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Yosemite looks terrible!
- Thread starter OldGuyTom
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It's an app that, at best, is completely unnecessary and at worst, can create serious problems for users. It has been marketed aggressively and has a terrible reputation in the Mac community. It should be avoided completely.
Apple isn't associated with MacKeeper. MacKeeper has initiated a web pop-up advertising scheme on some sites. If they're allowed to do so and the web pages analytics set up detects a Mac, it pops up a threat of some sort, usually telling you your system has a virus or it needs to be "cleaned" and then usually downloads a copy of it to your system and tells you to install it. The "free" version will usually report that problems have been found, and you need to pay them money to "fix" the (usually non-existent) problems. Then MacKeeper decides for you what is and isn't important and deletes what it decides you don't need.
A newer trick is for them to advertise that they have "free manual updates" for existing products (like Adobe) and then when you click on the link a MacKeeper ad comes up and the download begins.
Apple has nothing to do with MacKeeper.
A newer trick is for them to advertise that they have "free manual updates" for existing products (like Adobe) and then when you click on the link a MacKeeper ad comes up and the download begins.
Apple has nothing to do with MacKeeper.
See: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2927032/ads-for-mackeeper-refunds-will-run-on-facebook.html
MacKeeper refund ads will run on Facebook as part of class-action lawsuit settlement
"A sizable Internet advertising campaign is planned to alert people to a proposed class-action settlement over MacKeeper, a security program for Macs accused of deceptive practices.
MacKeeper’s developer, ZeoBit, was sued in May 2014 in U.S. District Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania. Filed on behalf of Pennsylvania resident Holly Yencha, the class-action suit alleges MacKeeper was deceptively marketed and did not fully function as advertised."
Etan
I created an account just for this - and here are my tuppence.
I have been using OS X since the late days of Leopard - my first and only Mac was the late 2007 white polycarbonate MacBook with an Intel Core 2 Duo. It came with Leopard 10.5.7. I updated it all the way to Snow Leopard 10.6.8, which, in my eyes, has and will always be the best Mac OS X that Apple has released. That Mac burned out on me before I could update it to Lion, and I moved to the hackintosh scene. I had just purchased a new Samsung notebook and installed Lion, and it ran like a charm. That notebook's now four years old and is now my sister's, and I currently have the Clevo/Sager notebook in my sig. It runs OS X Mavericks like a charm, and probably better and faster than even this year's MacBook Pros. All for less than US$1000 (as of now - I actually got it for quite a bit more). I shall add that it actually has three disk drives inside - two SSDs (one each for Windows and OS X) and one SATA HDD, as well as a 1080p screen in a 13.3" form factor.
Now, onto the topic of Yosemite itself.
My friend updated his MacBook Air to Mavericks, and he's been regretting it ever since. I have used it extensively too, and I strongly feel that Yosemite/iOS 8 have done Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall serious injustice, by moving away from so-called skeuomorphs and moving to "cleaner, brighter lines". The gradients, the glossy icons, the font - Apple ruined everything.
According to Apple's Human Interface Guidelines,
I wanted to try Yosemite on my own laptop, and installed it on an external drive to test. 1080p on a 13.3" screen already renders screen elements small - it's halfway between an ordinary screen and a true "HiDPI" screen. Yet I could see Lucida Grande very clearly at size 6 sitting fifty centimetres away from the screen. I could barely discern Yosemite's Helvetica at that distance.
Next, about the icons. The icons are ridiculously childish and sometimes even irritating. To illustrate exactly how simplistic (not simple - there's a big difference) the icons are, take Yosemite's Safari icon, for example:
I recreated this to ~90% accuracy in Adobe Illustrator in about an hour. Compare it to the intricate icon used in all previous OS X versions:
I could barely begin to think of recreating this - it was so detailed. The same applies to the iWork '09 icons, and in general, the old icon set. They had a feeling of class and professionalism that is missing in the new icon set. Who cares about gloss, faux leather and skeuomorphs? If young people remember a floppy drive as nothing but a 'save icon', then so be it - at least they associate it with saving a file. Change for the sake of change is terrible. I actually liked the Mountain Lion iCal and Contacts, with all the stitching and cool effects. No other UI had it and it didn't really distract from the content.
With Yosemite, all I see is white, white and more white. I personally preferred the neutral greys of Leopard - Mavericks. The new buttons (both toolbar and UI buttons) are a joke - they just spell flat with no life around them, not even a decent gradient. The translucency is just plain unnecessary - I don't want interactive elements to continuously change colour, like it has a case of digital schizophrenia.
