Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

[Michael Goff]

Which device was he making fun of? I think the worst offenders were the windows mobile phones, but that was a bit overstated IMO as you could do many of the styli functions with key combinations, such as closing an app, you were not necessarily stuck with using the stylus on the tiny little X in the corner.

But yeah I think we've established that Jobs was essentially right in terms of not being forced to use a stylus to navigate the UI, definitely agree. But at the same time he may have been wrong in not including the option, although that's very opinionated and obviously the sales numbers favor him. But how do we know that if Apple had a stylus on the first iPhone it wouldn't have become a must have feature on all smartphones like some of the original iPhones features have become.

I forget which it exactly was, but it was Windows Mobile. I do remember that.

 

[sickducker]

For the average user, Steve was correct about the stylus. For students and dedicated note takers, Steve was wrong. For artists and professionals, Steve was wrong.

The question isn't, "Should Apple's iDevices incorporate a stylus?". The question should be, "Is Apple's focus on the average user or the professional/student?". The issue of a stylus depends on the answer to the above question.

When I look around the industrial design facility there are many sketchers and notetakers, but I haven't seen anyone using a stylus yet. Most of them are Moleskine users. So for how many people can the stylus replace fancy drawing pencils? To me the stylus seems to satisfy a niche of a niche.

 

[phillytim]

There is no need to bulk up the mass of a phone/tablet for everyone with a stylus hole.

Android or iOS devices - If you need a stylus, then buy a stylus and get the appropriate apps that you wish to use that stylus for.

There's nothing to stop you from personalizing whatever your device is in any way you wish.

 

[mrex]

it isnt just a pen! the difference starts from the device itself - does it have components to support the pen or not. if you want stylus, yes you can buy it, but they all are crappy..

for example, the pen that comes with Note, works with the screen technology behind. without the technology built in the device, the pen would be just an ordinary crappy stylus. iphone/ipads lack this kind of technology. E.g. Note serie has wacom digitizer technology built inside.

http://www.howtogeek.com/177376/not...ual-capacitive-wacom-and-bluetooth-explained/

 

[cracksoup]

There is no need to bulk up the mass of a phone/tablet for everyone with a stylus hole.

Android or iOS devices - If you need a stylus, then buy a stylus and get the appropriate apps that you wish to use that stylus for.

There's nothing to stop you from personalizing whatever your device is in any way you wish.

Except it doesn't bulk up the phone.. It's 8,5mm thin. The Nexus 6 is 10mm thin and it doesn't have a stylus. The aftermarket stuff is never any good. It's thanks to the S pen and wacom digitizer that the Note series are getting praised. It works like pen and paper (I say this out of experience). I use the pen once every other day and every time I do I just love the accuracy and features that come with it.

 

[phillytim]

I'd much rather have the internal space filled up with battery for more usable life per day than a stylus hole that a minority of people use taking away my battery resources.

Except if doesn't bulk up the phone.. It's 8,5mm thin. The Nexus 6 is 10mm thin and it doesn't have a stylus. The aftermarket stuff is never any good. It's thanks to the S pen and wacom digitizer that the Note series are getting praised. It works like pen and paper (I say this out of experience). I use the pen once every other day and every time I do I just love the accuracy and features that come with it.

 

[Arran]

I agree that a stylus is good for students/note takers and artist types, but are those people really getting that kind of use with it on their phone? A tablet I could see, but even with the larger phones right now using a stylus still seems very impractical.

I agree with you. A stylus is not for everyone. I can see it being another option added to the current lineup of pointing devices: Magic Trackpad, Magic Mouse, Magic Pen (wand? ). Appropriate for a large-screen ipad, but not intended for pocketable devices like phones.

And remember that Steve's disparaging comment, "Who needs styluses? Ugh!", was referring to Phones.

When he said that (at the original iPhone launch) the iPad hadn't even been announced. Context is important.

 

[cracksoup]

I'd much rather have the internal space filled up with battery for more usable life per day than a stylus hole that a minority of people use taking away my battery resources.

There isn't any compromise, that's the thing. Do you think a 3220maH battery is too small? Then you'll be the first one.

I could use the exact same argument about the iPhone 6 Plus but i would bet that you don't agree with me about that one. The iPhone is just too thin, why? Because it drastically punishes battery life. They could've made their phone 8,5 thin as well and have 2 days of battery life, but no. Apple likes giving their customers bent phones and paper cuts.

