment is pretty funny. People have the rights to express their opinions. Don’t act like you’re smarter than us.

If you have only been here 3 months you don’t realize other than saying 13 vs 12 vs 11 etc. the same comments are written every year. Yes people have right to speak their own opinions but they are the same every year.
The looks of ICONS is more important yo many than functionality. Stick around same posts next year

 

[Shirasaki]

Agree. The narrative got out there just before iOS 12 launched that many features would be deferred to iOS 13 which would be a big update. I think that morphed to an iOS 7-like large visual refresh.

In my mind, iOS 13 is, in many respects, more groundbreaking than iOS 7 was. iOS 7 reflected the maturation of design and “growing up” of iOS and, more importantly, the user base. Users no longer needed to be presented with skeuomorphic/lifelike representations of electronic tools in order to recognize their parallels to their physical equivalents.

Think of it as the equivalent of moving from pre-school/primary school to middle school / high school. In the former, students learn the use of tools (the alphabet, numbers, etc...). In the latter they learn how to apply the tools. With skeuomorphism, smartphone users learned how to equate electronic GUI elements with their functional physical equivalent. In the post-skeumorphic era, they no longer needed the training wheels and could recognize the electronic tools in their own right.

Now, we have reached the digital equivalent of college, where tools are no longer there to be learned or applied in a rudimentary way. Now, for those who care to use them, the tools are there to actually create new experiences. Shortcuts, for example. The exterior changes are much more subtle to the outside viewer (much like a high schooler moving on to college doesn’t appear to change much physically) but the interior changes are profound. iPadOS, in particular, reflects this, with its new emphasis on content-creation rather than simply consumption.

To leave the education analogy, the more subtle but substantial changes in iOS 13 also reflects the maturation of smart devices overall and the place of the players in that market.

The innovation curve has flattened nearly asymptotically simply because that’s how development of any technology proceeds. Books (yes, a form of technology) have not changed much since Gutenberg because they met the needs of the user and there were not many fundamental outward changes that could improve upon them. Similarly here: the low hanging fruit was gathered in the heady era of 2007 to, say, 2011 or so. After that, the pace of change has been much more measured, more in the nature of tweaks than radical change. Even Dark Mode is just window-dressing, although a highly desired change.

Bottom line (for those who’ve bothered to read this far!) is that the technology has matured and we’re just not going to see huge visual changes going forward. Apple has chosen to take a conservative path here (and its hard to argue with their choices given where it has propelled them - from a failing boutique personal computer maker to the most dominant business enterprise in the world) and Google has chosen a more open, adaptable yet hard to adopt environment. It is hard to argue with their choices, as well, given the numerical preponderance of their users. Each presents its own advantages to its user base and each caters to the average user mindset in that user base.

At the end of the day: pick Apple if you want consistency and predictability. Pick Android if you want more customizability.

Well said. Like you.

OP if had some time should read this.

iOS can do so many things now. Back in iOS 1 day, copy/paste was not even possible. How basic that was?

And I use a similar age analogy a while ago in another thread.

OP got his big thread, if not the level of support he may have been seeking.

Don’t see any more of his posts. Seems like something. Though I don’t think he cares about how big his thread could be. It is mostly a constructive thread however, which is good.

Operating system updates shouldn't be sexy or flashy. They should feature:
1) Usablity for everyone - changing the UI dramatically will result in a lot of frustrated users,
2) Improvements to security & performance - just look at the mess over on the Android side with apps crippling phones with adware,
3) Feature improvements and enhancements - add features as technology, security, and reliability allow

Once you realize that keeping the status quo is preferrable over breaking and confusing things, you won't be disappointed by any software updates. Come on, Android hasn't added anything dramatic either, and it takes years for updates to land on all phones. Look what happened when Windows rethought their design (Windows 8)!

Y'all need some chill. Apple isn't going to be flashy here - they have to maintain solid, usable software.

Selective ignore or tunnel vision. Human nature. Not gonna complain about this, but it shows something.

And yes, stability and usability is the king. I have paused windows update for as long as I can and I have escaped windows 10 October update disaster with no data loss.

