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Definitely wait until WWDC to buy a new MacBook Pro

J

jerryk

macrumors 604
Nov 3, 2011
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turbineseaplane said:
@jerryk

They listen. The entire Mac Pro situation is some of the most relevant and current information indicating that.

Additionally, there have been several anecdotes of bugs/issues/odd stuff getting discussed on tech podcasts that "mysteriously get fixed very quietly".

Do they guide their decisions based upon what the outside wants?
No - But they do know what people are saying and commenting about and the general feel of how things are being received and perceived, no question about it.
Click to expand...

The whole Mac Pro situation is because they do not listen. Again, they showed that they thought they could build something that looked cool (Not sure why Ive's though a trashcan is a good look?). No one was asking for the trashcan design. No one. The fact after 4+ years they are acknowledging it was a screw up is good, but guided by dying sales as users voted with their wallets. But had they listened, it would have never happened in the first place because the design would have been more up-gradable.

As far as bugs getting fixed, that is likely the individual team members hearing about some bug. I have worked as a developer at a number of major tech firms, and more often than not, you just fix things you hear about without being directed by your boss and slide it into the release. You write tests for your fix and it goes through the entire test cycle so it usually works out OK. That is why it "mysteriously gets fixed".
 
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fokmik

fokmik

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i think, those who want a 13" MBP, should buy now,or wait until fall.
because the 13" will be updated with CL in fall. I suppose the 15" would adopt CL too but the chips for that will be not ready until 2018 so Apple prefer to update now the 15" with KL
 
peraspera

peraspera

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Dec 17, 2016
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turbineseaplane said:
I am referring to the current aspect of the Mac Pro situation (fixing the blunder).
That shows some degree of listening at this point, wouldn't you say?
Click to expand...
Absolutely not.

My personal computers have all been Apples since the Apple ][ model. In all my interactions with Apple throughout the years I have never heard even the slightest hint that Apple pays attention to much of anything that goes on outside of Apple's physical walls to include their own Apple Discussions. Security issues would be the only significant exception to this that I've noticed.

What the press publishes does not seem to have any effect on design decisions nor what bugs get fixed. There had been vociferous complaints from MacPro users and the press since the trashcan's introduction yet Apple did absolutely nothing for years.

It has been nearly forever baked into Apple's culture to not announce products much ahead of releasem if at all, and not to apologize. There had to have been a major internal earthquake at Apple, unseen by the public, that rocked the highest levels of the executive suite to the core for them to have done both.

The timing of the unprecedented apology and MacPro announcement combo was on the heels of Q2 numbers. My guess would be that those numbers showed that the people that Apple considers to be their most powerful ecosystem influencers were either not purchasing the 2016 MacBook Pros or represented a high proportion of returns. WWDC will be the first indication we will have to see if Apple is serious about turning its non-listening culture on its head or if the blogger press "event" was a meaningless sop.
 
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turbineseaplane

turbineseaplane

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Mar 19, 2008
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Guys - We can debate about this all day and data either way is mostly heresay or speculation, so I'm not sure the point really.

Let's agree to disagree with our opinions on this one.
 
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R

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
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peraspera said:
Absolutely not.

My personal computers have all been Apples since the Apple ][ model. In all my interactions with Apple throughout the years I have never heard even the slightest hint that Apple pays attention to much of anything that goes on outside of Apple's physical walls to include their own Apple Discussions. Security issues would be the only significant exception to this that I've noticed.

What the press publishes does not seem to have any effect on design decisions nor what bugs get fixed. There had been vociferous complaints from MacPro users and the press since the trashcan's introduction yet Apple did absolutely nothing for years.

It has been nearly forever baked into Apple's culture to not announce products much ahead of releasem if at all, and not to apologize. There had to have been a major internal earthquake at Apple, unseen by the public, that rocked the highest levels of the executive suite to the core for them to have done both.

The timing of the unprecedented apology and MacPro announcement combo was on the heels of Q2 numbers. My guess would be that those numbers showed that the people that Apple considers to be their most powerful ecosystem influencers were either not purchasing the 2016 MacBook Pros or represented a high proportion of returns. WWDC will be the first indication we will have to see if Apple is serious about turning its non-listening culture on its head or if the blogger press "event" was a meaningless sop.
Click to expand...

you must have missed the part then where they mention they were hearing all the complaints......
 
Mr. Dee

Mr. Dee

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These mea culpa updates in recent times is just a sign that Apple is accepting the reality that they will sometimes miscalculate the market. Jonathan Ive is not a visionary, even though Steve Jobs designated him his spiritual soul mate. I would not want him to even attempt to become Jobs either. What is certainly missed is Jobs guidance and pragmatism over Ive. Some of Jobs misses themselves were like Ive's own decisions: G4 Cube, Hi-Fi stereo, iPhone 4 antennae-gate.

These past mistakes including ones like Mobile Me, Ping happened under Jobs and post Jobs decisions like the 2013 Mac Pro, iPhone bend gate and watchOS 1.0 are just a reality of what will happen at certain points. What I hope the company will understand is that insulating yourself in a post Jobs world is not necessarily the way to go.

When I look at products like the 12 inch MacBook and the 2016 MacBook Pro's I am seeing one persons narrow vision. Which for many might be great, but if Apple wants to remain relevant in a market that is now playing the same game and doing it mighty well I might add, they will need to adopt a new formula to product development.
 
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peraspera

peraspera

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Dec 17, 2016
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richinaus said:
you must have missed the part then where they mention they were hearing all the complaints......
Click to expand...

I've read the transcript several times, https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/t...-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/. The word "listening" appears exactly once regarding hardware. It's used only once again regarding Final Cut Pro X and that team had the wax blown out of their ears quite some time ago.

WWDC is the first opportunity that Apple will have to show that what they said was anything more than meaningless PR blather.
 