 

[phillytim]

You're not getting it. I wouldn't use a stylus and any empty hole (even if it has a stylus in there, I consider it empty because I wouldn't use it) in my phone and I would curse that hole because they have taken away a sliver of battery resources for it.

Your feelings on Apple phones are purely subjective and that of your own. Just like my feelings about stylus.

I will add and retrofit my phone with a stylus if I ever would need one; since most people don't use or have use of a stylus, I do not want manufacturers taking away precious battery resources in order to fit an empty hole in my phone.

PERIOD.

There isn't any compromise, that's the thing. Do you think a 3220maH battery is too small? Then you'll be the first one.

I could use the exact same argument about the iPhone 6 Plus but i would bet that you don't agree with me about that one. The iPhone is just too thin, why? Because it drastically punishes battery life. They could've made their phone 8,5 thin as well and have 2 days of battery life, but no. Apple likes giving their customers bent phones and paper cuts.

 

[cracksoup]

You're not getting it. I wouldn't use a stylus and any empty hole (even if it has a stylus in there, I consider it empty because I wouldn't use it) in my phone and I would curse that hole because they have taken away a sliver of battery resources for it.

Your feelings on Apple phones are purely subjective and that of your own. Just like my feelings about stylus.

I will add and retrofit my phone with a stylus if I ever would need one; since most people don't use or have use of a stylus, I do not want manufacturers taking away precious battery resources in order to fit an empty hole in my phone.

PERIOD.

In the same way that I don't want manufacturers to make so thin phones that there won't fit a proper battery in it.

My feelings about apple are that they make great products, I use my iPad Air to write this and my MacBook Air is on the table in front of me. But there isn't any compelling reason to why you would make a phone that thin. However, the stylus may be completely useless to you, but many people use it once in a while and the fact that the phone has such a big battery already (outclassing most of its competitors) makes it absolutely okay for most people that the phone has a little hole.

I do get it, you wouldn't use it, so you don't have to buy it. The beautiful thing about android is that you can choose if you want a fat phone with loads of battery. Not the case with iPhones sadly.

 

[phillytim]

I'm talking about ANY phone. You're still not getting it.

The question is if Steve Jobs was wrong about stylus' or not. My answer is YES and that one can outfit their phone with a stylus & apps if they want it.

But manufacturers don't have to take away other precious resources or space in a phone from everyone for the select minority of people who do find stylii useful.

There is no other debate to my point, and I will no longer debate your subjective desire. You are trying to make this into an Apple vs. Android matter and it's not. I feel this way about ANY phone, Android or not.

PERIOD.

In the same way that I don't want manufacturers to make so thin phones that there won't fit a proper battery in it.

My feelings about apple are that they make great products, I use my iPad Air to write this and my MacBook Air is on the table in front of me. But there isn't any compelling reason to why you would make a phone that thin. However, the stylus may be completely useless to you, but many people use it once in a while and the fact that the phone has such a big battery already (outclassing most of its competitors) makes it absolutely okay for most people that the phone has a little hole.

I do get it, you wouldn't use it, so you don't have to buy it. The beautiful thing about android is that you can choose if you want a fat phone with loads of battery. Not the case with iPhones sadly.

 

[Markyboy81]

it isnt just a pen! the difference starts from the device itself - does it have components to support the pen or not. if you want stylus, yes you can buy it, but they all are crappy..

for example, the pen that comes with Note, works with the screen technology behind. without the technology built in the device, the pen would be just an ordinary crappy stylus. iphone/ipads lack this kind of technology. E.g. Note serie has wacom digitizer technology built inside.

http://www.howtogeek.com/177376/not...ual-capacitive-wacom-and-bluetooth-explained/

People just can't seem to grasp this can they?

 

[cracksoup]

I'm talking about ANY phone. You're still not getting it.

The question is if Steve Jobs was wrong about stylus' or not. My answer is YES and that one can outfit their phone with a stylus & apps if they want it.

But manufacturers don't have to take away other precious resources or space in a phone from everyone for the select minority of people who do find stylii useful.

There is no other debate to my point, and I will no longer debate your subjective desire. You are trying to make this into an Apple vs. Android matter and it's not. I feel this way about ANY phone, Android or not.

PERIOD.

Where is one supposed to carry his aftermarket stylus? It will probably break in the pocket. You're arguing for bad design in the Note series. Samsung did this to make people use the stylus again and they did so successfully. You don't like it, don't buy it.

You don't replace the S pen which is specifically made for the Note series in every detail with an aftermarket stylus with bad accuracy. The difference is huge, and you won't understand it until you've actually used one.