Well said. I can’t agree more.

It’s a pity there isn’t a thumbs down button or a troll tag for posts like this!

There was one, but was removed. I forgot the reason though, probably to not let people get upset too much or something.

I'm ok with people venting, as long as its respectful. Everyone has their own set of expectations. Some more realistic than others. But its ok to have aspirations.

Where its not ok is when it devolves into "Apple is stupid"; "people who like X are stupid" and the like. Apple is a company with vast but finite resources, the 2 most constrained of which are humans with the skill to work on this and time. The first is limited by the pool of qualified software engineers and the second is absolutely constrained. Add to this, Apple's rational desire to save some features for the future. So, they are not stupid and users are not stupid for thinking that the features rolled out this week are good in and of themselves, even if some preferred feature was not implemented or did not make the cut.

Yeah, I did not realise this point. Thanks for enlightening me.

And you have a nice collection of posts regarding this today. If you can collect those and put it in a thread, it would be fantastic. Just saying.

Why change what works for 89% percent of users. Not many really care about design and icons, they want to click and go. It's about what the device does or the app does, not what it looks like, that would count for about 5% of most users honestly.

Yes. And I have seen some iPhone users in the wild still using iOS 9 or 10. They don’t even care about iOS 12, let alone 13. They just download their apps and done. The moment they update their system is probably when their apps need to drop support for their iOS version. But I see no problems here. Not at all.

 

[gwhizkids]

And you have a nice collection of posts regarding this today. If you can collect those and put it in a thread, it would be fantastic. Just saying.

That is very kind of you. Thank you.

I was actually thinking of editing them and submitting them free lance to one of the tech blogs. I feel very strongly about being grateful for the features we did get (which were plentiful ) and the future of mobile computing, in general. I am not about gimmicks and transient things. I am more interested in the overall architecture and direction we are going, which I see as more intent based and less app-centric.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I think the frustration comes in is because Android has leapfrogged iOS.

Example with voice assistants:
Siri - sounds a little better
Google Assistant - Can understand those that have speech challenges, better continued conversations, smarter responses, etc.

Disagree. New features that don't really deliver is NOT "leapfrogging" anything.

 

[mbeckman16]

I don’t know about that. Android Pie the latest version on about 10% of Android products. So you might say that it leapfrogs iOS though I don’t agree. But the vast majority of Android users are on older versions. There are even brand new Android products coming out with Version 6 which, if you are counting, is 3 versions old.

I’ve got some Android stuff here and some iOS stuff too. Overall I’ll take iOS for the win!

Due to Android being an open operating system and not closed like Apple that is going to happen. I would be interested in comparing install rates for Pixel only phones vs iPhones. That's more apples to apples.

Also, I was comparing features of operating systems vs. install rates. Android has better maps, virtual assistant, email, photos app, Drive, etc. I have had iPhones for years but plan to give Android a try if they come out with a compatible watch.

Are there any apps that apple has that are better than Android?
[doublepost=1559776106][/doublepost]

Disagree. New features that don't really deliver is NOT "leapfrogging" anything.

So your saying that the upgrades to Google Assistant and maps won't be on the pixel 4? Pretty sure they will be.

What apps does apple do better than Android? Apple is catching up to Android these days.

 

[Shirasaki]

That is very kind of you. Thank you.

I was actually thinking of editing them and submitting them free lance to one of the tech blogs. I feel very strongly about being grateful for the features we did get (which were plentiful ) and the future of mobile computing, in general. I am not about gimmicks and transient things. I am more interested in the overall architecture and direction we are going, which I see as more intent based and less app-centric.

Do PM me a link when you are ready. I want to get some serious refresh every now and then, otherwise I feel my view is obstructed.

Recommend a book called “Team Human” by Douglas Rushkof. Nice book exploring the link between human and tech.
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=1397987309

 

[ZEEN0j]

I think the frustration comes in is because Android has leapfrogged iOS.

Example with voice assistants:
Siri - sounds a little better
Google Assistant - Can understand those that have speech challenges, better continued conversations, smarter responses, etc.