I am a happy Mavericks hackintosher. Let's hope OS X 10.11 fixes some of this mess (probably not the UI - I'll have to live with it).
P.S. The latest Windows 10 build (10130) with new icons looks excellent, with a great combination of class and a look back to the old icon set:
The top row is Windows Vista/7/8/8.1, the middle row is the set of icons introduced in build 10074, and the last row is the most recent set of icons, as of build 10130. Although I like the top row the best, the last row looks clean, modern, consistent yet different enough (that isometric projection for all the icons is great), skeuomorphic and yet nice to look at. Apple should aim for this, not bright, cyan colours that burn retinas. I like the grainy dull blue folder icons used from Leopard to Mavericks. Why'd they change it and ruin it?
I have been using OS X since the late days of Leopard - my first and only Mac was the late 2007 white polycarbonate MacBook with an Intel Core 2 Duo. It came with Leopard 10.5.7. I updated it all the way to Snow Leopard 10.6.8, which, in my eyes, has and will always be the best Mac OS X that Apple has released. That Mac burned out on me before I could update it to Lion, and I moved to the hackintosh scene. I had just purchased a new Samsung notebook and installed Lion, and it ran like a charm. That notebook's now four years old and is now my sister's, and I currently have the Clevo/Sager notebook in my sig. It runs OS X Mavericks like a charm, and probably better and faster than even this year's MacBook Pros. All for less than US$1000 (as of now - I actually got it for quite a bit more). I shall add that it actually has three disk drives inside - two SSDs (one each for Windows and OS X) and one SATA HDD, as well as a 1080p screen in a 13.3" form factor.
Now, onto the topic of Yosemite itself.
My friend updated his MacBook Air to Mavericks, and he's been regretting it ever since. I have used it extensively too, and I strongly feel that Yosemite/iOS 8 have done Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall serious injustice, by moving away from so-called skeuomorphs and moving to "cleaner, brighter lines". The gradients, the glossy icons, the font - Apple ruined everything.
According to Apple's Human Interface Guidelines,
Is that meant to be some sort of joke? Helvetica is a terrible UI font - it is known fact that the best fonts for on-screen reading are monospaced, grotesque and serif fonts typically used for programming and development, such as Courier (New), Consolas, Lucida Console, Menlo, Inconsolata, Droid Sans Mono, etc. However, they won't look too neat for user interfaces, so we have to settle for second-best - boot out the monospace and serifs, but keep the grotesque/humanist look - you get something like Microsoft's Segoe UI, Ubuntu or Lucida Grande. I don't understand why Apple even decided to use Helvetica Neue as a system font at all - even on iOS. Now we have Xiaomi using Arial on MIUI (they already are ripping off Apple, why not rip off their font too?).
I wanted to try Yosemite on my own laptop, and installed it on an external drive to test. 1080p on a 13.3" screen already renders screen elements small - it's halfway between an ordinary screen and a true "HiDPI" screen. Yet I could see Lucida Grande very clearly at size 6 sitting fifty centimetres away from the screen. I could barely discern Yosemite's Helvetica at that distance.
Next, about the icons. The icons are ridiculously childish and sometimes even irritating. To illustrate exactly how simplistic (not simple - there's a big difference) the icons are, take Yosemite's Safari icon, for example:
I recreated this to ~90% accuracy in Adobe Illustrator in about an hour. Compare it to the intricate icon used in all previous OS X versions:
I could barely begin to think of recreating this - it was so detailed. The same applies to the iWork '09 icons, and in general, the old icon set. They had a feeling of class and professionalism that is missing in the new icon set. Who cares about gloss, faux leather and skeuomorphs? If young people remember a floppy drive as nothing but a 'save icon', then so be it - at least they associate it with saving a file. Change for the sake of change is terrible. I actually liked the Mountain Lion iCal and Contacts, with all the stitching and cool effects. No other UI had it and it didn't really distract from the content.
With Yosemite, all I see is white, white and more white. I personally preferred the neutral greys of Leopard - Mavericks. The new buttons (both toolbar and UI buttons) are a joke - they just spell flat with no life around them, not even a decent gradient. The translucency is just plain unnecessary - I don't want interactive elements to continuously change colour, like it has a case of digital schizophrenia.