R

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
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Mr. Dee said:
These mea culpa updates in recent times is just a sign that Apple is accepting the reality that they will sometimes miscalculate the market. Jonathan Ive is not a visionary, even though Steve Jobs designated him his spiritual soul mate. I would not want him to even attempt to become Jobs either. What is certainly missed is Jobs guidance and pragmatism over Ive. Some of Jobs misses themselves were like Ive's own decisions: G4 Cube, Hi-Fi stereo, iPhone 4 antennae-gate.

These past mistakes including ones like Mobile Me, Ping happened under Jobs and post Jobs decisions like the 2013 Mac Pro, iPhone bend gate and watchOS 1.0 are just a reality of what will happen at certain points. What I hope the company will understand is that insulating yourself in a post Jobs world is not necessarily the way to go.

When I look at products like the 12 inch MacBook and the 2016 MacBook Pro's I am seeing one persons narrow vision. Which for many might be great, but if Apple wants to remain relevant in a market that is now playing the same game and doing it mighty well I might add, they will need to adopt a new formula to product development.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but what you have said is utter rubbish.

Its just that Steve Jobs never would admit he was wrong. There are loads of times he was, and also was responsible for all the failures you mention.

Accepting you make mistakes is fine as long as they are rectified.

I also don't really sea this as a 'mea culpa' in updating hardware at WWDC. The Kaby Lake chips weren't ready at launch and they saw an issue with the battery.

Also what is this amazing vision you want? I find the current line up fine, and when I see more 'innovative' products I do consider them, until I realise they aren't as good [portable / fast / well designed etc] as a MBP and iPad pro combo.
This is the Apple way and always has been.

Can you tell me in what areas are they irrelevant except for the Mac Pro which we all know was a mistake.

I suggest you read Walt Mossbergs final post on The Verge. It is very relevant to what is next and why innovation is in a lull right now, and we get small upgrades.
 
fokmik

fokmik

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yea, he is retire,so...he will not be here to see the AR and new Apple stuff. he is and old man who have seen a lot
[doublepost=1496302012][/doublepost]the people already asking him how much Apple payed him to write this....so this will never change, from the first mac, to the end of the Apple days, or our life's
 
J

jerryk

macrumors 604
Nov 3, 2011
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Last edited:
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maflynn

maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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turbineseaplane said:
Guys - We can debate about this all day and data either way is mostly heresay or speculation, so I'm not sure the point really.

Let's agree to disagree with our opinions on this one.
Click to expand...
I think its becoming more likely we'll see something. While when this thread started there was a definite lack of "chatter" on a new MBP but I think that chatter has become louder and more frequent. We'll see soon enough :)
 
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jcmendes

macrumors regular
Aug 22, 2012
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Portugal
I bought a macbook 15 " 1 month ago ... .will be replaced with a new one due to a problem in the lid closing ( a clik when 45º of closing all). Delivery date between 12 and 14 June. Can the macbook come with the refresh of the katy lake, if there is even refresh on June 5 for this machines. (there is no stock here in Portugal the 15" is 5-7 days to delivery)
 
Mr. Dee

Mr. Dee

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jcmendes said:
I bought a macbook 15 " 1 month ago ... .will be replaced with a new one due to a problem in the lid closing ( a clik when 45º of closing all). Delivery date between 12 and 14 June. Can the macbook come with the refresh of the katy lake, if there is even refresh on June 5 for this machines. (there is no stock here in Portugal the 15" is 5-7 days to delivery)
Click to expand...

You are get what you paid for. Apple is likely to refresh a fix with a brand new machine. They are different part numbers, SKU's.
 
Mr. Dee

Mr. Dee

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Aditya_S said:
Just bought a refurbished 13 inch MacBook Pro with the touchbar. Will I get price protection if they lower the price even more?
Click to expand...
You already bought it.
[doublepost=1496541388][/doublepost]
MrGuder said:
Right and they have also confirmed 32GB ram for the 15" will be interesting to know if that is available right away or later.
Click to expand...
I also notice the Foxxcon insider mentioned the glowing Apple logo is coming back in next years model.
 
A

Aditya_S

macrumors 6502a
Jan 25, 2016
500
111
Mr. Dee said:
You already bought it.
[doublepost=1496541388][/doublepost]
I also notice the Foxxcon insider mentioned the glowing Apple logo is coming back in next years model.
Click to expand...
Go to this page on Apple's website: https://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/sales-policies/retail_us.html
It states if Apple reduces the price within 14 days, I can call them or go to the Apple Store to get back how much more money I paid than the new price. I wasn't sure if it applied to refurbished Macs as I bought one on Friday.
 
Mr. Dee

Mr. Dee

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Aditya_S said:
Go to this page on Apple's website: https://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/sales-policies/retail_us.html
It states if Apple reduces the price within 14 days, I can call them or go to the Apple Store to get back how much more money I paid than the new price. I wasn't sure if it applied to refurbished Macs as I bought one on Friday.
Click to expand...
You can try your luck, but discussion regarding the 2017 MacBook Pro has been going on for weeks now. Why didn't you just wait until next week to see what would be released?
 
A

Aditya_S

macrumors 6502a
Jan 25, 2016
500
111
Mr. Dee said:
You can try your luck, but discussion regarding the 2017 MacBook Pro has been going on for weeks now. Why didn't you just wait until next week to see what would be released?
Click to expand...
I needed it for a specific purpose before WWDC which was really important.
 
M

MrGuder

macrumors 68040
Nov 30, 2012
3,049
2,024
The Foxxcon insider was also asked if MagSafe will return and they replied yes and then were asked when. They said it is being tested now so 12-18 months.

So it looks like MagSafe will return using USB-C maybe in 2018 or early 2019 models.
 
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