Google assistant sounds great and google is making huge progress in understanding the human voice. Yet, what can it actually do? Sure it can answer some fun question or looking up info, automated calls etc. Also, it’s not even available on a large amount of devices.

Apple on the other hand is building a huge foundation right now where the biggest and most time consuming work is being done right now. Getting app developers apps ready for actual complete voice control of everything. Just compare Siri shortcuts last year to now. Imagine one more year where apps add even more intents that can pull up more options for the user. In the mean time Apple is working, mind you not as fast as google on creating a better understanding Siri.

Just imagine a future where these complex shortcuts we are manually creating now are instead created dynamically by Siri at the right time. This is only possible if apps provide this data with intents. Or just telling Siri a multistep command and it just works.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Are there any apps that apple has that are better than Android?
[doublepost=1559776106][/doublepost]

So your saying that the upgrades to Google Assistant and maps won't be on the pixel 4? Pretty sure they will be.

What apps does apple do better than Android? Apple is catching up to Android these days.

Where did I say that these 'features' would not be be on any device... The point that I was making is simply that just because they were 'first' with something (app/idea/hardware) doesn't mean that they are better. Apple typically takes its time to incorporate things and get them right... Things like the folding screen fiasco is the perfect example... in that case, first = a massive flop. Almost all technological advances are incremental... and I stand by my point that being first to market with a feature that fails to deliver is not a "win" in anyone's book.

#androidOn

 

[SoYoung]

Sure people have the right to express their opinions but every year there's a thread like this and then when the new iphone comes you get the 'iPhone something is a total letdown' thread. People always have something to complain, it could be the best software/hardware ever and people still will make a thread about how it's a total letdown.
[doublepost=1559741546][/doublepost]

Here's an article about how that google secretary 'feature' is working a year after they've launched it and it was only launched for restaurant reservations and hasn't been updated for anything more as of right now.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/22/...uman-callers-25-percent-ai-restaurant-booking

I understand your point, but in my opinion nothing is perfect. I agree some topic title are a little exaggerate but from my perspective and for other ones, iOS 13 not delivers our expectations. Some things are just missing and some aren't as polished as we thought. I don't like the exact opposite of people as well when everything is so perfect and praise everything, those people are not very objective as well IMO.

 

[lparsons21]

Due to Android being an open operating system and not closed like Apple that is going to happen. I would be interested in comparing install rates for Pixel only phones vs iPhones. That's more apples to apples.

Also, I was comparing features of operating systems vs. install rates. Android has better maps, virtual assistant, email, photos app, Drive, etc. I have had iPhones for years but plan to give Android a try if they come out with a compatible watch.

Are there any apps that apple has that are better than Android?

You can’t separate out one phone mfg to make the comparison. The market isn’t Apple vs Pixel, it is Apple vs Android. The reason that Android doesn’t get the updates on the majority of their gear starts at the beginning. Google wanted to compete with Apple in the phone space and they made doing Android versions of phones very easy and the rules were and still are, fairly loose.

As to apps, well I can only give my subjective opinion. In nearly every case where an app exists on both iOS and Android, the iOS version is better looking in every way, works better and smoother and is very often more fully featured. As to the apps from Apple vs Google, I’ll give you maps but only by a little bit. In ebook apps iOS versions are just hands down better. To me photos are a wash, I don’t find anything compelling to make me want one over the other.

Yeah, Android has some features that I’d like to see on iOS, but the reverse is also true.

BTW, in the part of your post I saw you were wanting a watch for Android. There are a few and I’ve seen mixed reviews with more positives than negatives. But I don’t think it is realistic to expect an Android phone that will do all an Apple Watch can.

 

[mbeckman16]

Google assistant sounds great and google is making huge progress in understanding the human voice. Yet, what can it actually do? Sure it can answer some fun question or looking up info, automated calls etc. Also, it’s not even available on a large amount of devices.

