Very sad: Ventura is a steaming hot mess of 💩

[GO_ICONIC]

 

[pshufd]

View attachment 2108065

I prefer the highway.

 

[chevyboy60013]

Sorry but he has no credibility by using the word "Winblows". To use such a word tells me the individual lacks the maturity to provide a rational argument. If he has issues with Windows then he should, as requested, state what they are without hyperbole ("blowing up" and "severe mass destruction").

Windows isn't without its issues but I use it almost every single day without issue. In fact I can't recall the last time I had an issue with it.



Mainframes are multi-million dollar systems which, at least at the time, had considerably more resources (processing power, memory, disk, etc.) then a garden variety PC. DOS's origins are for hardware with drastically lower computing power. Thus Seattle Computer Products (the origins of DOS) and later Microsoft had to make scarifies in its design.

For example processors lacked the necessary hardware to provide proper memory protection. 64KB, the starting point for the original PC, was quite constraining. Then there was the design of the PC itself. The ISA bus with its IRQs, COM ports, and DMA channel conflicts are essentially impossible for an OS to address. These issues didn't exist on mainframe computers because IBM did a proper design on them, unlike the PC.

Once computing power increased to the point where it could support proper memory protection and the legacy ISA bus was jettisoned the software side of the ecosystem was well entrenched. Microsoft could just discard like OS/2 attempted to do. Like it or not backwards compatibility was key to Microsoft's success.

But that's all in the past now. Today's systems and Windows versions are stable and reliable. Are they mainframe levels? Certainly not, but then they don't cost a million dollars and require dedicated IT support either.



I can't comment on Venture as the goal of my even being in this thread was to read about problems people may be having before I upgrade my Studio. However, when I see a comment where someone says Windows constantly "blowing up" and "severe mass destruction" I have to ask what the issue is that they're experiencing that leads to such statements.

I have NEVER had any serious issues, freezing, not responding, getting painfully slow, having to be restored at least weekly, WITH ANY MACOS VERSION INCLUDING VENTURA. Also run absolutely no form of security suite at all even though it is used for company work as well.

 

[m1maverick]

I have NEVER had any serious issues, freezing, not responding, getting painfully slow, having to be restored at least weekly, WITH ANY MACOS VERSION INCLUDING VENTURA. Also run absolutely no form of security suite at all even though it is used for company work as well.

Sounds just like my experience with Windows. Windows has come a long way since 1995. Perhaps your arguments against Windows could too?

 

[jgbr]

I am starting to wonder if it is a bad release of this is the normal pre .1 issues....

It's definitely got issues but seems very snappy and responsive.

 

[pshufd]

I am starting to wonder if it is a bad release of this is the normal pre .1 issues....

It's definitely got issues but seems very snappy and responsive.

A major release a year is a pretty fast pace for development. Fortunately most have the option to stay on the previous release which is typically more stable. Those without options are those that buy new hardware after the macOS release.

 

[jgbr]

Yes I'll sound like a broken record but I long for when OSX released with 2-3 years between them. I think 3yrs would be a good goal with 'major service packs'...

 

[chevyboy60013]

I do not see any of the issues you all say that you see. Ventura is rock solid on both of my laptops, my m1 MacBook Air and my unsupported early 2015 MacBook Air.

 

[pshufd]

I do not see any of the issues you all say that you see. Ventura is rock solid on both of my laptops, my m1 MacBook Air and my unsupported early 2015 MacBook Air.

I have not had any problems with Ventura on my M1 mini, M1 MacBook Pro 16 and M1 Studio.

But a look through the threads indicates that many people are having problems.

I had about 5 major problems when Monterey launched (memory leaks, external monitors, network issues) and those were resolved by 12.6 - I just had to live with two of them for a long time. So my impression is that Ventura is a lot better than Monterey. But all software, except the most trivial, has bugs. It's just a matter of degree and whichever you happen to have a problem with.

 

[jgbr]

I think for the 'seasoned and experienced Mac warriors' waiting until a .1 for a serious work machine is a must and they know this. Else try it on a back up machine or even stay a version behind (12.6.1) as it is now.

 

[pshufd]

I think for the 'seasoned and experienced Mac warriors' waiting until a .1 for a serious work machine is a must and they know this. Else try it on a back up machine or even stay a version behind (12.6.1) as it is now.

I used to wait a year before upgrading a production machine. If you earn a living with your Mac, then it really helps to have more than one machine to test with.