I am a happy Mavericks hackintosher. Let's hope OS X 10.11 fixes some of this mess (probably not the UI - I'll have to live with it).
P.S. The latest Windows 10 build (10130) with new icons looks excellent, with a great combination of class and a look back to the old icon set:
The top row is Windows Vista/7/8/8.1, the middle row is the set of icons introduced in build 10074, and the last row is the most recent set of icons, as of build 10130. Although I like the top row the best, the last row looks clean, modern, consistent yet different enough (that isometric projection for all the icons is great), skeuomorphic and yet nice to look at. Apple should aim for this, not bright, cyan colours that burn retinas. I like the grainy dull blue folder icons used from Leopard to Mavericks. Why'd they change it and ruin it?
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But i's not "change for the sake of change" it's change to make the Apple ecosystem more unified. And as far as I know, stylized is not synonym of childish. Now the fact that it's not pleasing to everyone is another matter. When you say "at least they associate it with saving a file" it's funny because when I see the new safari icon, at least I associate it with safari. And that's all I need really. I don't necessarily need the most beautiful 3D rendering of a compass to know that it's safari. And the 10% missing from your version is probably the small, yet visible details that makes the real one still look better.
You created your account in 2013 and what, you just waited for the right time?
...just joking.The 10% were the drop shadows behind the compass arrows, which I forgot how to create in Illustrator. The issue is, they changed designs just because they could. They attempted to fix what wasn't broken - many others here didn't see the need to change the UI design and icons - why else are they fiddling with YosemiteRevert, Flavours 2 and whatnot? Flat UI, executed properly, is good, and is pleasing to the eye - it should not frustrate, or distract, or confuse. Speaking of which, I managed to confuse the Safari icon with the App Store icon in Yosemite. The blue they use is close enough, and remember - I have a high-resolution, small screen. The same thing could happen if someone were using one of the scaling options on the 13" rMBP. It probably already has, several times.
I flick seamlessly between Windows, Ubuntu Linux, OS X, iOS and Android with HTC Sense - so there's no need to force the idea of 'continuity' and 'unification' and force it down users' throats. Microsoft already tried it once, albeit at a much larger scale than Apple, and failed spectacularly. They are now backtracking on most decisions made for Windows 8. The only thing that remains of Metro is the Start menu in Windows 10.
You created your account in 2013 and what, you just waited for the right time?
Correction - I attempted to create an account, was told that I already had done so, and then spent several minutes trying to remember my password. I may as well have "just created an account" since I never used it until now.
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I created an account just for this - and here are my tuppence.
I have been using OS X since the late days of Leopard - my first and only Mac was the late 2007 white polycarbonate MacBook with an Intel Core 2 Duo. It came with Leopard 10.5.7. I updated it all the way to Snow Leopard 10.6.8, which, in my eyes, has and will always be the best Mac OS X that Apple has released. That Mac burned out on me before I could update it to Lion, and I moved to the hackintosh scene. I had just purchased a new Samsung notebook and installed Lion, and it ran like a charm. That notebook's now four years old and is now my sister's, and I currently have the Clevo/Sager notebook in my sig. It runs OS X Mavericks like a charm, and probably better and faster than even this year's MacBook Pros. All for less than US$1000 (as of now - I actually got it for quite a bit more). I shall add that it actually has three disk drives inside - two SSDs (one each for Windows and OS X) and one SATA HDD, as well as a 1080p screen in a 13.3" form factor.
Now, onto the topic of Yosemite itself.
My friend updated his MacBook Air to Mavericks, and he's been regretting it ever since. I have used it extensively too, and I strongly feel that Yosemite/iOS 8 have done Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall serious injustice, by moving away from so-called skeuomorphs and moving to "cleaner, brighter lines". The gradients, the glossy icons, the font - Apple ruined everything.
According to Apple's Human Interface Guidelines,
Is that meant to be some sort of joke? Helvetica is a terrible UI font - it is known fact that the best fonts for on-screen reading are monospaced, grotesque and serif fonts typically used for programming and development, such as Courier (New), Consolas, Lucida Console, Menlo, Inconsolata, Droid Sans Mono, etc. However, they won't look too neat for user interfaces, so we have to settle for second-best - boot out the monospace and serifs, but keep the grotesque/humanist look - you get something like Microsoft's Segoe UI, Ubuntu or Lucida Grande. I don't understand why Apple even decided to use Helvetica Neue as a system font at all - even on iOS. Now we have Xiaomi using Arial on MIUI (they already are ripping off Apple, why not rip off their font too?).