Apple on the other hand is building a huge foundation right now where the biggest and most time consuming work is being done right now. Getting app developers apps ready for actual complete voice control of everything. Just compare Siri shortcuts last year to now. Imagine one more year where apps add even more intents that can pull up more options for the user. In the mean time Apple is working, mind you not as fast as google on creating a better understanding Siri.

Just imagine a future where these complex shortcuts we are manually creating now are instead created dynamically by Siri at the right time. This is only possible if apps provide this data with intents. Or just telling Siri a multistep command and it just works.

From what I remember hearing, Assistant is on more devices than Apple. Combo of phones and their home products. I could be wrong.

I use my Google home devices quite a bit and they are quite helpful with getting the information I need (watching news updates, directions, info on stores/restaurants, plays my Spotify playlist) so I would say a lot more than fun questions. Additionally, Google Assistant is connected to more home devices vs homekit which is nice.

Honestly I don't use shortcuts due to the manual process but I could be missing an opportunity.
[doublepost=1559785170][/doublepost]

You can’t separate out one phone mfg to make the comparison. The market isn’t Apple vs Pixel, it is Apple vs Android. The reason that Android doesn’t get the updates on the majority of their gear starts at the beginning. Google wanted to compete with Apple in the phone space and they made doing Android versions of phones very easy and the rules were and still are, fairly loose.

As to apps, well I can only give my subjective opinion. In nearly every case where an app exists on both iOS and Android, the iOS version is better looking in every way, works better and smoother and is very often more fully featured. As to the apps from Apple vs Google, I’ll give you maps but only by a little bit. In ebook apps iOS versions are just hands down better. To me photos are a wash, I don’t find anything compelling to make me want one over the other.

Yeah, Android has some features that I’d like to see on iOS, but the reverse is also true.

BTW, in the part of your post I saw you were wanting a watch for Android. There are a few and I’ve seen mixed reviews with more positives than negatives. But I don’t think it is realistic to expect an Android phone that will do all an Apple Watch can.

I hear ya on the watch. Apple coming out with a streaming option is going to make the watch that much more enticing. Apps are for sure subjective. I feel Google photos is much more user friendly with the ability to search in more granular detail for photos and the automated optimizations they do (I.e. color pop, etc.) Again subjective here. I tend to use all Google apps on my iPhone.

In full transparency, I've never owned an Android phone but the pixel line is getting enticing. I'm not a Samsung guy or any other brand.

Could you share what features apple has over Android that you like? Thx
[doublepost=1559785706][/doublepost]

Where did I say that these 'features' would not be be on any device... The point that I was making is simply that just because they were 'first' with something (app/idea/hardware) doesn't mean that they are better. Apple typically takes its time to incorporate things and get them right... Things like the folding screen fiasco is the perfect example... in that case, first = a massive flop. Almost all technological advances are incremental... and I stand by my point that being first to market with a feature that fails to deliver is not a "win" in anyone's book.

#androidOn

I generalized when you stated features that never make it to market.

Agree on the folding phone but I put that on Samsung not Google.

Yes, Apple waits but they don't always get it right. Apple maps would be one, copy and paste is clunky, but it can be very subjective as well.

I feel like it's the same thing year after year and they make it sound like their software is revolutionary when other groups have done it already and have done it well. Same with hardware as in "this is the fastest iPhone we've ever made" I would hope so as it's the latest version.

 

[nrvna76]

Am I the only one thrilled that I’ll be able to switch my WiFi or Bluetooth right from control center? Such an easy change to get rid of something that frustrates me daily.

 

[AZhappyjack]

[doublepost=1559785706][/doublepost]
I generalized when you stated features that never make it to market.

Agree on the folding phone but I put that on Samsung not Google.

Yes, Apple waits but they don't always get it right. Apple maps would be one, copy and paste is clunky, but it can be very subjective as well.

I feel like it's the same thing year after year and they make it sound like their software is revolutionary when other groups have done it already and have done it well. Same with hardware as in "this is the fastest iPhone we've ever made" I would hope so as it's the latest version.

You read a lot into my "don't deliver" comment. I never said that they don't make it to market. I said that they don't deliver (on what they promise). Please don't misquote me.

The folding phone was simply an example of "first" not being "best".