I'm not making it an Apple vs android argument, but I'm talking about reality, which you seem to avoid. Apple gives us no choice but to make us buy thin phones with bad battery life. Samsung gives us the Note series if we want, but there is the S series for the average consumer. I bring this to the table because you seem to make it look like the Note series is made for everyone. It isn't. It's made for people who want the S pen, big display and productivity features.

 

[spinedoc77]

There is no need to bulk up the mass of a phone/tablet for everyone with a stylus hole.

Android or iOS devices - If you need a stylus, then buy a stylus and get the appropriate apps that you wish to use that stylus for.

There's nothing to stop you from personalizing whatever your device is in any way you wish.

I've never understood this argument. Look at the Note 4, it's almost as thin as the iPhone 6 plus yet still has a built I stylus. It's all about choices, and I'd rather have the choice to have a stylus even if I only used it occasionally, than not have one, especially when it comes at no cost such as weight, thickness, expense, etc.

 

[jamezr]

I've never understood this argument. Look at the Note 4, it's almost as thin as the iPhone 6 plus yet still has a built I stylus. It's all about choices, and I'd rather have the choice to have a stylus even if I only used it occasionally, than not have one, especially when it comes at no cost such as weight, thickness, expense, etc.

Exactly...the S-Pen comes at no expense to size and weight or design. Use it or not use it.....but it is another very useful option....

 

[maflynn]

"No one is going to buy a big phone." - Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs also didn't think multitasking was needed, or that a full fledged app store was needed. He was a master marketeer, and he was always promoting his products and showing why the competition got it wrong.

Yet, when apple saw an advantage, they added the feature, regardless of how they criticized it previously.

As for the stylus, while the Note series phones got it right imo, I don't think its really needed and I can guarantee that I'd lose that little bugger. I'm glad the iPhone doesn't have one

 

[spinedoc77]

Where is one supposed to carry his aftermarket stylus? It will probably break in the pocket. You're arguing for bad design in the Note series. Samsung did this to make people use the stylus again and they did so successfully. You don't like it, don't buy it.

You don't replace the S pen which is specifically made for the Note series in every detail with an aftermarket stylus with bad accuracy. The difference is huge, and you won't understand it until you've actually used one.

I'm not making it an Apple vs android argument, but I'm talking about reality, which you seem to avoid. Apple gives us no choice but to make us buy thin phones with bad battery life. Samsung gives us the Note series if we want, but there is the S series for the average consumer. I bring this to the table because you seem to make it look like the Note series is made for everyone. It isn't. It's made for people who want the S pen, big display and productivity features.

Exactly. Having the pen inside the phone is HUGE, it is always with you when you need it. I think a good analogy is a phone camera, sure you can get a much nicer dedicated camera but which camera will always be with you?

Having a SP3 I feel the pain of not having a pen silo, I often find myself without the stylus or in danger of losing this $50 accessory, it was a piss poor decision by Microsoft.

I still cannot understand eschewing a feature that comes at no cost. Some say they would never use a stylus, but they should give it a chance and would probably find they would work it into their day in some way. Throwing away a method of communication and record keeping that was invented thousands of years ago seems very short sighted to me.

----------

Steve Jobs also didn't think multitasking was needed, or that a full fledged app store was needed. He was a master marketeer, and he was always promoting his products and showing why the competition got it wrong.

Yet, when apple saw an advantage, they added the feature, regardless of how they criticized it previously.

As for the stylus, while the Note series phones got it right imo, I don't think its really needed and I can guarantee that I'd lose that little bugger. I'm glad the iPhone doesn't have one

Don't forget about copy and paste. I suppose we can add the notification panel to that list as well.

 

[Oohara]

I really don't mean to offend anyone by this, but I am amazed that this discussion is still going on. Can you guys really see Apple adding a stylus, ever?? I mean from a pure brand/style perspective. No matter how useful a stylus can be - it'd just bring all the wrong associations for an iOS device and additionally it'd look way too much like admitting that Samsung was right about something. They might as well add a Thinkpad-style TrackPoint to the middle of their MBP keyboards...

 

[rrl]

IMO the most important reason for Jobs to not implement a stylus was - style*. Steve had many qualities obviously but I think where his genius shone the brightest was in brand management. Being cool and not catering to the stereotypical PC nerd was and is the life blood of Apple's brand. And what is the stylus if not the ultimate symbol of a bonafide PC dork? Especially a few years ago...as I honestly think Samsung is starting to get somewhere with legitimising the stylus for the modern day user.