I wanted to try Yosemite on my own laptop, and installed it on an external drive to test. 1080p on a 13.3" screen already renders screen elements small - it's halfway between an ordinary screen and a true "HiDPI" screen. Yet I could see Lucida Grande very clearly at size 6 sitting fifty centimetres away from the screen. I could barely discern Yosemite's Helvetica at that distance.
Next, about the icons. The icons are ridiculously childish and sometimes even irritating. To illustrate exactly how simplistic (not simple - there's a big difference) the icons are, take Yosemite's Safari icon, for example:
I recreated this to ~90% accuracy in Adobe Illustrator in about an hour. Compare it to the intricate icon used in all previous OS X versions:
I could barely begin to think of recreating this - it was so detailed. The same applies to the iWork '09 icons, and in general, the old icon set. They had a feeling of class and professionalism that is missing in the new icon set. Who cares about gloss, faux leather and skeuomorphs? If young people remember a floppy drive as nothing but a 'save icon', then so be it - at least they associate it with saving a file. Change for the sake of change is terrible. I actually liked the Mountain Lion iCal and Contacts, with all the stitching and cool effects. No other UI had it and it didn't really distract from the content.
With Yosemite, all I see is white, white and more white. I personally preferred the neutral greys of Leopard - Mavericks. The new buttons (both toolbar and UI buttons) are a joke - they just spell flat with no life around them, not even a decent gradient. The translucency is just plain unnecessary - I don't want interactive elements to continuously change colour, like it has a case of digital schizophrenia.
I am a happy Mavericks hackintosher. Let's hope OS X 10.11 fixes some of this mess (probably not the UI - I'll have to live with it).
P.S. The latest Windows 10 build (10130) with new icons looks excellent, with a great combination of class and a look back to the old icon set:
The top row is Windows Vista/7/8/8.1, the middle row is the set of icons introduced in build 10074, and the last row is the most recent set of icons, as of build 10130. Although I like the top row the best, the last row looks clean, modern, consistent yet different enough (that isometric projection for all the icons is great), skeuomorphic and yet nice to look at. Apple should aim for this, not bright, cyan colours that burn retinas. I like the grainy dull blue folder icons used from Leopard to Mavericks. Why'd they change it and ruin it?
THANK YOU for such a very, very well done study and analysis. Your post is one for the books! Yes, Ive's boasting about what he did to OS X with Yosemite is exactly that - a very cruel joke!
I/we would appreciate it if you would post the most pertinent portions of your comment to Apple's feedback site listed in my signature below. (Naturally you should omit all your references to "Hackintoshing" but include all detail about the destruction of the look and feel of OS X by Yosemite.)
Best wishes to you!
Etan
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Unfortunately, trying to make the old, well respected OS conform to a bad design from iOS is a bad idea. iOS 7 had as many complaints as does Yosemite. iPhones sell because of contracts and contract prices. The screen on an iPhone is so small that even if the UI looks stupid most people are using apps full screen anyway so the pathetic and abysmal appearance of the operating system is hidden from them.
Now lets take a look at something that uses iOS 7 and newer but isn't usually tied to a contract - the iPad. How's that doing since Jony "improved" everything:
http://www.businessinsider.com/apples-ipad-sales-decline-again-2015-4
Now…let's see….can we correlate the decline of iPad sales with anything? Let's see. What happened a few years ago that would cause iPad sales to fall. By Jove!!! I think I got it!!!! iOS 7, was released making the once stylish and sophisticated looking iPad look like a cartoon platter for kiddies!!!
And this worked out so well, now do it the computers too!!
Apple had better wake up, IMHO.
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I actually went there first before posting a more detailed version here - since there is nearly no word limit on posts here.
I agree, Yosemite has the worst design ever. The whole purpose of flat design is to make information more readable and reduce everything that can distract. What've done Apple, completely opposite they made colors so bright that they always distract, they've made menu text and all text on that transparent areas really hard to read as background can change its brightness almost to dark while text color is always black. They put too many controls in window header, there is almost no space where I can drag window, you have to find it somewhere in corners. Full screen button really sucks. Generally speaking it's a huge step back for Apple, they just took good flat design trend and fully distorted main purposes of it.