Edit: It can be a low-end cheap or used machine too. As long as it is able to run your production software so that you can test on it. The standard approach in IT is to test on a backup machine for some period of time or shut down and test over a long weekend and then decide whether to go back or go live with the new.

 

[fisherking]

this year, whining about ventura. last year, monterey. it's been like this with each new OS release, and will, sadly, continue.

of course there are issues, bugs... there are always bugs. but whining accomplishes nothing.

this is a great forum (outside of the whining); lots of reasonable discussions, competing points-of-view, and... ppl helping each other with issues. anyway, we'll repeat the whole thing with the next OS. should be fun! 🤣

 

[jgbr]

this year, whining about ventura. last year, monterey. it's been like this with each new OS release, and will, sadly, continue.

of course there are issues, bugs... there are always bugs. but whining accomplishes nothing.

this is a great forum (outside of the whining); lots of reasonable discussions, competing points-of-view, and... ppl helping each other with issues. anyway, we'll repeat the whole thing with the next OS. should be fun! 🤣

....or a concerning trend....come 'rot setting in'.

 

[fisherking]

....or a concerning trend....come 'rot setting in'.

yep, same 'trend' every year...

 

[PsykX]

Yes, so far has not been a good upgrade for me. Apple's software quality is going downhill. It's like they hired all those Microsoft engineers, this is why I switched from Windows to macOS back then.

My problem : I was unable to log into my iCloud account, even though my password is correct.

I tried a few things : reboot, log out/log back in, reinstall... nothing would do.
This install was almost fresh, I didn't add much to it, and it's an M1 iMac. So modern hardware.

Solution : I needed to create a new account and move everything to the new account.

Now it works... so far.

 

[er-minio]

As I explained in another thread... this is on me for being stupid and upgrading on day one my main Mac. But, to be fair I can live with some bugs, but this was some of the worst releases I've seen in years.
Mac mini Intel.

– USB speed issues causing audio problems on a Logitech Streamcam that is now close to unusable
– sudden kernel panics when the computer is sleeping (again this could be due to USB issues it seems)
– system freezing randomly, seems where there is a slightly higher GPU load (I have an eGPU, this can be due to GPU support, drivers I guess)
– upon restart after crashing, the computer most times doesn't see the eGPU correctly, waste of time (multiple logins/cable swaps/restarts) ensue

To this day, I still have to prevent the computer from sleeping to keep it "alive".
For the last week I resorted to using the laptop (M1, Monterey) as my main machine.

In the same way as ylluminate, saying that my frustration level is over 9,000 would be underestimating the problem (there's been a lot of swearing as well ).

I'm currently trying to sort out with Apple Support the slower USB bus issue.
Have a new Mac on the way, hope it comes with Monterey

 

[ylluminate]

We're just going to keep our dozen workstations on Monterey until macOS 14 is released. Skipping "13" is a good call with the given experiences - if not the "unlucky" number alone... 😆

 

[Geoff777]

I normally wait but decided to download because I like the updated look of settings and really like the updated Spotlight which is going to be really useful.
Went well, no heart-stopping moments.

Initial impressions - just fine. Don't know where this "Passkeys" thing is, still looking. Stage Manager is a waste of time, hogs screen space and I am happier collapsing live apps into the Dock.
I do like the updated Settings but don't know why you can't change window size laterally.
No issues with any installed apps so far.
As usual, a lot of hype for small tweaks. Except for Spotlight which is now greatly improved.
Oh, and Sidecar works well now!

EDIT - forgot to mention, using the phone as a camera works, but I won't use it. It's too zoomed in compared to the field of view on the iMac.

 

[jgbr]

I still cant believe they wasted keynote time on half of it. A service pack to an OS would have done most of it.

 

[sine_sine]

Well folks, just wanted to relate some experiences I've had in my small foray into Ventura and am done with this iteration of the OS it appears. A few major halting / critical points on an M1 Max system (also, just to be clear, I'm not a novice user - I've been a goto guy that has helped Apple "Geniuses" over the years when they can't figure things out) :