But yeah, for Jobs, the stylus would simply have been the ultimate turnoff of a feature to garnish the iPhone with. From a brand psychology perspective. iPhone and consequently Apple would have been less confident as a brand if he had implemented it, no matter what practical use it makes possible beyond just good programming and a finger. Maybe it's a detail but its symbolic meaning is huge. ** And I'm willing to bet that a stylus is right at the top of Apple's "What Steve told us to never ever do, no matter how often he himself would screw us over by changing his mind - implement one of these things and Phil Schiller will literally sit on your face and that's something you really don't want"-list. And they'd do well to keep it there forever IMO.

* sorry that looks like a weird pun or something, I wasn't trying to be clever I swear

** sorry about those two lines

You're right. The discussion could easily have ended with your other post. Apple always trips over their hubris.

And again, Steve was so wrong about styli and phones. The Note 4 should be renamed "Steve, You Were So Wrong."

 

[jamezr]

I really don't mean to offend anyone by this, but I am amazed that this discussion is still going on. Can you guys really see Apple adding a stylus, ever?? I mean from a pure brand/style perspective. No matter how useful a stylus can be - it'd just bring all the wrong associations for an iOS device and additionally it'd look way too much like admitting that Samsung was right about something. They might as well add a Thinkpad-style TrackPoint to the middle of their MBP keyboards...

Yep.....not ever gonna happen.

 

[appleii.c]

I really don't mean to offend anyone by this, but I am amazed that this discussion is still going on. Can you guys really see Apple adding a stylus, ever?? I mean from a pure brand/style perspective. No matter how useful a stylus can be - it'd just bring all the wrong associations for an iOS device and additionally it'd look way too much like admitting that Samsung was right about something. They might as well add a Thinkpad-style TrackPoint to the middle of their MBP keyboards...

Can we start a new thread? That TrackPoint... its a great idea! Can you imagine how much more productive we'd be with one of those right there when we are typing? If you don't like it, don't use it. But its there for those that do!

</sarcasm>

 

[wrightc23]

I can only speak personally, but I own a Note 3 and a Surface Pro 3 both have about as good a stylus integration as is currently available. The Surface Pro 3 integration is very effective with OneNote.

I rarely use either.

 

[Oohara]

Can we start a new thread? That TrackPoint... its a great idea! Can you imagine how much more productive we'd be with one of those right there when we are typing? If you don't like it, don't use it. But its there for those that do!

</sarcasm>

Lol. Let's make it a glowing mini-apple too.... Hey, they could call it the iCore

Nah, but in all seriousness what I'm saying is that Jobs was right not to implement a stylus, as it would have damaged the brand. Any general statements that he then made about styli are completely irrelevant - he just said what was necessary to support the brand philosophy. And the brand hasn't changed in any way which would make a stylus a real alternative for an iOS device today.

With that said - I think the S Pen on the Note is awesome and can be very useful indeed. (Just making sure I don't come off as a Samsung/Note hater here...) It just doesn't belong in an iOS device.

Big phones on the other hand, I don't think he was wrong to dismiss them either - at the time. But obviously those times have changed and there Apple could hop aboard the train without sacrificing their cool.

 

[appleii.c]

Lol. Let's make it a glowing mini-apple too.... Hey, they could call it the iCore

Nah, but in all seriousness what I'm saying is that Jobs was right not to implement a stylus, as it would have damaged the brand. Any general statements that he then made about styli are completely irrelevant - he just said what was necessary to support the brand philosophy. And the brand hasn't changed in any way which would make a stylus a real alternative for an iOS device today.

With that said - I think the S Pen on the Note is awesome and can be very useful indeed. (Just making sure I don't come off as a Samsung/Note hater here...) It just doesn't belong in an iOS device.

Big phones on the other hand, I don't think he was wrong to dismiss them either - at the time. But obviously those times have changed and there Apple could hop aboard the train without sacrificing their cool.

iCore.. that's awesome!

I know you aren't a Samsung/Note hater. I've seen you on the android threads. I actually agree with you. I dont think the built in stylus is very Apple. Now as I've said earlier in this thread, I would welcome the technology, and simply allow the user to purchase their own stylus. And as far as Steve's comments on ANYTHING, people need to realize, he was trying to sell HIS product. I wouldn't expect any praise for something they didn't have or wasn't in the immediate pipeline.

 

[jamezr]

Lol. Let's make it a glowing mini-apple too.... Hey, they could call it the iCore

That right there was funny!