It would be helpful if news sites covered the issue directly in headlines rather than just a bunch of users talking about it on forums Apple doesn't notice. Have you ever noticed how issues like antenna problems DO get noticed? That's because all the Apple news sites plaster it all over the front page. No one posts as front page news how horrible Yosemite is. They PRAISE Apple instead.
Well there is the US App Store, running about 50% approval for Yosemite. That's an F, they can't miss that.
People have made multiple polls and done numerous surveys, most of them say that the silent majority is fine with 10.10. I appreciate your problems with Yosemite, but that does not mean you can keep acting like Apple has to bend to your will.To those who thought Apple takes feedback serious: Keep On Dreaming.
El Capitan (do I take this name serious?) changes nothing regarding the interface we've complained about.
N_O_T_H_I_N_G
Z_I_L_C_H
Thanks Apple, I guess
That's a perfect example of a non sequitur!
If the majority is silent, then how can "most of them say" what they think or feel about Yosemite! With all due respect, that is a ridiculous assumption, if that is what polls and surveys are concluding about "the silent majority." The fact is that most people who own Apple computers trust Apple to do the right thing, and may be likely to do nothing about the problem, or feel helpless to deal with it, or only use their computers for short time periods each day which do not bring on the eyesight fatigue, or go buy a retina Mac. For those who use their Macs all day long in a work environment, this is a very serious, non-frivolous problem. Apple does not have to bend to their will, as you phrase it, but in the long term the consumer decides where to go and what to buy. And as also an Apple shareholder, that concerns me greatly.
The first time the phrase "the silent majority" was used was during the Viet Nam War, when the government argued that "the silent majority" was, by their silence, in favor of the war. History proved that argument, about how to translate silence, dead wrong when "the silent majority" silently voted on who to throw out and who to put in. Consumers vote on products by silently deciding which brands to buy or not buy, next time around.
Etan
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If asked, I would vote for simply changing the name of the existing thread, maybe toTime to start a "El Capitan looks terrible!" thread...
"Yosemite AND El Capitan look terrible."
I'd hate to lose all these erudite comments contributed by the vocal minority.
Etan
Surely Apple's sales would have decreased significantly if a significant portion of consumers had that problem?
Also, a 'silent majority', does not write/say their opinions. That is quite different from voting on a poll.
You can add to that those who have been deterred from downloading and Installing Yosemite precisely because of the massive complaints on this forum. That is a silent group which by definition is of unknown size, and of which I am just one. I've never seen its like before.
Way, way too soon to make that connection. I bought my latest Mac, a new Yosemite MBP a few months ago, expecting it would be as usable as the older MBP I was replacing. Instead, I had to spend many many hours trying to figure out how to overcome the work-destructive effects of Yosemite. Now I use it with numerous kludges, starting with the Schreiberstein Solution to restore a readable system font, followed by a long list of other changes which took time to research and try out. You think I want to go through this again with future purchases?
But your argument would count me and others who have had similar experiences with new purchases, as having endorsed Yosemite, because our purchases are included in the sales figures you refer to. Apple has betrayed the trust of many long time Mac users, whose purchases you propose counting as endorsements.
If Apple does not straighten this mess out, time will tell what it's effect will be on sales, but it is way too soon to use sales in support of the argument in defense of Yosemite.
Etan
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Looks like El Capitan is taking a turn for the better. I noticed immediately whilst sifting through new pages on Apple website that there's now a subtle shading to the previously white toolbar buttons. Although now search fields look even more like buttons...
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The new font looks better, but not as good as Lucida Grande. I'm still sticking to Mavericks since it works and looks perfectly fine and doesn't lag/crash/hang, not even on a hackintosh setup.
I wish Scott Forstall was never fired - his iOS and OS X UI were great. Now every time I look at pictures of Macs, I cringe. The aluminium exteriors simply don't match the user interface. Maybe the Bondi Blue iMac and all the plastic Power Macs and iMacs would look great with the cartoony feel of Yosemite/El Cap (terrible name, BTW - they should've used wild dogs instead - OS X Wolf?)
I wish Scott Forstall was never fired - his iOS and OS X UI were great. Now every time I look at pictures of Macs, I cringe. The aluminium exteriors simply don't match the user interface. Maybe the Bondi Blue iMac and all the plastic Power Macs and iMacs would look great with the cartoony feel of Yosemite/El Cap (terrible name, BTW - they should've used wild dogs instead - OS X Wolf?)
I have checked out the SF font in various El Cap screenshots and the font is too light. I thought for sure Apple would give us a bold option. This is maddening!
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