1. Be aware that the upgrade can seriously fail. I tried both 13.0 and 13.1 beta. The system, while performing an upgrade, had an infinite Apple logo reboot loop that went into recovery mode after several reboot attempts. I went through several troubleshooting steps that I won't document here. USB backups don't boot so the recovery process is HORRIFIC now for Apple. Removing the ability to boot to USB drives is a nightmare level mistake by Apple. I do not trust Apple whatsoever anymore, even though their brand of OS is still the lesser of the proverbial "poisons" yet still (not a compliment, just an observation).
2. Installed from scratch, but restore of previous system settings failed for some various obscure/unclear reasons. This situation descended into chaos when I found that the Recovery tool no longer worked and no associated tools work. This mode also incorrectly detected my system volume as being encrypted and no usernames or passwords that are system admins/owners would actually authenticate with the actually correct password. Things are seriously broken when they break with the recovery situation.
3. My Time Machine backup did not work properly. It was detected and all seemed well with it, but the system, again, for some obscure and non-clear reason, failed to use it. I had to use a secondary backup made with Super Duper, BUT that was a ridiculous process. It took 30 hours to restore the 7tb+ of data.
4. APFS Snapshots are a steaming mess. Apple is not using APFS snapshots properly / appropriately; I could not rollback on the upgrade system to to Monterey. This is an enormous problem and oversight / missed opportunity by Apple and is truly baffling. I've had some people who know the internal goings on at Apple express extreme frustration for not only the missed opportunity with ZFS, but now the problems of APFS not being used properly. A truly incredible situation.
5. When I played with the fresh install I found that some things were really screwed up. For example:
   • Stage Manager is trash for anyone with more than one display. The only useful way to use macOS is still with extended displays and WITHOUT separate Spaces for each display. Apple does not allow Stage Manager to even work with the extended displays situation and frankly Stage Manager simply has little to no value even if you intend to use it for focused mode when you require any other monitors.
   • The new system Settings is enormously impotent and foreign. They really didn't think this through fully and are missing a lot of functionality. They should have, at the very least, provided BOTH methods of configuration since the new Settings app also feels enormously disorganized and even searching for features is not immediately fruitful. It's simply not ready for primetime usage - not to mention that it just doesn't fit UX parameters for non-iPhone/iPad usage.
   • An Asus monitor that works perfectly on Monterey and is identical to a second monitor on the system does not allow for recognition of full resolution at the correct refresh rate when used with a DisplayPort adapter. HDMI works, but then macOS continues to have the monitor schizophrenia problem where it can't determine which monitor is which when they have the same model number (no fault of Apple per se), but the resolution + refresh situation IS faultable to Apple.

I could go on about various other points and problems, but I just don't have any more time and my frustration level is over 9,000.

Full recovery to Monterey was a painful process. Due to some fashion in which Ventura screwed up the recovery partition and so forth, reinstallation required erasure of the ENTIRE drive, network access (sadly I had to authenticate my machine with Apple, which is ridiculous and scary in and of itself and should not be required), and then downloading of Monterey again... Plus a 30 hour Migration step.

I will not be moving this machine to Ventura and Apple has very much dropped a significant level in terms of trust for our company. We have several Apple Silicon machines now that we are worried about in terms of the future and Apple's clear inability to make good decisions and lacking of actual quality assurance processes.

To boot, their Feedback / RADAR system has been very poor over the last couple years too. Apple's support/engineering department has been abysmal in responding to many and various reports. Someone needs to pull them out of the swirling toilet basin desperately before they are simply no different than Microsoft.

It's been complete garbage for me to; copied all of my calendar events, 30 entries for each one, and they run every day, so every day is bob's birthday, and every day I have to do xyz or whatever the task is. Worst update ever, and the Apple "genuis'" are horrible, just horrible

 

[memo90061]

How's Ventura on the iMac Pro?

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

On my Mac Studio with a Dell 32 inch it's just fine.
No freezes or kernel panics and the correct resolutions on my display.
And I am happy with some of the new features.

 

[canadianpj]

Ventura running on an M2 Macbook Air with no issues and my work computer is a 2019 Macbook Pro. No issues with 13.0 update and no issues with the 13.0.1. I think it's important to note because YOU had problems (no doubt there) not everyone is going to have those issues.

Take the standard precautions when updating (backup, backup, backup) and go for it.

 

[Slimmyhendrix]

I am still confused why Apple has moved to yearly OS overhauls. I ran High Sierra for like 4 years with no issues and ever since Mojave it's been a **** show with the OS releases. At least Big Sur has become stable enough for little or no issues.

 

[Cave Man]

Jumping in on this. Ventura is a fsking hot mess. For the second time, trying to update my M1 mini from earlier Ventura install to the current version has borked the computer. I have been using Apple computers since the early 1990s and none of the OSs have been as sh!++y as Ventura. Now I am going to have to do a complete fresh reinstall of the OS and then copy files from the slow-a$$ Time Machine volume (because it's in APFS) that will take more than a day at USB3 speed.

The race to the bottom is continuing at Apple and it stupid integration with iOS.